myspace question/ attributes gained from grappling

I locked the myspace question because we've had several instances now of people coming on here, posting a load of utter cockdribble and ruining sensible debate and then coming back onto the forum when in a more sober frame of mind (or having been cybersausaged by me or one of you for being naughty) and editing their posts... so all silly posts on threads will get the thread locked so that the buffoons in question will have their idiocy preserved in the weberspace land.

By the way Im not referring to our Russian friend who for his own reasons decided to remove all his posts. Shame because he was a good forum contributor and his decision to do that made many good interesting threads redundant.

1. to all trolls who lurk: if your going to post nonsense, feel guilty and come back and edit it, why not just not post nonsense in the first place?

2. if I lock a thread it doesnt mean I dont want to have that discussion (unless you want to ask me about the Systema "if you dont know the difference between a compliant martial arts demo and fighting you need a brain transplant" DVD I did with the fat policeman. AGAIN ... yawn that shit WILL get locked)


I thought some good points were raised on the myspace thread... here are some questions for y'all (thats for my Texan client base )

1. some instructors regard the development of individual attributes redundant or undesirable for street focussed training- why do you think that is? do you think its right?

2. what kind of skills and attributes can we gain from grappling training that are pertinent to self protection?

3. Is there another way of developing these skills and attributes?

over to you lot


(Loki, come on, tell them what you told me)

The original myspace question was about why does grappler have the ability to act using their system and why some other martial arts fail.

Before I give my view on this I am speaking purly about the discussion of attributes and not about the boring and repetitive discussion of why you shouldnt go to the ground and why striking should be priority etc. This is not a striker or grappler whos better thing, just a discussion of attributes.

Reasons of why the grappler might be able to apply their skill more effectivley then example a boxer will. (Notice I say more effectivley as in fluidity of technique not the effectivness of the system.)

Strikers:

1. Sparring (Not pure grappling)with strikes invovled although can be very realistic, you still see trained people getting messed up by brawlers who throw mad punches at them, assuming with the emotional state involved in a fight the striker will not be able to move as fluid as he does in the ring.

Grappler:

2. Grappling, even in the form of sport, most of the time feels quite similiar to the way you see people "grapple" in the street (Go on youtube and see most street fight's "close range scruffles"), most grapplers will defeat most of the hold attempts by the "street fighter". Due to the similiarity of the enviroment, the stress the grappler experience can be less then the striker. So the training of the grappler provides a much more realistic feeling for the grappler and develops kinesetic body awareness that will have its use whenever you grapple. Anyone who do any form of grappling can tell you that everything comes very natural to them no matter its escaping holds or applying holds, switching from positions etc.
I beleive that you can put a wrestler in a headlock at 4 am and they will still be able to get out of it just by the attributes developed from grappling

To be continued

1. some instructors regard the development of individual attributes redundant or undesirable for street focussed training- why do you think that is? do you think its right?

That is a detriment to the student. Any instructor who stiffles the individual growth of a student is only hurting the student in the long run. My instructor had us make up a metrics card with the following headers:

Striking (Boxing, Kick-boxing)
Grappling (BJJ, Wrestling)
RBSD (Self-defense)
ITK (Knife Fighting)
ICS (Combat shooting) - The sytem I study covers four main components - Hand-to-hand, ground, knife, and combat shooting.

Each header consists of a column. Then you have 5 rows going accross. Level 1 being the lowest in regards to skill and 5 that you've mastered it. It's a way to gauge your own progress and helps you focus on what needs improvement.
In addition to the RBSD stuff, our instructor emphasises the need for, and encourages us,
to cross train - Boxing, Kickboxing, Muay Thai, BJJ/Grappling. Basically all the combat sports. There are skills there that are valuable and only enhance ones RBSD.

2. what kind of skills and attributes can we gain from grappling training that are pertinent to self protection?
The basics help tremendously:

1. Falling/hitting the ground. While not desirable in the street, learning to break a fall properly can minimize injury.
2. Learning to defend a take down - tremendous help in the street.
3. Protecting yourself when you're the underdog and learning to get back up as quickly as possible. Worst thing that can happen in street fight with multiple attackers is getting taken to the ground.
4. Controlling your opponent...if he's a brawler and happend to get lucky and take you down, with training you can dominate him on the ground and get yourself back up.
That is just for starters...

3. Is there another way of developing these skills and attributes? Get your ass kicked enough times in the street that you learn not to let it happen the next time????...I honestly don't think there is a substitute for good training.