Systema DVD..

Hey Richie,
I just seen on a Systema site that you did a dvd with them, what were your experiences?

I have watched some of their stuff.. and my BS meter goes off the charts!.. Its the stupidest thing i've seen..

I saw a clip of the above mentioned dvd.. and you obviously weren't attacking with intent or any kind of resistance.. and were just being compliant.. and the guy is doing some very strange hand motions..

Everybody that has any experience i've asked about Systema laughs.. but i'd be interested to know because you have had personal experience with it..
-Ben

Hey Ben,

That dvd you talk about had caused Richie abit of trouble if you take a search online.

As for Richie's view I can't speak for him but I can tell you that there is a reason why that dvd is not on sale on the streetfightsecrets site!

Hi

yeah, the DVD caused some trouble... Ive only been doing the DVDs for a couple of years and when I started out I had an idea to go round all different styles and do like a Q+A format with them for the most street useful techniques

so I was going to do a Silat one, a Systema one, a JKD one, a Savate one and so forth

I stopped after the Systema one! I wanted (in my naivite) to generate an open minded respectful discussion about different martial styles and their relative effectiveness in a modern street environment...

I think I overestimated where my fellow martial artists are up to!

First off the Systema guys edited the DVD and started making clips from it and uploading them to youtube without my permission, then they started calling me an "MMA fighter" (?? kind of implies pro cage fighter dunnit??) and then it was made out that we had had a FIGHT and I had been beaten and the video clips were used as trophies of the effectivenss of systema and the instructor involved

real shame

one of my pet hates is when I respectfully and compliantly allow people to practise/demonstrate their techniques in Martial Arts scenarios and they just take a liberty with it
(I am as we speak on the couch next to a set of crtuches having torn my ACL in over zealous MMA class last night)

Now... you asked me what were my experiences of Systema? so here are the postives:

(I studied Vlad's Systema and on and off for a few years from the sidelines via dvds and the book and have trained with at two systema seminars once with vlad and the other time with vlad and mikhail ryabko- I think I did maybe 10 classes total with the guy I shot the DVD with- just so you know how limited my exposure to Systema was)

positve things that I took from my Systema experience

positive number 1- they eschew training with fancy equipment and in true Russian fashion make do with what they have
this is really cool, means that you train with limited or no protective equipment as you would in a fight, you go flesh on flesh bone on bone strikes and all the conditioining is done with some ingenious body weight exercises which Im a big fan of

postive number 2- its a hollistic system of health, movement, psychology etc
I do like that hollistic approach- its much more martial artsy than RBSD-ish but I do hope one day that with the psychology and the physical training to develop a hollistic system myself- though it is unessential to seeing you get through a scrap in the chippy!
the cold water dousing and fasting I thought were cool, constant emphasis on being exposed to the elements and expecting your body to cope was good... to this day im still a fresh air freak- the russian health philosophy has contributed to that massively

positive number 3- no beginning and no end to strikes, no fighting "stance"
man, you could write a book on this one alone... take kickboxing, strain it through the aikido philosophy, douse it with it with Zen present moment awareness and you have this "any strike any where any angle" thing... its subtle... NOT a "street fight essential" by any stretch of the imagination, but something that you will see come through on the seminars with me

postive number 4- emphasis on psychology and compatability with NLP
Russians have a pretty unique world view, its kind of eastern to the extent that they dont see a big split between science, psychology and mysticism- very cool, I liked it

positive number 5- emphasis on DIRECTION of strike and its EFFECT rather than just raw speed and power (emphasis on "action" rather than "activity"
Now this was something that I was already into from studying Kyusho-Jitsu, the Russians dont go for specifc points rather the "fist intuitvely finds the right place and angle and direction to strike for the desired effect" ... thats a paraphrase from the Russian Systema Guidebook by Vlad Vasiliev, I cant remember the exact quote

positve number 6- absorbing strikes
I liked it, too long to explain why right now

positive number 7- I learned a move from a DVD on dealing with multiples on the Monday, practised it with a mate on Tuesday, used it in a Bar room brawl with 6 lands trying to smack me round on the Saturday!

