friendly challenge

another interesting TFT newsletter

Quote :

Hi Richie Say a man approaches you on the street with a proposition: "See that guy over there?" He indicates a big, strapping fellow, his 6'4" frame enrobed in 300 lbs. of muscle. "He's coming over here to wrestle you to the ground and choke you out for a million dollars. If you can pin him instead, I'll give you the million." "B-but," you stammer, "I don't want to wrestle him!" The man sniffs. "Doesn't matter -- he wants the million. Here he comes -- best of luck!" How does it feel to suddenly have this contest thrust upon you? To have to worry about your performance, and how it will stack up to his experience level? For all you know, he could be very good at wrestling -- and even if you, yourself, are no slouch in the ring, he's clearly way outside your weight class. And much, much stronger.

As he begins to sprint toward you, you notice he's a lot faster, too. How's it feel now? Let's try a different tack: Same set up, except the man says, "All you have to do is touch him, and I'll give you the million instead." Feel any different? How about if we qualify that touch a bit -- "All you have to do is break something inside of him." And you'll get the million. In the first case, the contest is sprung upon you, you're not prepared, you're being asked to compete with the man's physical size and athletic ability. You're being asked to perform at a level most of us can't reach. You're being asked to compete in such a way that is clearly unfair, and puts you at a disadvantage. We could just as easily set up a scenario where you are suddenly tasked with debating international monetary policy, before an audience, with someone who may or may not be a Nobel laureate in economics. We've all got the basic tools, the components to compete in such a contest -- we can speak out loud, we have experience with finances and money in general -- and yet, the idea makes me sweat. Most of us can expect to get hammered and humiliated, everything we say twisted back on us with a sneer and derisive laughter from the audience. In the second case where, "All you have to do is touch him," there is no performance pressure -- we can all reach out and touch the guy, even if he wants to wrestle us. In fact, there's really no way you can lose -- how can he wrestle you down & choke you out without you touching him at some point? It's so simple it's ridiculous. And sure, that "touch" can easily be used to break something inside of him, as in the slightly more difficult scenario. We all know he can't successfully wrestle you without you crushing his groin or gouging an eye at some point. Everything he would want to do just pulls you in nice and close to those delicate anatomical features. Another easy win. All of the above highlights another distinct difference between competition and violence -- that impending competition brings with it performance anxiety as you realize you will be required to pit your skill against unknown thresholds (what if he's the better wrestler? or speaker?). It's the worry that your meager skills will be outclassed. When we remove the competition and go instead to a win condition that is not dependent on unknown thresholds

(i.e., nothing about the other guy factors into the equation) there is no dread or anxiety. Now, I know what you're thinking -- what about performance anxiety around getting violence done? Well, how anxious did you feel about merely touching the guy, above? Really? Outside of counting coup, did your anxiety increase when it was qualified as causing an injury ("...break something inside of him.")? If the answer is yes, then YOU'RE STILL LOOKING AT VIOLENCE AS COMPETITION. Violence, as the absence of competition, has no performance anxiety component. It really is just touching, if we mean it in the same way that we would smash a soda can flat, or slam a car door, or break a stick on the curb. The physics and biomechanics involved are all the same. Any considerations beyond that are imaginary. Hang ups, if you will. As with pretty much everything in this work, the solution is mat time. It's the second best place to learn that competition has nothing to do with anything in violence, that size, speed and strength have no bearing on who wins and who dies. Those who still view violence as a form of competition, a high-stakes one, act hesitantly on the mats; they keep their distance (even when they think they're penetrating), flinch, hide and otherwise give poor reactions, and rarely employ bodyweight.

They behave as if they are fundamentally frightened of what's going on. Which they are. Those who have figured it out by physically burning the idea out of their heads with hours of mat time throw themselves into the work with great relish, applying themselves bodily to every problem presented them. The physical realization that violence is about a failure to compete, an end-run around competition, is liberating. Gone is the worry about being big enough, fast enough or strong enough. The other guy's skill counts for absolutely nothing. It's all about you, and only you. The other guy is prey to be taken, meat to be butchered. The pressure's off and you're free to do as you will.
Chris Ranck-BuhrMaster InstructorTarget-Focus Training

"if you can touch him you can break something inside of him... " - sounds like the ultimate teenage martial arts fantasy

I am now totally unconvinced by the TFT guys... and I had such high hopes.

