Why are some of us so addicted to internet "debate" over RBSD? BTW Firearms industry bickering is 10x as worse

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Nevermind...

Rich, I hope you are well. Send me an e-mail some time.

All the best.
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ryan wrote
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It's funny, you guys watch a video (from a comedy show, no less) and pass judgement on a whole system, organization, and group of instructors
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Dude. I took krav from Rhon Mizrahi's East Cost krav outfit, and quit when they started on the offensive knife sentry removal.

The techniques that I saw on this clip and from current krav youtube clips. especiall krav's 360 clock drill and counter knife and counter gun you tube clips have not evolved one damm bit since I studied krav in the early 90's..that's 18 years with no adaptation to adapt to current street modes of crime....Besides krav's effectiveness /ineffectiveness has been taughted to death here. I forget what is mentioned. But as a former krav practitioner who studied with Rhon when he was teaching out of a nursey school. I think I have the experience to compare and constrast krav, Carl Cestari's. Jim Wagner's , CFAs, T.Blauer, Senshido's countergun and counter knife material as I have trained in them all. Oh, I also trained in IDF pointshooting if that helps in making an informed opionion Rolling Eyes

Ryan wrote
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I'm not sure what you are referencing here, "countergun and def against the strangle",
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In the vidclip, I am referencing 2 separate attacks...One is a 2 handed strangle hold where the TP Is using no really realistic energy and man, it slowly came back to me ,I had forgotten, the krav defense (at this level, at each higher phase, they teach a different counter to the same attack Shocked) , is to "grab,hook at the attacker's wrist level( the weakest point of the attack , and "pluck" down,using the back muscles in a burst and simiutaneously knee the TP

...Now having studied more Combative systems that use alive non consentual training. that defensive and the counter against the bulletman,( 2 of 3 attacks that they chose to show on the program out of a typical LA krav class) would IMO if the TP was using realistic ,energy and momentum, the defenders would have lost their balance when they lifted their knee for nut shot.

Reference to countergun was :static gun in lead hand ,rather than a close retention threat from front....Same classical krav :grab muzzle and push down and pin with bodyweight while punching without hip rotation for power ..come on dude, u sound like ur trained. Does a strike with out hip torque sound like it has power?

Oh yeah, my current once a week TP is the gym's boxing coach and a Kansas city Krav dude, man, they still teach the same suicidal counterknife stuff after almost 2 decades....After a couple training times of no consent BG stabbing and slashing him, he figured out on his on to trap the knife limb ASAP ,rather than follow the Krav technique sequence.

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Ryan
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Oh, and if given the opportunity, are you telling me that you guys would decline to go on Oprah to demonstrate what you believe is the best self protection in the world?

BUT DO DARREN LEVINE, RHON TRULY BELIEVE THAT KRAV IS THE BEST PP SYSTEM IN THE WORLD..SURELY THEY HAVE RECONED THE COMPETITION'S MATERIAL AS A SMART BIZ MAN WOULD DO??
Please, Darren Levine, Rhon seem like smart combative insctructors, they surely know that no HTHC system is "complete"....and scope out other systems to compare and constrast. What bothers me is why they don't incorporate higher probability of success tactics that ensure the chances of students going home to kiss their families?? Is it politics??

Why don't they don't they make their drills alive and nonconcentual?...EG Retract the knife hand ,like real knifers do instead of keeping it there..U've seen the numerous KM youtube clips dude, and they all leave their knife arm out WAITING for the defender to bust his move....Why does krav teach a new defense for certain attack for each new belt level?? That doesn't make sense, unless one looks at it from a profit based model
What the Hagannah people say about the inadequacies of certain krav techs. may be true or not, at least they give reasons that make sense " the classic krav gun def. of clearing it and moving the muzzle off line may put innocents in the line of fire, so Hagannah. clears and controls by moving the muzzle upward etc."
That makes perfect common sense, why won't the heads of KM admit and address this and other inadequecies in their systems. Their is always room for adaption and evolution provided NO EGO nor POLITICS is involved ..do u not agree Ryan?....Man, I'm beginning to git why MP has such a hard on for Levine Twisted Evil !
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Krav demo 2005
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNkU9zyHuWw

