Knife Attack Defense

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfhBWMECcX8


Nothing whips utuber martial artists into a frothing frenzy faster than knife defence videos - read the comments- Im being deliberately inflammatory- please join me in bursting a few bubbles

Nicely done Richie.

How we train to defend this particular scenario...

As the attacker is doing the Ice pick - as in the video - we burst in and block like you demo'd from there -
We can....
...palm strike like you showed to open the distance and, in my case, draw my gun and shoot him (if I was too stupid to see it coming to begin with.) God bless the Gunshine state and the 2nd ammendment!
...block - like you demo'd, figure 4 the attackers arm and keep walking forward and rip their shoulder out of it's socket.

Short, sweet, simple, all gross motor skill, and effective.

I'll kill any man who says different!!!!!!

Seriously though nothing is guaranteed!

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I'll kill any man who says different!!!!!!

HAHAHA! Utubers can get really intense

Richiewrote

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Warren already has full permission to hit on her- to practise his openers and his jedi lady mind control

Thanks Richie Very Happy ! Well, THEORITCALLY, when demo woman near the end of the vid had said "I'm hot"
I would have knocked the ball back into her court with:

"Well ,of Course ur hot!, ur...being...turned...on...by... our.. chemistry between...us ...uh, what r u..NO!,No!! not the face mauling ARGHH!! Confused "

True, Richie, I stopped with the magick spell and started doing CCC..didn't know to do it together....and also I thought I could fastrack your CCC program and only focus on the hot women, but the old brain went shortcircuit, so will follow ur instructions to the letter now!

Hey, Monday, at the gym their's this new aerobic program that uses alot of latin dance moves... learn to dance and banter with all the females there eh Richie :bball

My bad for always thinking that ur last name is Gannon instead of Grannon! Did some reflection and there used to be this Minasota VIKINGS football player named Richard Gannon !

Just saw ur vidclip "forget the slappy stuff knife defence " clilp Richie..
And u made that 2 years ago man! Have to salute ur determination to combative research to looking for more efficient concepts...U truly understand combat..and the vid made total sense...

Counterknife is a fucked up "damge control" situation given the knifer's homicidal mindset and ur search for a delivery system that would be so physically and pscyhologically ferocious and savage that it would pyschologically shut down his intention to further pump and slash u even for an instant rather than just a more functional physical tech. speaks to ur understanding of combat survival!...
Also Richie, at 3:48 ,after stepping in u chin jab, throat crush, anchor/headbutt ,bite ear etc. would have been a devastating psychological response that would have intercepted and shut down knifer's intention to pump u and forced him into defensive mode IMO..He's especting to sink his blade into soft flesh and sewing machine stitch u, not a palm strike that nearly disaligns his neck, his breathing impaired, the barrage of pain would be totally UNEXPECTED and devestating given:SAS !
Bravo to ur combtive researching richie....and ur banter and sense of humor skills..gotta go

As to my approach to teaching Counterknife, I teach the 3 assumptions, that perp is carrying,2)Perp has friends, 3) Perp assault will be an armed assault given so many LE stats and studies where LE were purposely tolde that they would be attacked with no lie marking blades but under adrenal stress of the scenario 90% of the officers didn't see the chalk blade and thought it they were being "punched"...and the miniscule % of LE who actually intercepted/deathgripped the knife limb DID NOT REMEMBER SEEING the BLADE when debriefed.
So most of the jams/defenses are "generic" in the sense that they will serve to intercept an unarmed attack as well as godforbid an edged weapon/impact weapons attack.
As for tactics, I always say to run from any instructor who uses "ALWAYS,NEVER" eg go the dead side, NEVER focus on the blade and trap it..ATTACk,ATTACk the man, AlWAYS control /trap the blade before u go savage on him etc"....There are simply too many variables in a particular context to think of combatives in black and white...eg One of my arms is broken and I step into the arc of a blade swipe, depending on which healthy arm is nearer the weapon bearing limb, I could anchor and headbutt, bite, or since the blade is past me in this particular context...option of ferociously attacking until the knifer is put down ala the pure ww2 combatives philosphy is an option...Too many greys in combat survival.
Though given most ballistic blade attacks given it's one on one context I follow the "distance is the friend of the enemy" ...will generally jam/anchor/trap/close into close range and use short range gross motor attacks...and the worse the knifer can do is "tip rip /wrist twirl" the muscles of my back/side...or it depends, I might pin/trap the blade arm to the knifer's body and immediately " gross motor maul him" The Context dictates one's responses single knifer, 2 on one with one blade, multiples with multiple blades etc.
IMO Proper INTENTION is so much more important than Proper "technical application"
W

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"Well ,of Course ur hot!, ur...being...turned...on...by... our.. chemistry between...us ...uh, what r u..NO!,No!! not the face mauling ARGHH!! Confused "

Ive just been throwing ideas at you Warren, you combine them in whatever way makes you feel most confident.