Anyway, what do you lot think of the "beat an MMA champ with 5 deadly moves" patter?

personally I think its utter fucking horseshit

"eye gouging and bollock grabbing beats submission wrestling" no... it doesnt, but it does enhance it.

Im not even that good at MMA/ combat sports/ boxing wrestling whatever- but if anyone in the UK would like to meet up with me and see if they can stop me from punching fuck out of there head or choking them out by poking my eyes or grabbing my balls or biting me then lets hook something up in the friendly spirit of martial science and get it on camera

exactly how you will reach any of these targets without pinning or clinching me I do NOT know but I'd love to find out- so if you know anyone from the "I dont need to learn how to fight in order to beat you" camp who is up for it, send them my way.

the " I can eye gouge my way out of anything" fantasy is as dangerous a delusion as the "I can crush your larynx with a chop of my little dinky hand" one- perpetuated by nerds who spend more time THINKING than DOING

i dont know richie, i think i can...
i train shooto mma, and bjj also for a long time, also not saying im very very good in it.. but in a form of pencak silat i am very good in.

and from my experience of fighting is.. the guy who fight s with punches, kicks and mma skills, is not difficult to eye gauge him.. and it will turn the fight very quick.. i like to see the man who can see after you put your fingers in his eyes..

Totally yes if you say okay you have to reach his eyes first... but i combine training of old form of pencak silat its called basupi.. and modern mma ..
and most mma fighters put their heads forward if the wanna shoot you, or grapple with you.. i like to keep my head away from his fingers./ ballpoint / knife/ pocket stick/ glass, etc etc.

you dont have garuanty s in fighting, but i rather fight a mma fighter than a really really good expert in focus target hitting..

i dont know the guys from this article, and most off the time its bullshit indeed, but there are smart fighters outthere and i know few of them.

Yes i like to have a friendly challenge with you!!
maby i put paint on my fingers, and you wear goggles or somthing? haha mupped show.. but okay.. and wear groin protection.
only for the fingers is no protection..
i like to grab fingers and thumbs out of fists.
but the eye attacks and groin attacks are nice to train.. this way, we always train this way.

i dont like to sound rude because of my bad enlish.. i mean it really friendly mate, not to hurt you are make you look like a fool like the systema fuckers.. i like to show you maby a new experience.

greets

why i train bjj? and mma? because the police have for some reason eye and groin protection and sticks... haha
bikers sometimes keep their helmet on, at least i experienced once...
it was a crazy fight..

TFT... TFT... TFT... I still don't know what to say about those guys.

Apart from geuine stuff about them I disagree with I suspect that there is a bug in the communication lines here. A DYT issue on their side.

When you read the article, they say "touch." When I hear the word, I think of pressing light-switches, touching the keyboard of the computer right now. No force whatsoever. What I know of their material because I have some of it is that the way they teach it, all attacks should be done as hard as possible, flinging the entire bodyweight into the target focused on a soundly structured tool. Their body mechanics are actually more similar to those of tai chi than anything else I can think of. Mostly leg power and gravity. Back to the point though. If that is what they mean by "touch", and as far as I know that is indeed what they mean. Then the touch ---> breaking link makes more sense as it is actually physically possible. Now I don't know if their suggestion for how to attack is the best way to go about it, but it's a separate issue and I'll try to not digress too much here.

Let it suffice to say that it is probably the best way to simplify it for teaching someone totally green in a short time. Which is IMO what TFT seems mostly for. It reminds me of something I heard about how at least some of the national guard people over here were trained to shoot their rifles. I believe they were told to put the stock to their chest (or possibly strecth the weapon with both arms toward the enemy) and fire while moving right at them. an absolutely horrible way to handle a rifle! BUT these are soldiers who may only get a couple weeks of training total. Maybe fire 100 shots if that. And if you look at Dave Grossman's book's on combat stress psychology, people with these levels of training have a habit of shooting the air above the enemy, and so on. there's just a lot of stuff going on that kills performance.

Now training soldiers to handle their weapons like that significantly lowers the level of skill and effectiveness they can reach with that method, but that's a bit of a non issue scinse they would probably never get there anyway, seeing that they do not get adequate training. And if teaching them this ridiculous method can actually get them to reliably at least fire at the enemy, then the level of quality they can be expected to perform at, at minimum has been raised. Sort of a compromise. I don't like it but if this is a fact then I think I can at least understand it. The point of all this is that I think TFT is more or less the same thing.