'nuff said

numero 8- the loose Russian slap
I remeber reading about it in the hokes martial arts book by Gilbey, and it is a very cool technique

9- escapes from locks and grabs
some of the best stuff out there IMHO for this niche issue- relies on the principle that very often for locks or holds to work the recipient has to add tension to it, when you relax into it there is no lock- if your intrigued pull me at a seminar and I'll show you...


10- use of deceptive movement and working from funny angles
They make funny shapes in Systema- this is more Vlads style than Mikhails- and Vlad says repeatedly that you shouldnt worry about how you look in a fight- if it works do it- leads to some very unorthodox solutions to common attacks

11- allows/fosters creativity- no rigid mind crushing form
when you train with me, I will give you a direction and a destination but the specifics of how you get there doesnt really bother me too much unless its dangerous for you! in this respect Im highly influenced by Russian approach

12- focus (attack) on where their attention is NOT
this is sublte stuff too, only really saw it before in applied tai chi and some grappling classes (not that ist taught explicitly- but a more experienced grappler will always submit you by going to where you arent worrying about and focussing on) this is something I cover quite a bit in the new Neuro Linguistics CD course.



there is probably other stuff too - they do have a kind of Russian Macho be tough, take hard knocks and get back up thing going on which I thought was a good attitude to actively foster and cultivate.

Is this unique to Systema? No, apparently these themes are common to all Russian Martial Arts... also I saw some of these things in Ninjitsu, Aikido, Silat (uses a lot of the same principles but they manifest in a really different way) BJJ and some of the older Thai systems like Lerdit

Was there stuff that I did NOT like in Systema? Yes, unfortunately, there was too much, but why go into it?

I wouldnt want to lose the good stuff that I got from studying Systema, but I wouldnt go back to it I dont think... I would be interested in training some of the other Russian Martial Arts that have a stronger base in basic kickboxing and grappling with the "loose relaxed movement" served as icing to the cake rather than the cake itself.

Ive really tried here to answer the question fully, say something postive and avoid petty politics.

spasiba droogs

PazhAlusta

Many Russian Martial arts are badly represented in the U.K. This is a personal view through my own research before any rabid devotees appear threatening to poison me or whatever it is that the KGB do these days.

I would agree with the plus points, I found the slowing training, positioning strikes on the body and taking heavy strikes to be of great value, however it did attract an awful lot of nutters!

okay, richie, i hope you can answer me this time.. on you tube you say my question is answered in your forum..
i ask again.. you tested systema you say you put him under pressure.. and he play with you like you are a nobody.. soo, i like to know, you act that time? or lie? or is systema soo powerful that you really cannot resist? i like to know that because im from holland, i train for years now.. and i like bob spour, and some of your techniques too, and me and my friend dont think you are a liar or fake person..
that is wy i like to know if systema is soo effective that a fat untrained body like the systema guy, you, with all your muscels, and skills soo easy dominate like you were his bitch.
i dont like to be bullshitted you know?
And i know your nlp and that it is always better to only tell the positive things.. but i only like to know if its true what happened in the you tube movie with you and the systema guy..
and if its true.. what i hope, because i like to believe you.. than wy you dont practice systema any more.? if he can control you that easy?
i like to know from you, and for sure i go check myself next week systema in germany.. i hope they can easilly beat me!! than i have something to train again!!
i really looking forward to receive your answer!!
grtz Antony!! from Holland!

Antoine

go back and edit your post mate

Richie

A few months back he had clips of the video on his site . I've been to Russia, Ukraine, Slovenia, etc etc etc all over Eastern Europe and this is garbage. Real systema looks nothing like this and that guy who claims he beat you on his site is nothinbg more than a con-man looking for "students" of his crap system. i guarantee any average "street fighter" would tear this dude in half.

BTW good job Richie at your Russian. friends = друэья (drooogya "plural"
and thank you = спасибо "spasibo" sorry I don't know how to Angleisize tthe spellings, only to spell in Russian alphabet)

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sytema soo powerful that you really cannot resist? i like to know if systema is soo effective that a fat untrained body like the systema guy soo easy dominate like you were his bitch

Maybe English is not your first language but that was a rude comment. Do you say things like this to people on the street? Maybe you both know each other? Either way I don't care. What you are calling "systema" is garbage.