Ewww, dude, do u agree that the "attacker" is not doing his best to negate and resist the counterattack? In the counterknife, instead of mulitple retracting stabs/slashes, the demo guy just leaves his knife hand out there, waiting for the defender? Attacker doesn't even "flinch" man Or the defender KM guy giving his back to the demo attacker'sDon't tell me u agree with going for to ground grappling in a PP situation( and this is revalent ) bc KM markets itself as the" finest HTHC system in the world, battletested by the IDF"

Well, nuff about krav, search the archives about km's inadequacies

George,Rod, I promise further posts will be about girls and Ben's global takeover of the RBSD market one woman at a time as KM politics has been talked to this here!
Ben wrote
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I can imagine "CARDIO KRAV MAGA" coming to a ymca near me! Just like in Australia we have "body combat" which is a cardio combat thing.. and I went a few times to check it out. I remember in one lesson a girl was asking the instructor "can I defend myself with this" and he was like "oh um.. yeah I guess you could"..

Poor girl.. if she had seen my face it would of been something like this..


Ooooh, Ben u chat her up?? TELL ME!! hey why don't u start ur own Dominant combat Cardio Combat gig eh? U talk smooth with the ladies Wink ..Think about it man
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all this is part of my master plan to take over the RBSD world!?
Laughing


Uhuh, one woman at a time eh Cool? I getcha!
W
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Why is internet bashing of other systems so addicting ? U don't see it in ballet right? OH well, off to train against the folsom prison tained lead han punch/eyejab to the face /rear stabe to face, neck or lungs/heart area....This is our current delimma..Bc it's like a jab /combo ..2 linear shots...anyone trained against this type of prison/gang knife method??
ta
W...

daringdoer wrote:

Why is internet bashing of other systems so addicting ? U don't see it in ballet right?

Because ballet is not on the boss-ape syllabus, whereas fighting is. Naturally nature being economically conscious tends to have apes fake it in case they can't make it. But so long as bananas and she-apes can be gotten, it doesen't matter if you're rotten...

OOOOH IT RHYMES IT RHYMES!!!1

Besides, one tribe of monkeys must at all times be at war with another tribe of monkeys. Blah!... martial arts... A few years ago I still had my rosy-colored martial arts glasses on. But gradually through exposure the festering, maggot-infested, mound of putrid fecal matter became too obvious to ignore, and I went "DAMN, I can't believe I've been rolling around in that crap for so long!" The fuses went completely kabzzzt. I couldn't even utter the words "martial arts" without sputtering and sneering at the mere mention of it. Ugh... yuck! It disgusted me enough to just turn my back on all things martial arts...

...but obsessively obsessed as I am I just couldn't keep away. After about a yearsomething really had to be done. Because, you know..., real fighting does exist. People and other animals have been beating and biting each other to shreds for millions of years. So all that is needed is to honestly seek out what actually works, instead of indulging in all these abstracted variations of it. Which occur because nobody are throwing javelins...

Why do martsy artists bicker and whine so much more than the other ballerinas? Don't know what you guys have experienced but to me it seems like to most people martial arts is more about distinguishing themselves socially than about developing skills for beating the crap out of people. Swimmers just swim. Knitters knit. (even boxers generally just box) But "martial artists" argue... Nothing wrong with debating things but at a certain point it becomes irrelevant and ridiculous. It's like a tribe in the middle of the thickest African desert having NEVER so much as seen the sea arguing ferociously about boats and surfing and so on. It's not really about boats and surfing, is it?