An very basic method that takes a short time to learn which is mostly for people who can't or won't put in the training time. Now if this is correct. Then TFT seeming to completely ignore psychological things, focusing exclusively on taking the first available target, again and again, makes sense. I think psychology is too important to ignore but as a short term solution denial actually works as a coping mechanism, to say it in those terms. A total greenhorn who has no interest in the marty arty lifestyle and training requirements who only wants to be able to fight at some level might actully do fine with this stuff, for most of the trouble, most of the time. (which is likely to be minimal) It is far away from optimal but it may be adequate.

It's like... hmm... say, installing a spike on the head of a sheep to enhance it's butting. It'll never be a fighting machine such as a cat-type of animal but it might improve it's odds sufficiently. Next up is sharks with lasers!

TFT may have a few conceptual componets for me to steal but as a whole I don't think it's much of a method to adopt. also their marketing is off-putting and they really need to stop assuming people who read their articles see the world through their particular reality tunnel. (because breaking bones is way beyond "touching")

Chulodog, I took your response in the spirit in which it was intended mate- I think you've missed the pint of my initial post:

of course eye gouges will generate an effect, so will biting, striking the groin, ripping the fingers- that is why I teach them- but your DELIVERY SYSTEM for getting to these targets on me will come from your martial arts training- your mma, silat, whatever sparring experience you have plus attributes like strength fitness and aggression- so ..

in order to get eye gouges etc, lets call them "rips" from now on, on me you will have to
a. cover from my intial attack- using boxing or trapping skills
b. clinch me and control me in order to get any rip on at all- using what experience you have of bjj or whatever

My point isnt that rips dont work- they most certainly DO serve to generate an effect (however unpredicatable that may be in real world violence) but the notion that "rips" solve everything so one dont need not bother ones arse to learn how to box, grapple etc is just fallacious, fantasist and bloody lazy

Chulo if you can get a rip on me without using any attributes that look at all like MMA- i.e. just by going for the "rips" - I promise to get you pissed and pay for all your lapdances for a night

If you can fight AND you know your rips fair enough they are always a good back up or proved a bit of extra leverage... fight finishers? they are not...., but this TFT article is suggesting that if a 300lb combative athlete were to attack you that so long as you can touch him, you can injury : FANTASY Im afraid.

Chulo, the misunderstanding aside though I think the suggestion of trying to get rips on me whilst being attacked is still a good one- I would like to see by anlaysing the footage of that just how you set up the DELIVERY i strongly suspect if you can get any rips on at all it will be through the attributes you have developed by working other systems.

It would be nice to see the guy who wrote the article be pressure tested in the way he describes in the article... ie I would like to see him do what he is saying he can teach his students to do

Richard B- I think that was a very reasoned post but that you are being too kind!

would you trust them to teach a family member to fight?

are they not strongly playing to the fantasy of defeating monsters with a flick of your pinky in this article???

I seriously doubt whoever wrote this article has EVER been in an egangement like the one he described- if had he would not be implying , however innocently, that "touching" is the equivalant of "breaking"- a scrabble with a 300lb guy is a cluster fuck if he is fat, if he is muscled its a nightmare,

but if he knows a bit about what he is doing?

yeah, you will stop brock lesnar with a cob on by touching his knee and it popping off miraculously

this is the "human beings are made of blu tack and match sticks" fantasy- dangerous and misleading

I do take your point about stealing what is useful though RIch B- the initiated ARE CAPABLE of sorting wheat from chaff

Quote :

you dont have garuanty s in fighting, but i rather fight a mma fighter than a really really good expert in focus target hitting..

the more attributes and skills, the more dangerous the fighter- if he can do both then he is more risky... and if he weighs he is strong as an ox and fit as a buchers dog and crazy as a shithouse rat then double points for having a shitty situation thrown on your toes!

Ive been there, not many times, but enough to know that solution to that situation isnt as simple as reaching out and touching them and thm breaking... for fucks sake what is this, dim mak???



ah, if only fighting werent a blood and snot physical endavour leaving you with little dignity and some nasty scars

if only it could be all wise old chinese masters in silk robes poking people in pressure points with the shaolin bhudda finger so that they are paralysed

Richard Grannon wrote:

the notion that "rips" solve everything so one dont need not bother ones arse to learn how to box, grapple etc is just fallacious, fantasist and bloody lazy

Damn straight. There are no magic bullets. when those basics you mention become second nature and you're able to improvise competently on the spot with that stuff is when "advanced technique" appears. Ironically those things are what most people seem to want to skip, so they can get to the "good stuff." And especially forbidden things like "dirty fighting." It's like trying to cut corners building a fast race car so you put on all that fancy paint but skip the wheels and the engine.

