Systema Masters Have a Beef .....

Found this on another forum:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEHSmui3Gic
Quote: "This was filmed during confrontation between two well known masters of
russian SYSTEMA/Kadochnikov school. Frolov is official Moscow
representative of Kadochnikov school. Starov studied Kadochnikov system
too, but then formed his own school in search for big money. Frolov
wrote crap about Starov on his website. So Starov decided to orginize
duel. But Frolov refused to fight. After that Starov slaped him couple
of times and tried to chocke. Fight was stopped after 45 sec."

I just gagged... I think it was on some old shame I just burped back up





cheeky assumption numero uno: if the movement works at slow speed and full compliance it will work at full speed non compliance ...you will just have to move a bit faster...


then, uh... why did those dudes look like every other divvy does when they brawl?

"scrappy head lock for two please guv"

and what do you make when you "assume" without testing?

perhaps energy not flow because they not relax or not do enough cold water splash or pray hard enough?

or perhaps there is only one style of making the fight please?

we call it: "human style" is very nice

under pressure every one looks the same... quelle fackin' surprise!




spasiba Maija that was horrorshow droog

I gather they only "train" because it is fun and for the deadly-man image.

I particularly enjoyed the fact that they were in their tactical combat outfits for their moment in the spotlight.
"Human Style" indeed ......

maija wrote:

I particularly enjoyed the fact that they were in their tactical combat outfits for their moment in the spotlight.
"Human Style" indeed ......

I know, its so cringe inducing... nnnnngggggggh!

Would have loved to be an fly on the wall and hear how the students justified that one afterwards!!

once when watching vlad at a seminar "pull the strings" of someones "psychic energy" to make them fall down (just picture a guy in combats miming pulling loose puppet strings and the other mime actor responding as though pulled by said strings- no, Im not making this up). The crowd was awed.

I was awed.

But perhaps for a slightly different reason.

Then vlad tried to "pull the guys strings" behind the student, in the sort of back of knee area, out of the studetns line of vision whilst the student plainly wasnt paying attention (showing that bizzarely vlad believes he really IS pulling psychic strings) the student of course did not respond because he couldnt see what was expected of him... the enraged faces of the students in the loving crowd in front of him told him all he needed to know: they started indicating furiously with their hands
as if to say "your strings are being PULLED you incompetent buffon, fall the fuck OVER like you are supposed to"
the student belatedly realised he was missing part of the "game" and with an embarassed smile "doh! silly me! all fall down!" duly tumbled to the floor

the crowd mumbled and things were said to justify this rather large hole that had just been eaten through their map of reality

the student was OF COURSE to blame

"he wasnt in the moment"

"he wasnt relaxed enough"

"he wasnt sensitive enough"

Yes, yes, its the STUDENTS fault... the Emporer IS wearing clothes and they are a beautiful camo colour.

"the strings were too loose"

"the strings werent tied properly to his psychic aura, fuckin' noob"

"he's not a real puppet yet, only those who train in Moscow become true puppets and are given their psychic strings following a sombre initiation ceremony"

bizzare... but I asked myself at the time, could so many intelligent, experienced, qualified, grown up, mature sober looking martial artists be wrong (back in the day systema attracted instructors and intellectual types in much the way some TMA's do- wing chun/aikido- many bright people there!) really have this SO wrong?

and the answer is of course: YES

I always try and remind myself the "heavens gate" suicide cult was comprised of educated middle class surburbanites, some were doctors and solicitors believing that killing themselves would allow thm entry to an alien spaceship that was taking them to another dimension... what, their futuristic alien technology couldnt afford to take them alive???

the lesson for me? you GOT to think for yourself, never trust another persons judgement without measuring it against your own

and, as Ive just said to someone in a pm talking about another fighting system- beware the smell of fresh CULT!

Well ... we all just want to be cool right? I started martial arts because I wanted to be able to catch arrows being shot at me like Quai Chang Kane ..... Now I was 9, so I think I have an excuse, but still it WOULD be cool to be able to do Jedi mind tricks and fight like Yoda, especially if you get the good outfit to go with it, (I admit it, I once took an Aikido weapons class because I wanted to swan around in a Hakama) and there is something to be said for Systema - having spent time 'Up North', and I mean much closer to the arctic tundra than Birkenhead, and watched the strange dances that pass for fights after a LONG LONG night of drinking .... I think it might just have something going for it

Vlad's psychokinesis probably does work.