Who cares what Krav Maga does or doesen't do? Just train what you find best. That's one of the mental survival skills I've learned after swimming around in the social cesspools a bit. Just drop the world off of your shoulders and let monkeys be monkeys while you do things your way. It seems like people - probably because we are such social creatures that we are - have this compulsive need to have everyone else agree with their pet-perception of reality, as if group-consensus was what mattered. Get it if you can, but if people won't listen to proper argumentation, fuck 'em. Unless you simply like dules of verbal fecal matter of course. Nothing wrong with that.

I agree with the annoyance of "my system is better than yours". No 'system' can deal with every situation because real life is not a set type of events. It is always evolving. Only your mindset can be in a consistent state in every situation. First you need that consistent mindset. Only after will learning 'techniques' help.
Now that I've said that I'd like to bash...... I"m kidding, but I do want to put my 2 cents in regarding one of the earlier posts knocking Krav Maga. I'm only speaking out since I've always been annoyed by people hyping Krav Maga and the way it's marketed around the world. What you see in North America is only loosely based on what the military uses. The phrase 'the official Self Defense system of the Israeli Army' is just used for marketing purposes. In the Israeli Army there are different styles used. The Special Ops units don't use a self defense system. The system learned is based on aggression and adrenal stress training. It is about moving forward with aggression and attack combinations to stress and overload the attacker. Very much like many of the things Richie and other RBSD systems teach. The civilian Krav Maga you see in North America and Europe is very watered down because it needs to appeal to the average person. The military version is much more violent and you will get hurt so it is not good for the average person. The civilian Krav Maga is a company, a chain of locations. They do teach many of the basics and follow many of the concepts, but it's embarassing when it hypes itself up as the official Israeli Army system. It makes you expect alot more. The Discovery channel has a show called Fight Quest which did an episode on 2 styles of Israeli Krav Maga taught in Israel. One guy trains at the Wingate institute which is the centre where Military Krav Maga is taught for regular Infantry units and the other guy trains with a private class which uses a style followed by some of the Special Forces units. You will see how they both work on aggression and stress training and how the civilian version of Krav Maga would have a more difficult time marketing this to the masses. Like Richie always says, it is that aggressive, savage mindset that will help you in a real fight and that is what real Krav Maga is all about. Real Krav Maga is not a system it is a mindset. Anyway, looks like I put in alot more than 2 cents. Sorry. Here's the link for the Fight Quest clips on You Tube. Make sure to watch the ones from this user. some of the other users have edited clips that are shorter.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqD_y90uLXM

Paul Gomez, at TPI has a quote as a signature that answers partially to your question :

" "People tend to hold overly favorable views of their abilities in many social and intellectual domains. The authors suggest that this overestimation occurs, in part, because people who are unskilled in these domains suffer a dual burden: Not only do these people reach erroneous conclusions and make unfortunate choices, but their incompetence robs them of the metacognitive ability to realize it."

Journal of Personality and Social Psychology 1999, Vol 77 No.6, 1121-1134, Kruger & Dunning "

If you add, that a lot of these people tend to often take a stand that allows them to elaborate an underestimation of others abilities in order to comfort them in their conclusions about themselves being extremely competent, wise and confident in their choices, you pretty can explain a major part of the global internet forums activities.

nice intelligent posts gents

I know for a fact that academics are just as bitchy, as are NLP practitioners and Ive looked recently at some PUA material and the PUA gurus are worse! Its a good thing they are not violent types...