Richard Grannon wrote:

Richard B- I think that was a very reasoned post but that you are being too kind!

would you trust them to teach a family member to fight?

are they not strongly playing to the fantasy of defeating monsters with a flick of your pinky in this article???

Maybe I am giving them a bit too much in the way of the benefit of the doubt. They are certainly catering to "the short cut'ers" out there and I wouldn't trust their training on it's own for myself or family members.

Wha, what? fighting isn't about buddhism and long beards going hiyha, hunh, yaaaaaah, hoa, eat lice yoo plick! A lot of people seem to have that as a sneaky, often unconscious presupposition though.

BTW that dude in the video is ashida kim also known as Radford Davis. The guys over at bullshido had a field day with him a few years ago. I think he had a lightsaber video too.



Now when you mention it, the basic idea behind TFT aren't too far removed from those of the deadly and fearsome dim mak. It's only based on western anatomy. But I need to go watch people get torn to shreds on tv now.

muhhahahah okay richie, i indeed dont know the pressure point guys..
i only know from my own experience.. you fight as if you train.. if you always train on boxing.. its more likely you punch the guy instead of an eye jab..
but i agree about the cross training.. its an atvantage.. in some points.. but really, and its no lie.. my fellow private student who i trained private lessons in pencaksilat for 8th years almost daily.. still only train basupi... and i did mma etc.. after my teacher died,
still sometimes we come together, he only do his skill s in sparring.. i can say.. its difficult and different from sport fighting.
soo , i felt confident when i fought a freefight match, but less confident when i spar basupi/ pencaksilat style with the guy who trained 2 years longer.

Richie, and for sure if the only goal is to put my fingers somebody s eyes.. its pretty obvious what im gonna try to do? haha, but old style basupi is much more than only eye jabbing. and groin kicking. for a pure result its better to let my best student do it.. because he never trained mma/ or something else than reflex/ target hitting and grabbing, and head controls we have also a lot.

i try to find somebody with a video camara, and make a clip. than you all can see something new maby./ or something to analyse..

greets!

the original post just reminds me of those charlatans that extort cash from frightened desperate well intended folks...who all get used to
playing tag with each other in a safe environment. but what the fook do i know. i'm not a shaman, i just play one on telly, but i rather suspect
that a piece like that came from withing as a great serge of inspirational free form creative writing. in the absense of much exposure to other forms of
training and violence, the novice has a lot to lost if s/he, erm, misses. forgive what must sound like intolerance but is, in actuality a lack of sleep
and some mild crabby-ness because my poofy hedonsit neighbor just complained that i was hitting the pads too loudly--always need to clarify
by way of background influences. on another day i'd say some dribble like, "i'd have to see it in motion to believe it, but i will remain open with
a twinge of skepticism". that's the beauty of sleep deprivation, now i can say stuff like,
TFT= TOTAL FANCY TRAINING, or, TANNED FAT TITTIES, or something equally random.

in short: it probably works for folks like Chulo, but novices i'd be nervous about...i wouldn't send my loved ones to something that doesn't give
a thorough foundation of some form of pugilism as a means of drawing from in the event that, given human capacity to makes mistakes in
the heat of the moment, my first one or two potentially table turning tricks are largely ineffective whilst stunned by a fast punch from a formidable
nut job coming at me with speed and power and conviction. fook me for seeing the gospel-like wisdom in possessing some of the formidable nature that
requires us to train in the first place.

my shortcomings are that i haven't seen them train, but my strengths are that i've seen alot of novices take years of training and not do shit with it. they're black belts and weekend courses have left them philosophically more defeated that when they started on this track. they're pressure tests only gave them worse beatings for the one or two somewhat skilled looking counters that soon petered out under the fear of not being properly familiar with the terrain. or i could just quote something i've seen written by mick coup--by way of a paraphrase of course because i'm too lazy to find it. one guy he was fighting he had to pulse repeatedly eye gouges because it wasn't doing it's job. or Richie's account of the guy he had to bite because he was all coked up...okay, gotta go, i sence sleep deprivation rambling building up.
anybody know how to change a nappy in the dark--my new ninja training dvd for dad's will be out, erm, well never i guess since i have yet to master said night nappies. god speed and i'm off.

