Fight Quest - Israel (Krav Maga)

Nironi is our one and only customer in Israel

I worked with two Israeli born Brits (one male one female) when I did a stint doing seminars in Schools who had done their national service, both were disparaging of the KM training given them in the infantry, the lad's father was a KM instructor to the Israeli military and he said that the really hardcore stuff was held back from the lower ranks and that what he saw being taught as KM around London was a bad photocopy

My other sources was a doorman I worked with, part Lebanese part Portuguese and a former Israeli citizen he said he had worked in "special forces" with the intelligence services in Israel and that he and others at that level were wholly disparaging of Krav Maga ...

Interesting that the etymology of the words Krav Maga breaks down as "combative contact".

I think I can understand a little better how instructors of KM are telling me they teach aspects of my material and why videos of KM instructors can be so widely varied.

As it stands then, Im goin to conclude KM exists as a concept rather than a system.

given the absence of the definition, do you think it is fair to say its NOT a behaviorally rooted, principles focussed system of training?

Richard Grannon wrote:

As it stands then, Im goin to conclude KM exists as a concept rather than a system.

given the absence of the definition, do you think it is fair to say its NOT a behaviorally rooted, principles focussed system of training?

my two-cents, yup...given your input and Nironi's 1st hand knowledge. more than fair assessment. this helps me and all, because i was sort of put off by all the BJJ, etc...teachers, at the local school. i wondered what was making it KM. what constituted it as Israel's combative martial art, etc...and the range of quality sort of takes the veil of mystery out of what seems incongruous from the clips i was finding. i guess with it's origins in wrestling and boxing, and it being a 'horizontal' system, these were early tip offs, better interpreted in hind sight.

I've tried to apply some goodwill and approach it from the source as far as I could find one, Imi Lichtenfeld and whatever aspects of KM he maintained control and influence over until his death, although my knowledge is superficial. There did seem to be a basic idea behind it. Beyond that, and perhaps more importantly, from what seems to be the case with KM in it's current state, globally. KM does not appear to be much more than an a brand name for a publically well-known and widely available (in the form of joinable gyms under instructors) manifestation of RBSD, out of 70's Israeli army combatives stuff. An easily marketable package that appears to have gone particularily sour after Lichtenfeld's death.

hope to be the first on a long line of customers....to all of you in the so called holy land- IT'S WORT IT
maybee we can use this thered to explore on sevral questions :
1- what makes a system A SYSTEM
2- most of the rbsd sites and clips i saw ( and i'm only a begginer in the all rbsd world ) , proudly stated that you can use the technics as a suit on any given system you train in..... so is rbsd A SYSTEM or more a way of trainig
3- are we in the middle of a revolution in the martial arts world where there will be no systems only principles... and if so why. is it a cultural thing ( living in a postmodern fluid world, being exposed via the internet to a vast quantety of "systems" around the world ) , or maybee it has to do with the fact that the goels of martial arts changed.

any thoughts ?

What makes a system a system? You'd think that would be it's systematic nature.

Well I'm short on time. But that's the gist of it.

RBSD? Neither a system nor a training method. Although choosing to take that angle might affect training methods. Reality-based self-defense is all it stands for. It is only a level more specific as a description than the term "martial arts." I think all it can really be said to do is state your intention about your training.

The revolution? I think we already had it. Bruce Lee is the front figure of that whole thing. But sincerely violent people have always taken what they liked and used it across imaginary categories and definitions. The mechanics of it are significantly improved because of the internet though.

Got to run...

gotta say I'm glad Ritchie opened the can o' worms here and asked "what is Krav Maga..."

There's a school here in London Ontario that teaches it... they're an affiliate of the Krav schools in London UK... but most of the techniques I've seen bare little resemblance to Israeli Krav Maga....

One particular technique I saw that made me go "wha????" was the locking of the arms across and over top of your own head in defense against a punch... this technique, to me, just screams upper cut and/or knee me in the face PLEASE!!!!!

go to about the 4:00 mark.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fy4pFpnKS-U&feature=player_embedded

secondly to me... it seems as though having your hands wrapped up like that would make it a little too easy for the attacker to grab your head in a bear hug or something whilst continuing to knee you in the face or grain and restricting your arms...

From everything else I've seen of Krav on youtube, it seems that it's more of an attitude. A lot of aggression and determination, not a lot of solid techniques, but more a "do anything at all costs to survive" ... most of the vids documenting training seem to emphasize berzerking (going nuts) and flailing wildly... I really don't know if I agree with this approach or not in response to an attack.

"berzerking" ... good verb