The "Buccaneer Scholar", 'self education' for adults..?

Lack of trust individualism and the jungle mentality. I believe that it is a real and valid point of view. The world really is like that. The reason it is common is because it works.

But.

Within our TRIBES of vetted people. We know them, they know us. Or someone we know knows and so on. If they are bad for others, word will spread and at some point they can be ostracised. Tribes is how we created havens from the full fledged jungle "survival of the fittest" world.

In the past you could live your entire life within a stable tribe. Be born there, grow up there, start a family there and die there. The new world is moving FAST. Everything is fluctuating. The tribes are scattered. Few are a part of real communities. Everyone are individuals. And individuals are not individuals, they are numbers. Maybe because of technology, but also this.

http://www.cracked.com/article_14990_what-monkeysphere.html

I'll quote part of it, but the whole thing is a good read.

Quote :

First, picture a monkey. A monkey dressed like a little pirate, if that helps you. We'll call him Slappy.

Imagine you have Slappy as a pet. Imagine a personality for him. Maybe you and he have little pirate monkey adventures and maybe even join up to fight crime. Think how sad you'd be if Slappy died.

Now, imagine you get four more monkeys. We'll call them Tito, Bubbles, Marcel and ShitTosser. Imagine personalities for each of them now. Maybe one is aggressive, one is affectionate, one is quiet, the other just throws shit all the time. But they're all your personal monkey friends.

Now imagine a hundred monkeys.

Not so easy now, is it? So how many monkeys would you have to own before you couldn't remember their names? At what point, in your mind, do your beloved pets become just a faceless sea of monkey? Even though each one is every bit the monkey Slappy was, there's a certain point where you will no longer really care if one of them dies.

So how many monkeys would it take before you stopped caring?

That's not a rhetorical question. We actually know the number.

Interestingly, when I was in the army, each troop was at about 150 people. Divided into several smaller teams. The escadron has several troops, but the they were "the others." Well outside of my monkeysphere. Very strange guys. Much stranger than the guys in my troop, and we were of course much better.

We have tons of wiring and programming. For a society to work smoothly and optimally it has to acknowledge this and work with it. But the modern world is largely based on the notion that we are entirely rational creatures. That is untrue. We have the potential to be under certain circumstances, but it cannot be expected.

There are so many people today, and society changes so fast that tribes don't get off the ground. Not like they do under stable conditions. And also, using the army as an example when they use hardship to bond people through cooperation. Where real trust comes from. Technology has made the world so comfortable that this rarely happens with groups.

Someone said that nothing fails like success. Well it looks like our success is our problem here.

There is bound to be a lot more, but this seems like a big part of it.

By the way. On self-education relating to this subject. This book was very interesting. Easy to read as it is well-written. It is human nature 101. A lot of things clicked into place after reading it. Highly recommended.

http://www.amazon.com/Man-Nature-Programming-Controlling-Behavior/dp/0615280250/ref=ed_oe_p

Quote :

Product Description
Man by Nature is based upon the ongoing brain research that is providing new insight into how our brain functions. It shows how the left-brain Interpreter function makes it possible for us to be instinct-driven tribal territorial animals - consistently quarreling and warring with one another - and yet to be oblivious of the instincts provoking our behavior. The book identifies ten traits characteristic of human tribes, and develops a "Tribal Programming Theory of Human Behavior" that explains most observed human behavior remarkably well: It makes the case that human tribes are based primarily upon shared tribal beliefs that are defended as fiercely and irrationally as territory, thus making it almost impossible for religious and political tribes (for example) to discuss issues rationally. It concludes by weighing what will be required for the world and its tribes to eventually live in peace, given the new knowledge of our human nature.


Another Product Description
Why Can't We All Live In Peace? Because we're not programmed that way. We are programmed to be tribal territorial animals, and although we think that we are rational, our tribal programming causes us to consistently do irrational things and to wonder why we do them. . This has been our history . our "human dilemma." The "hidden programming" controlling our behavior is now being revealed through the research of neuroscientists studying how the brain functions. Based on that research, this book presents a "Tribal Programming Theory of Human Behavior" that answers many of the questions that have long perplexed us.

I love this forum.

Just got back from a political demonstration in London where we were having some really enlightened conversations about all sorts - one of which was self education over academia.