TFT=TOO FOOKING TIRED, ah that's it. where are those meds?

Quote :

given human capacity to makes mistakes in
the heat of the moment, my first one or two potentially table turning tricks are largely ineffective whilst stunned by a fast punch from a formidable
nut job coming at me with speed and power and conviction.

Tanned Fat Titties.... if only that were a real style...

To be honest I was getting very unconvinced by all the blithe talk of "injury".... injury this and injury that... it just isnt that easy.

There is a consistently reliable way of delivering lasting "injury" but its not glamourous or cool and nobody trains it, that Ive seen, yet.

I believe Mick has had similar experience to me with eye gouging in that people dont respond in real life the way they do in training, Ive personally had one guy not respond at all to two of us sticking our fingers in his eyes at the same time and another guy actually opened his eye wider and thrust his head forward onto my finger slipping my thumb in deeper.

So much for "rips" saving the day! for me "rips" and delivering injury are further down the list of combative priorities outlined in the Beta8 syllabus than just knocking the fucker out.

Having had someone post me some more TFT clips via pm, I must say, the concept looks good the articles were well written but the application is just dreadful and yet again woefully naive.

i think the guys in England are much stronger or so? i put my thump also few times in somebodys eyes.. and they start leaving a recovery gap for 4 seconds minumum.. the right time to hurt him enough.
but if the guy s in enland even put your finger deeper in their own eyes.. yeah, ok.. than i dont know what to do any more..

in my experience.. even he was swinging his punch to me, and i gave an eye jab the punch loses allmost all his power..

yeah, but Richie, i really like to know for example if you have to fight a brock lessner type guy.. you gonna exchange punch with him? and go grapple with him? in my opinion its no option. you never gonna survive..

if you have an answer to this bull type guys bare hand knock them out im interested.

greets

besides, if he push his head forward, and your thumb goes in deep enough, you gan push your tumb from inside deep out to the outside.. the eye ball will come up a bit.. keep pushing it out.. I dont know, maby robocop keeps punching.

in my form of pencak silat there s alway s a sharp pink nail, and thumb nail.
but my eye jabs and thump hits where always with short nails.

i think if myself experienced wath you and mick coup experienced.. i would run!!! haha damn you fight a machine or so..
i have diffilcultys to believe somebody can take the pain, and even give himself more.. but maby on drugs? because im shocked! of your story, in my short time as ambulance driver school, we gave pain impulses you can even feel if your unconscious..
looks like a scary moment! haha, but
how he can fight if he cant see?, i get you pissed and lapdances etc.. if you can show me some fucker who i can put my both thumbs in his eyes, and himself push it further.. and keep fighting..
or hes tottally out of his mind, or he s a SM sex addict, or hes not human i think

Richie said:
..... "in order to get eye gouges etc, lets call them "rips" from now on, on me you will have to
a. cover from my intial attack- using boxing or trapping skills
b. clinch me and control me in order to get any rip on at all- using what experience you have of bjj or whatever"

I think I've said before that most of my training partners are taller and heavier than me, and I know that if they get control of me first i.e. I fail to stop them due to lack of accuracy in my strikes, or by just plain being in the way as I am run over. I'm kinda fracked.

Seems to me that you have to have at least some concept of how to cover so you don't get knocked out right at the start, and some training in how to deliver strikes that count, to targets that hurt, otherwise you are just ineffectually waving your arms around and gnashing your teeth into thin air.

I wasn't quite sure what the guy in the video was demonstrating ... but his outfit clearly demonstrated that he is very dangerous ......

I don't know what it is about eyes. I think it may be some displaced social destruction stuff going on. It's more psychologically devastating than physically devastating. Eye sight may be lost if it's a bad gouge but it won't stop anyone unless they stop themselves in fear and panic. Psychology is great to use when it works, but you can never rely on it like you can with physiology. Basically the only stuff that you can truly expect to stop someone is the stuff that's being prioritized during the survival stress response. Consciousness and oxygen delivery to the cells through breathing and blood circulation. And of course there are severe fractures which will definitely complicate things. You can't just rip and gouge at that stuff... Rips are force multipliers IMO and nothing more.