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Hey, Monday, at the gym their's this new aerobic program that uses alot of latin dance moves... learn to dance and banter with all the females there eh Richie

Two abilities have a weirdly powerful effect on women: the ability to dance and the ability to make people laugh

Become a dancing comedian and ur problems are solved mate!

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My bad for always thinking that ur last name is Gannon instead of Grannon! Did some reflection and there used to be this Minasota VIKINGS football player named Richard Gannon !

Yes people have got me confused with him and the chubby police man who had a fight with Kimbo

I was disturbed once to read on a forum "Yeah Richard Grannon arrested me at gun point 8 years ago, I became freinds with him, he now works as a security guard in (insert american state)"... when I read that I was thinking... hang on I was in university then ... am I schizophrenic???

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Counterknife is a fucked up "damge control" situation given the knifer's homicidal mindset and ur search for a delivery system that would be so physically and pscyhologically ferocious and savage that it would pyschologically shut down his intention to further pump and slash u even for an instant rather than just a more functional physical tech. speaks to ur understanding of combat survival!...

The thing is a proper, "catch you in the showers block you in and shank you up good" scenario must surely be rare to normal civilians who are more likely to experience "knife threat" (already very well covered in the senshido courses) and a proper "knife attack"

to which there will never be a neat solution... I look at it this way, if I had a knife and my prey didnt and I wanted to slash and poke him to bits, he's got no means of escape and no weapons, he's in serious trouble- his only hope is going to be to blast through me at MAXIMUM INTENT and run away
if he tries trapping/blocking I will BUTCHER them arms until hes trying to "pak sau" me with nothing more than a mangled stump

Thing is if he makes a mistake on the maximum intent blast he could run onto my knife and kill himself-
"Counterknife is a fucked up "damge control" situation" at best.


IMO Proper INTENTION is so much more important than Proper "technical application"

A Bob Spour philosophy to the letter

The counterknife DVDs I ordered from Lee MOrrison still haven't arrived..Can't say about Counterknife material from across the pond..But in North America, the most effective Counterknife materials seem to be from the Canadians
IE Riche Dimitri of Senshido, Tony Blauer of SPEAR, and Officer Darren Laur of damm, I don't remember his system's name .

As for US counterknife systems, I trained in Krav maga, Jim Wagner, Animal Mcyoung, Cestari's WW2 Combatives, and a video of Mcann's Crucible/Self Offense vid and HOck's vid....from all these, I have integrated some of Mr. Cestari's and Mcann's Counterknife (namely step in and attack,attack, cause harm the second perp's hand disappears and "dogpaddling" using a series of axehands to attack the knife limb every time it extends to stab/slice u to cause pain and psychological surprise...The strikes to soft insides of the forearms usually in training drills and scenarios causes the "knifer" to slow down, pause after the 2nd pump or switch angles.

These are Ferociously Sound Effective Principles by Canadian Combat/Survival instructor LE Darren Laur:

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1) Respect the blade The person who attacks with an edged weapon has two incredible advantages.

PSYCHOLOGICAL: has chosen to use the weapon ruthlessly
PHYSICAL: usually has first strike advantage

Again remember, it is the desperation factor and not the technical skill alone that makes a person armed with an edged weapon so dangerous


Expect to get cut. You will likely get cut, bleed, may or may not feel pain. A program that teaches students not to expect this fact is NEGLIGENT. Your goal is to “WIN” notice I use the word “WIN” and not “SURVIVE”. Words are very powerful. The word SURVIVE is no different than the word “TRY”. Both of these words to the subconscious mind mean “FAILURE”. Our goal is to WIN, survival is a by-product of winning.

Neutralize the line of attack. In any kind of combatives it is important to get you body off the line of attack.. Remember in a knife fight you will get cut and stuck, the secret is to limit the amount/degree of this damage. Unlike a fist fight, you can not stand there and take multiple blows with a knife

Control the delivery system. In the system of Pat Wrap and Attack we do not play the knife hand but rather the delivery system ( arm/elbow) In hockey do you play the puck or do you play the man. You play the man why, the puck moves to quick. In a knife fight don’t visually lock onto the knife hand it moves far to fast when compared to the arm/elbow. We also do not attempt to grab the knife hand in a dynamic situation for the reasons that I mentioned earlier. Small target, slippery when blood is present Remember than most edged weapon deaths are associated with serious multiple blows. Why, person failed to control the delivery system. The delivery system is the arm (lever), if we can control the lever we control the blade. The only exception to this rule is in a static knife hold up where the knife hand is not moving and can easily be controlled with two hands.

Attack the attack.. I believe that so long as the attacker has the opportunity to continue his attack, he has a strong tactical advantage, with a strong psychological advantage as well.Both of these advantages must be neutralized as soon as possible by throwing the attacker on the defensive.