Ballet is an interesting example, there will be bitchiness between schools/teachers of ballet, dont dream for a second there wont be and there certainly IS terrible bitchiness within ballet shcools- I'll get my mate to come on her and post if I can

Humans must by their default setting live in a relative state of fear: we are fragile, life is transitory and hazardous and the desired resources are scarce

NOBODY knows what will happen, no matter how high up the monkey tree you can fling your feces from... presidents can be assassinated by lone gun men (or the mafia/military junta ), superstars can get struck down with cancer and who knows one little asteroid strike, the earth might tilt a bit and then everything is totally "gefuckt"

Warren did start by saying gun clubs are worse... Ive been on other forums where people discuss music but there is no agenda, they are all just fans and the appreciation of mucsic is immediate


two things fuel martial arts forums

1. martial arts instructors seeking to make money from their system and therefore operate with an agenda that is NOT all about the furthering of skill for us students its about generating sales and possibly a bit respect (ego propping)

2. deeply insecure individuals who are both frightened (of violence) and confused (by the wealth of conflicting messages)


the wealth of conflicting messages will be fuelled by the instructors who will want to claim they can teach anything... MMA instructors claiming to teach street self protection as well, for example... its a shame, the students suffer and the instructors prosper

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from my mate Lizzie B

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Re: hiya

Hey! Interesting thread - got a bit sidetracked with the conversation about BodyCombat! That's the class I am currently obsessed with !!

You proper street fighter dudes should absolutely capitalise on the whole self defense for women thing. BodyCombat is so popular right now.

Anyhoops, ballet is so unbelivably bitchy it's like an alternate universe! There's such an elitist snobbery entrenched in it too, largely surrounding where you train and who with - for example the Royal Academy of Dance (RAD) is the ultimate syllabus, and the one taught at the Royal Ballet School - but it's expensive so there are alternative syllabi taught such as ADA which is scoffed at by the ballet elite.

I've known girls to injure one another by 'glassing' shoes (putting broken glass inside pointe shoes) or even to grease shoes so dancers slip and are injured - even crazy shit like putting protein supplements or body builder powder in drinks to make a fellow dancer gain weight.

It's also a very psychologically challenging world - dancers are by their very nature, narcisstic, self absorbed, paranoid, regressive, child like, living in fear and bitchy - they have to be, they are in pursuit of the ultimate perfection in a way that goes entirely against the body's natural 'way' - it's so beautiful but entirely unnatural, therefore any tiny fluctuation or variant can alter your whole universe - it's like living in a permanent state of 'fight or flight' adrenaline.

That enough of a rant for you? haha

xxx

DAMN! And I thought martial artists were bad... Now it seems like with all groups of people there is a sneaky, bitchy majority engaging in every conceivable underhandedness in the war for bananas and the effort of climbing the monkeypile. I was wrong about the statement about ballet not being on the boss-ape syllabus. It's just not on the stereotypical masculine syllabus. On the feminie side though...

To borrow the words of Richard Marcinko; "Sometimes people tell me things like fear, complacency and egotism are just human nature. Well fuck human nature."

Anyone familiar with Tony Blauer's Ten Commandments of Street Survival?

This is from Blauer's Be Your Own Bodyguard...

Number 10 is a good one...

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Thou Shalt Not Rebuke Other Systems. Bruce Lee said "Man, the living creature, the creating individual, is always more important than any established style or system." This commandment is important on two levels. Firstly, on an emotional level it si important to make peace with everyone we contact. This attitude is contagious and if we all adopted a more loving and compassionate view of life and of our fellow human beings, we would all experience a significant increase in happiness and peace of mind.

In the martial arts world there exists so much comparison, pejorative competitiveness and politics, that our industry is simply a microcosm of the warring nations and rival gangs that pollute our cities and countries. Please reflect on this.

So keep an open mind. Maintain a "Beginners Mind." A beginner loves to learn. He is intent and intense. Learn to communicate, listen to the words, and listen to the voice of body language. When someone shows you a different way or explains a different apporach, listen keenly. Savor, digest and absorb.

And secondly, as a martial artist and self-defense specialist, you cannot affortd to limit your training. The more you understand any and all strategies, approaches, attitudes and methods, the greater your confidence.

So remember, training must be holistic: Mind, Body, Spirit

Humbling post Victor.
Step up to the plate and worry about one's own training and less about the computer keyboard.


Warren