I actually have a few of the Tanned Fat Titty products, so I'll try to summarize the deal:

It's all based on the idea that when you injure (as opposed to just cause pain, they say that percieved pain is irrelevant) a target, the body reflexively moves to save itself. They give the example of the hand jerking back from touching a hot plate. Where "a switch at the top of the spine sends the command before the brain is notified." In addition the body moves around it's centerline and horizontal line across the navel when you bash into people. Ok. Let's call that the basis of the system.

If that idea is a fact and can be relied upon, then they say you can predict how the enemy will move, by making him move. Now as far as I can tell this isn't completely untrue. You have for instance slapping someone in the nuts so they bend their knees and jut their chin out. Bob Spour showed it as a start to the RTD. I think spinal reflexes are factual. But the caveat here for the TFT guys who base their entire system on this idea is; can you rely on this to happen every single time, or even most of the time? That is where I think TFT begins to veer off into nerdy plans-always-go-perfect-lala-land. That there is a reflex may be true, but will they be able to trigger it? They say you can predict how he will move by making him move. By causing injuries and taking control over his central nervous system (through spinal reflexes). That's how they reason you beat Brock Lessner. Because once you are in fact controlling his CNS and injuring him more and more, he is no longer a threat. Let's call this one the core assumption.

As they say, he is in the "effect state" and the accountant beating up Mr. Lessner is in the "cause state." Now I actually like a lot of what they say about this on the level of mindset. You always want to be the guy doing the violence. "... If you're on the defensive, you're seconds away from losing." - "fighting is about hurting people, period." etc, etc. But I have to question their core assumption. Will they be able to consistently injure the guy enough to trigger spinal reflexes to the point that it negates everything that guy has of skills and attributes, just by them getting the first shot in? I have difficulty believing Murphy would let something like that slide... Frankly I think their core assumption is delusional thinking. They have a big chart of targets based on the parts of the body that consistently show up in hospitals from sports and falls and such as well as a few obvious choices. Stuff that injures easy, but only compared to more robust stuff. It still doesen't make it easy, provided you can hit it, and provided you can generate enough force.

BTW you've seen how they train right? The way they strike and all that. That's what I was referring to when I talked about the lousy rifle handling compromise stuff. It is as far as I'm concerned a ridiculous way of striking. But having seen how badly a complete beginner can punch I think it is actually a viable way of generating at least a functional level of force for someone who has little physical and technical training, and little interest. I.e., they just want a basic ability (instead of their -percieved anyway - basic inability) to fight. The "you'll fight like shit but you'll at least fight" doctrine. May be better than untrained wild flailing, I'm not sure though. Adrenalized flailing works surprisingly well...

What they have is maybe not as important as what they don't have. you see they focus exclusively on offence. No defense whatsoever. conveniently they excuse themselves by saying;

Quote :

Why is he just standing there? Shouldn't he be throwing a punch or grabbing you or...

You don't expect him to be standing still when it starts and neither do we. Instead of attempting to model all possible violent situations, we are choosing to start where everything changes in your favor - The point where you cause the first injury.

If we tried to factor in all possible initial states he could throw at you - grappling from every angle, with one, the other, both hands ...[blah blah blah fast forward] ..knife, stick, gun. We'd both get exhausted, the video would consist of a googol hours (that's a one with a hundred zeroes after it) and it would cost the national debt compounded though all eternity.

It's not as useful as you'd think.

Instead what do all these bazillion possible situations have in common?

Everything changes in your favor when you injure him.

everything that happened or didn't happen before the injury is immaterial. Once you injure him, you are in absolute control of what happens next. [blah blah blah] Once you injure him, the rest is easy.

Because now all you have to do is take out an injured man.

BTW I had a discussion with some doof on the self protection forum some time ago concerning the shredder. He was saying once you glomm onto him those 10 years of boxing and BJJ go right out the window. While ignoring among other things that those 10 years of boxing and BJJ stood between him and that eventuality. I just realized this is the exact same scenario. Providing IF the shredder/TFT CNS control works perfectly, there is still the matter of getting there. But I digress...