Provided that he is up against an extremely relaxed, sensitive, and suggestible enemy, so that Vlad can tie those strings of his to his "psychic aura."

Vlad should probably associate a signature sound to his string-pulling as well, just in case he can't get eye contact with his puppets.

Suggestions? I've got one; "Ka-ching."

but I asked myself at the time, could so many intelligent, experienced, qualified, grown up, mature sober looking martial artists be wrong

Hmm... I think there are a few flawed assumptions here.

intelligent (a potential only, rarely realized), experienced, qualified (that one's on them, they really should know better), grown up, mature sober looking (most people are significantly better at and more concerned with creating the appearance of a trait than the thing itself) back in the day systema attracted instructors and intellectual types in much the way some TMA's do- wing chun/aikido- many bright people there! (maybe they thought they were too smarty smart smart to be fooled. Smart people are far more dangerous idiots than dumb people)

The main thing wrong with systema is human nature. True about most things actually. The problem is that the human mind is always secreting a coating of bullshit on all things as a protective mechanism, as well as for a little finagling things into place without friction. Why bovine feces in particular is used for this is still uncertain. It is possible that it excels for the task due to being of a particularily smooth texture, giving it increased versatility as is required in order to comply with the demands of the variety of situations it is applied to. It also sticks easily to most surfaces.

Anecdotal evidence exists that bovine feces deficient individuals have been able to aquire and apply some level of fighting skill from involvement with systema. It is likely that the layer of bullshit only has the appearance of going all way through, and that there is a small core of salvageable material beneath.

Quote :

The problem is that the human mind is always secreting a coating of bullshit on all things as a protective mechanism, as well as for a little finagling things into place without friction.

HAHAHA! thats a NAAASTY image... but reeks of truth!

Quote :

Anecdotal evidence exists that bovine feces deficient individuals have been able to aquire and apply some level of fighting skill from involvement with systema. It is likely that the layer of bullshit only has the appearance of going all way through, and that there is a small core of salvageable material beneath.

there is indeed, mainly pertains to emphasis on formless improvisation with focus on effect (we dont care how you get the EFFECT just get it!)... in a nutshell... or a tiny russian doll shell....


but then they start doing IMPRESSIONS of people "formlessly" improvising and wiggly waggly floppy doppy is used when something simple and dull and "un systema ish" like a straight right cross to the jaw for instance, would do the job far more quickly

"no, no, we have to wear the uniform, speak the language and move the way that makes OUR system UNIQUE otherwise where will we derive our sense of self and belonging to a tribe from"

"are you hear to learn to fight or to join a gang?"

"to learn to fight, silly! now can I please buy some cammo pants and a shirt with russian writing on... just doesnt feel right otherwise..."


unfortunately, human style will never be allowed to exist as it will destroy one of the apparent main objectives of martial art training : to join and be a member of a tribe

and so, people will still be arguin the same points on martial arts forums for decades to come (until the thought police shut the internet down ), not because they seek answers but because they are motivated by an agenda of self definition

"look if I spout off online... I know who I am! I'm a tactical realist, I hate karate... yeah karate bad, but preemptive palm strike good... logic? fuck logic, Im having a great time!"

oh well at least the students watching that will know that these two guys are shit teachers. that just looked like throwing out time down bolton. lol

i love this mass intro with all the russian and then its "slap, slap, slap, half hearted headlock". were was the knees?!!! lol

thanks for posting

yes, yes, but i like many people train bullshit way!
i wish also every man was gay

hahah, theres more for me

awesome!
like two school girls fighting over the prize in the box of cracker-jack's.

"it's mine"
"no it's mine"
"i'm telling...let go of my hair"
"i haven't got any hair, that's coming from my nose"
"your nose??? i thought those were your balls???"
"i can't wait till mummy gets home"
"you're such a bitch"