I have been involved in FOUR separate edged weapon attacks which I “won”, and I have had one person die in my arms from an edged weapon attack.. There are a lot of edged weapon defense programs out there that are designed to get you KILLED because they do not deal with reality. Do your homework. I have attempted to summarize some of the reasons for the development of my 8 hr Pat. Wrap, and Attack system in this post. This system is being used around the world and has saved many lives. Knowledge and the understanding of that knowledge is power.

Richie,
thanks...you've settled my mind on the subject. i'm in your debt. if you make someone think of saving their own
ass--they'll be off their game trying to slice and dice yours.

me like.

-R

Russell wrote

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if you make the knifers think of saving their own asses--they'll be off their game trying to slice and dice yours

Amen dude
W

about the figure 4...
a good knife man, will switch his knife if he feels too much resistence..
even drop his knfe and catch with other hand, and stab imediatly. or.. i dont know the enlisch word for that.. but if you block.. he immediatly extend, or make the move longer.. by take the knfe whith his other hand, and stab him in the same move in the neck.
maby my teacher and friend will explain more..
you can check him at you tube under the name FRANS STROEVEN and check his knife videos

chulodogo wrote:

about the figure 4...
a good knife man, will switch his knife if he feels too much resistence..
even drop his knfe and catch with other hand, and stab imediatly. or.. i dont know the enlisch word for that.. but if you block.. he immediatly extend, or make the move longer.. by take the knfe whith his other hand, and stab him in the same move in the neck.
maby my teacher and friend will explain more..
you can check him at you tube under the name FRANS STROEVEN and check his knife videos

And if the queen had balls, she'd be king!

Anyone facing a "good knife man" should know better to run or shoot!

What constitutes a "good knife man?"

Have you ever heard of the "what if monkey?" The "what if monkey" is a little fucking monkey that bugs the shit out you...little fucker sometimes doesn't stop. Everytime he speaks it sound like a really loud WHATIF...WHATIF? Annoying little twat is he.

Now if my world, the knife man would cower in my presence. He would realize that brandishing the knife was his second mistake - the first being just the thought of it. Upon recognizing the error of his ways, he would apologize profusely. Depending on my mood, I might simply strike him down with my mental prowess or let him live. But either way, he would know that he fucked up.

Now if my world, the knife man would cower in my presence. He would realize that brandishing the knife was his second mistake - the first being just the thought of it. Upon recognizing the error of his ways, he would apologize profusely. Depending on my mood, I might simply strike him down with my mental prowess or let him live. But either way, he would know that he fucked up.

your an american i suppose?

always know everything.

but nice for you. to be soo confident about yourself.. but believe me, it can get you killed.
the monkey story of fairy tale, i dont understand.

i only put a suggestion, wich can help you, to check his other arm well.

but okay. you ass chi master with mind control handle him like you say, succes

there has been a linguistic breakdown here:

VictorS, Chulodogo doesnt speak good english

Chulodogo, VictorS is basically saying that when it comes to written explanations of techniques its pointless to start on the road of "counter techniques"- if we are all in the gym together thats fine, but on a forum it just gets confusing

also, you can swear your head off on this forum, but its daft to deliberately wind each other up- so my recommendation is that neither of you swear in posts directed at each other

also Chulodogo... you may not hate on the yanks on this forum- no yank hating!

and thats not because im an amercian... marican... amerianc... amreican... a yank!

Sarcasm was lost there. Darn internet.


Signed,

Know it all yank!




Chulo,

I don't know everything. My post was sarcasm...

An ice pick attack is a rage attack. A good knife man would not use this if he know what he is doing.

And, ChuloDogo, if you listen fairly well to what your instructor ( FRANS STROEVEN ) says on the link provided by you, " knife fighting is also an art ".

Here, the topic is Knife Attack, a total different ballgame.
Sincerely, I have never see a knife attack done as your instructor demonstrates his skills. Never.

okay richie, i shoud have put more attention at skool time.. but okay
it was not my intention to make a fight on the streetfight forum.
i only put a suggestion in a forum for knife attack.
In Holland is is normal to exchaince info about fighting.. crosstraining everywhere.


okay, and i like to train with you guys, then we can exchange techniques and nowledge.

Victor S. sorry mate, i get to soon to irritated,
i will keep my mouth shut about suggested techniques, and actions.

about your gun i agree.

grts Anthony

yes Serge,

that is what he say on this vid. also to make money.

but we really train as friends, and in the way we train, is different from his normal lessons..
we train on reflex, and surviving.
adrenaline training, and fast really fast movements without any show factor.
and i post my reply only out of experience.

and okay in this vid. of frans stroeven, its too much show maby.

but believe me. the mind aspects, of accepting the blood flow etc.. is a part of my training.

and on video looks it allways less good than in real life.

i have to work on my enlisch.

have a nice sunday

grts