Quote :

i dont like to be bullshitted you know?

Then I advise you don't go to that fake "systema" class next week.

Quote :

And i know your nlp and that it is always better to only tell the positive things.. !

Why is that and what's wrong with using NLP to help defend yourself and save your life? Isn't that a positive thing? Ok I am done ranting, take care and peace.

spasibo Sergei

no I dont know Antoine, so I dont know what the problem is

I do know that I will only take the time to answer genuine, sincere questions asked in a polite, respectful manner that have some positive point to them... like the question that started this thread.

Something about people I dont know swearing at me and demanding answers in a belligerent tone just makes me feel unmotivated to help them

Richard, Great Positives on Systema. I agree 100% with all your positives. I am sure there are alot of "weak"Systema teachers out there(basically guys who have alot of enthusiasm and alot of systema dvd's which they've watched hundreds of times) I recommend to anyone if you can, come to Toronto and take a class with Vladimir. he is a Machine and true gentleman. I know it looks fake but, having had experience at his school I saw him many times and got tossed around plenty of times by him and senior students. Systema can be complicated(too complicated for a simpleton like me) However, there are techniques I have seen and practiced(though there are'nt really techniques in systema-too long to comment on) which dont translate to reality(IMHO). I have also, when sparring on occassion with senior students on knife disarms, totally threw them off and symbolically disemboweled them when I attacked with more unorthodox attacks.(ie, NOT the standard underhand upward direction to their gut or the exagerrated downward stab to their collarbone) I will say this though, Vladimir is amazing. I tried and failed miserably when I thought I could "get him"but he is so humble and when he makes mistakes he shrugs it off and laughs at himself. Mikhail Ryabko is amazing as well and he also dropped me quite easily. BTW, I am here and committed to Richard's dvd's because, whilst I'm grateful to all I have learned from Systema I am at a different point in my life and have my own personal reasons that I stopped training. I find Richard's tapes the best I have come across for true no hype, not mass marketed, shit that works. More importantly I like Richards dvd's because I have learned that fighting and self protection is pretty much totally in our heads(our handling of violence etc etc) Whatever i trained in before, I was'nt really ready because I didnt have the crap in my head(fears anxieties etc) sorted out. It's now at 32 years of age with Richard's dvd's that Im finally figuring this stuff out. I take all the positives I have ever learned from systema and there are so so many and just want to grow on my martial path. To the guy who started this post, dude, if you can come to Toronto or go to Moscow and spend some time with Vlad or Mikhail do it. (I will only defend Vlad and Mikhail because I know what they can do)*Especially Vladimir I cant say any of the same for other äffiliate"instructors or other guys coming out of Russia making claims to have trained with so and so etc..

Hi Nelson

thanks very much for the big compliments mate

I agree: Anyone who gets in physical contact with Vladimir Vasiliev will realise immediately that he is an extremely gifted martial artist.

Is Systema the fastest way for a student to reach their objectives?
Depends on the student's objectives.

Im not even convinced that Systema can be called a system as such, to me it seemed more like a series of training concepts/drills and Im not convinced that the instructors I came into contact with agreed fully with each other on what the concepts are and what the drills are for.

When concepts are so vague it really allows a tabula rasa upon which people can project their own skills and experience- very dodgy ground.

Are they training drills or are they fighting techniques to be used? Are we learning to fight or are we learning some kind of "freedom of movement" ? these are the questions I would ask continuously with no proper answers given.

Im a bit of a regimented individual and if the objectives arent clearly defined I start to lose interest quickly. Ive come to realise that without clear tight objectives for any task no real skill is ever developed.

Im not looking down my nose at Systema and saying mainstream RBSD is any clearer.
RBSD can sometimes fall into this hole: what about improvised weapons, multiple attackers, fighting in the back seat of a taxi whilst holding your shopping in one hand against a one armed drag queen with a straight razor???

I dont think anything further of use is going to come from a thread about a DVD I withdrew years ago done with people I dont associate with anymore. Read between the lines. If people want to discuss Russian Martial Arts in general go ahead and start a new thread, Im up for it.

But this one I think is best now locked.