Who would of thought that I would be having the same conversations with SP guys on a website called STREET FIGHT secrets.com.

Awesome!

Just to add, this might not be relevant to anyone apart from me, but here is an interesting site I found with regards to 'Doing what you enjoy'.

The author does a good job of explaining his views on education in our culture.

It also made me think a lot differently about what 'Prestige' means.
If you fancy reading it, just think a little first about what prestigious positions in society there are, and what 'prestige' means in your immediate work environment.
To skip straight to this section, search for the bit titled 'Sirens'.

Regards!

http://www.paulgraham.com/love.html

is the lack of a like minded tribe what causes forums like this to flourish? are we looking to rebalance a missing natural state?

tribe = recognition, status, attention, sginificance, a role, a function... a "place"

a tribeless society, typical urban environment , gives you huge amounts of access to a variety of people but its all irrevelant without the above needs being met I think

now, back to bed

Richard Grannon wrote:

is the lack of a like minded tribe what causes forums like this to flourish? are we looking to rebalance a missing natural state?

tribe = recognition, status, attention, sginificance, a role, a function... a "place"

a tribeless society, typical urban environment , gives you huge amounts of access to a variety of people but its all irrevelant without the above needs being met I think

now, back to bed

okay, that was a catalyst for me. i've studied cultures, subcultures, etc...in my previous incarnation as an anthropology
major...almost entirely because i was always dodging between groups offering only a wee bit of overlap in terms of
commonality. they just didn't mix/mesh and i ended up a cultural broker--feeling that i could relate to everyone, but identify
with no one, except you lot. go figure?

there has to be a reason that i've checked out loads of similarly themed forums and thought...naw, either this is sh&^ or i'm just not feeling it and don't know why. no inspiration. no impetus to explore and evolve. just a bunch of individuals and some duo and trios that act like cliques. shared agreements and bolstered views based on consentual back pats by way of credentials and alpha pecking orders and whatever else. god comlexes, quirky hierarchical tribes that evolved in a linear
fashion that hide under the sign, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"...but what if it ain't broke because it ain't been used recently.
okay that was too cryptic, but i'm trying not to break my cardinal rule which is, "fook paying attention to that which isn't inspiring and thought inducing, i'll simply bypass it and stay on my own track and see who is still around whilst i grow and learn. i'd rather face the sun and grow, than waste time looking back over and feeling self congratulatory.

in short. whatever this is, it's not a coincidence that like flowing water, some land forms were avoided in the natural course toward water level. those that are left are meant to be in this shared space of forward motion. those that are here enjoy the journey way more than some fixed point or ending.

we are the zen cultural equivalent of thuggish intellectuals--okay now i'm actually just laughing to myself, looking for the words. my daughter just woke up. that's my que to leave.
god speed.

I suspect there is something instinctual in us humans that seeks to create alliances - on a basic survival level, your odds go up if you are part of a group, right?
The Yi Ching or Book of Changes, said to be created by the Zhou people around 1000 BCE talks a great deal about the wisdom of creating alliances and of people working together, and how it creates the path to prosperity - so obviously people have been thinking about this for a long time. (.... not that tribalism is always a good thing of course, because when you have 'us', you also get 'them', but I digress ...)
(Way) Back in the day, there was only 'your people' against the vagaries of nature so there were no options. No trust necessary - blood was blood. To have a strong alliance or tribe, you have to believe that you are all on the same side, and perhaps virtual alliances are the modern way to find common ground and find out who you can trust to leap in with you to bring down that Mastodon!
Nowadays you can choose your tribe, not be born into it, but that has both up and down sides, mostly I think due to this 'trust' issue, and it is for sure harder to identify in modern day urban living.
Perhaps forums like this give you the TIME necessary to make decisions about which group you can trust, and thus want to be part of, to up your chances of survival ...?

I'm sorry, i'm a bit lost here. Is the message that we are acting in a natural way as members of a 'tribe' sort of group? Or is it that the absence of the 'tribe' mentality is making us get on?

maybe both, maybe neither




we fear conclusions, conclusions are the enemy

Western man could start by reconstituting the familly for what it was originally intended.A co-operative self help group.Lets see if we can manage that much!