Thus they conveniently leave out defence from their considerations. Awfully convenient when it just so happens that incoming crap is a major problem. fuck, I guess it's THE problem, or else there wouldn't even be a fight. Sure, sure... Everything may change in your favor when you injure him. But is that going to be a broken hand from hitting your head? Forward drive and offence is all good, but IMO defence is a necessity to cover your fuckups. (Ref: Murphy's law) Not to mention they make no mention of awareness, de-escalation, or anything but attack the target, attack the target....

The only thing I will say in their defence is about "touching" from that article. The mean slamming your whole body, leading with a fist or other "tool" into a target as hard as you can. Or at least that's how they say to do all attacks. Whether they may be catering to the dim mak type of crowd by writing a misleading advertising article is another matter.

If I had to fight Brock Lessner... I'd take my chances on this strategy: (after almost 3 minutes into the clip)

Best strategy for fighting Lessner

a guy i used to train with in TKD, who has some street like qualities of not letting the style limit him was forced into a car by a guy holding a screw driver to his back--the guy i know wasn't sure what the blunt object was and was compliant until his courage returned. he managed to guage his eye--not like the guy Richie was talking about but definitely a kind of 'rooting around' style gauging with his thumb, and this was after sticking that screw driver deep into his side. the guy was cursing and fighting still--albeit retreating at this point, but not on the ground crying for mummy or anything. i think there are people out there who fight more because they're kind of on automatic at this point (my take--not to exclude the numb drugged out chavs though).

attack to the groin and eyes are not manstoppers, only a nice extra to your punch?
any of you ever get a proper kick in your nuts?? or a finger in your eye??

your nerve system sometimes cant take it.., Dont underastamate the kick to the groin.

i dont know guys if i remember also my lessons from Bas rutten when he wasnt famous like now and still lived in Geldrop in holland, total crazy aggressive guy.. he liked to kick to the groin also because of the effect.
But okay, every body his own style..
but its a big difference if somebody punch my head, or stick a finger in my eye
and a big difference in my opinion if he givs me a hard low kick, or a hard proper soccer kick in my groin..
or you guys are a lot harder than i am.. i start to think so

there are no guarantees in a fight, no matter how much we would like them to be

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Dont underastamate the kick to the groin.

isnt that a direct quote from Bas Rutten?

kick groin, knee head... kick groin, knee head...

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Rips are force multipliers IMO and nothing more.

as Vanilla Ice once rapped: word to me mother

Excellent post RichardB, again very reasonable- I agree there are many many POSITIVE ASSUMPTIONS in the tanned titties, and if I pull up some of their videos I could demo how they actually self contradict, but this isnt bullshido and I may be a prick but Im not an asshole. I think tanned titties is way better than MOST of the stuff out there, but fundamnetally flawed as fook... in its fundaments...

right there down in the emprical assumption level 1

which ruins everything that comes thereafter of course ... if x= y then sure y must be greater than z... oopsy, except x does NOT equal y

a flick or a kick or even a lick to the bollocks doesnt get a guaranteed reponse, but I know which one I prefer

strictly speaking they should be saying: this move MAY cause an injury or has a high percentage chance of doing so... it MAY cause this exact reaction in your opponent or has a high percentage chance of doing so

In some of the stuff they are doing I relly dont feel like they have their objectives all that clearly defined- if it becomes more important to "deliver more injuries" standing up right than just knocking the fooka out or getting him to the deck, in my opinion you are losing your way and falling prey to the "appetite for variety" monster that afflicts us all

anyway, back to the other question:

would I willingly get in a fight with Brock Lessnar? hahaha!

as my mate Reg Wong says mr Clugston taught him: "dont stand in front of a mack truck"

and he follows that by adding
"the reason why stories of people surviving against terrible odds become famous and get dsiscussed is because its rare"

Im no idiot, Brock Lessnar SHOULD hospitalise me in no time and then go for a nap or his training and the laws of physics have failed him. I wouldnt get in the ring with him.
UNless I was offered a shit load of cash and thought it would be a good bit of promotion, but I would tippity tap tap faster than you can say "gene kelly" at the first sign of trouble

If it was a street situation, I would pay a beautiful girl to chat him up and slip crushed ketamine into his beer and then wait till he was passed out and hit him with a bat- lol! Im joking, Im sure he is a very nice person, we are just using him as an extreme example- plus I never advocate criminal/ immoral activity, just making a jokey point which most will get

Chulo I feel we may have our wires crossed Im not saying "rips" dont work, but that without a delivery system, they are useless- you mention punching the head and kicking the balls, I dont see either as "rips" just a part of the regular arsenal

Rich B dont know who the Shredder zealot was but as I understand it, they are expected to learn to box, kickbox grapple as part of the Senshido system of which the Shredder is actually a minor tool thereof... but yet again you cant help people getting the wrong end of the stick and over evaluating the usefulness of what makes their system "theirs"

I see similiarites between tanned tats and systema:

against a compliant partner ANY move/ system or technique will work

"I strike here and your clavicle breaks and then you move here and I pop your knee and then your head comes forward and I do a rolling guillotine slamming your head into the concrete..." its just not my cup of tea

Richie...just saw your last entry. yep. less dogma, more violence me thinks...
just eraced all the shite i almost posted in favor of the above statement. thanks for setting me straight. almost wrote a novel

Richie, I will aso say that people are trying to escape hard training and proper contact using over emphasized discussion on mindset

[i]tanned titties, UNless I was offered a shit load of cash and thought it would be a good bit of promotion, but I would tippity tap tap faster than you can say "gene kelly" at the first sign of trouble[/i

muhahahahahah funny!!

yeah, youre right richie, i understand you now!

greets mate

RichardB, you said what I was trying to get at also, yet so much better!!
You said:
"Will they be able to consistently injure the guy enough to trigger spinal reflexes to the point that it negates everything that guy has of skills and attributes, just by them getting the first shot in? I have difficulty believing Murphy would let something like that slide... Frankly I think their core assumption is delusional thinking". ......... "It still doesen't make it easy, provided you can hit it, and provided you can generate enough force".
And:
"What they have is maybe not as important as what they don't have. you see they focus exclusively on offence. No defense whatsoever".

Obviously offense is key, not defense, for if your opponent is busy being in pain/defending themselves, in theory(!!) they are not hitting you, but surely you need some kind of defensive structure to protect yourself aswell?
From the weapons stuff I do it's extremely apparent that you need a defensive "wall" as you close in, also you are always open when you go for a strike, so it's all good if you have the psychological advantage that makes your opponent defend instead of counter, but if you miss, or they are good, or stupid, or they don't care, then you get hit too. Add the fact that they are the size of a "Mack truck" and their accuracy matters little compared to what you need to do to make them go down, seems like you are in real trouble to rely on an eye gouge or whatever.

Also, from the stories I've heard from some cops I train with occasionally, It's amazing what the human body can do in a high adrenal state or on drugs - keeping running on a broken leg, not feeling any pain from subsequently fatal stab wounds, whatever. So relying on what a 'normal' person will react to is not a guarantee of success.

What would I do? ....Well I like the "girl with ketamine + bat" suggestion .......

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RichardB, you said what I was trying to get at also, yet so much better!!

thus is the nature of RichardB, he say betterer than anyone, the canny, reasoned wordsmith

Maija, you may in fact be in a superior position to me in being able to fight a monster (not that i would push you in front of me in a bar brawl or anything ) ... as a lady, through his alpha male perceptual filters you would not represent a threat so he would switch off - allowing you time to access your favourite sword...

that sounds so wrong... nobody in this day and age should really have a "favourite sword" ... you DO though dont you?

....er yes, it's true ....though I actually have 4 favorites ......
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...."through his alpha male perceptual filters you would not represent a threat"....
Sonny had many experienced martial artists want to train with him - he was notoriously reclusive and 'interviewed' each prospective student.
He would often use me as a ringer to see what was underneath the polite facade. He'd flow for a while with the new guy then he'd pass the blade to me. (I'd been sitting on the couch not saying much).
My job was to start easy, then start tagging the new guy more and more to see what they would do. It was a good test of personality!!
I'm very happy when people underestimate me, or do not see me as a threat. I use it often. Smiling works great too ......

How cool, so I'm a say betterer, eh? Bettering what people say, or I say maybe... Or do I bet on what people say, or their says? As a better. Err... Uh... Yes... Not to worry, it makes sense if you think about it... In any case wordsmithing is easier when you've got craploads of spare time like I tend to have.

Favorite swords, you say? I don't have a favorite sword. I only have one actually. And I don't know how high the quality is. Imagine trying to cut someone's head off, and the sword breaks. No, no, no. That won't do. I have a favorite axe though. And a few favorite knives (can't pick just one you know).

BTW "The knife fight personality test." Now that's combative psychology for you.