Graduated/Graded Strategies

When i say graduated/graded [i'm hardly a thesausus, more of a dinosaurus]
...i'm reaching for the word that speaks to your quote Richie

which was[from another thread]:

Weirdly in just the last 6 months Ive found myself getting into scraps again, and me- a grown up!, and its changed my perspective on a lot of things and one of them is that we should be training with more FLEXIBILITY in our application of use of force- from going nuclear right the way down to just pushing someone back into their seat and saying "NO! bad dog!"

i thought i'd put it somewhere else, however

i've been thinking about it lately because one of my students is soon going to be a cop.
i find myself differentiating my instruction [eg// once YOU'VE taken him down, public scrutiny will
expect to see you do this minimally...the rest of you lot kick the sh....] etc etc...

i've been teaching to explode first minimally. there's a woman out there that'll stab and there's a sniveling pee stained yeti out there. i've been thinking through my students, who i can't assume to
have good instincts. i've personally dished out a complete one-sided beating, only to stop short almost out of pity...only to have a showing emerge from it from someone that i assumed beforehand to be a metaphorical car with no-one behind the wheel.

the family lore of my bizzare family tree includes my maternal grandfather being literally stabbed in the back by the person who he assumed the least showing from. i grew up hearing the version of the noble man who had sorted out a domestic dispute on his farm only to be stabbed by the woman. i think it was some sneaky incrypted family code. i've since learned this took place in prison. the woman, well... i had to infer, because it was a two on one fight--i assumed the woman to be the perceived lessor threat.

rather then create a thesis around this. i think i make this choices all the time, but worry how to impart choices like this on others. maybe streetfighters could have a core that isn't flexible, the relaxing of stances could be as one's own ability to read all the body-language scripts accurately increases. in a situation of one-on-one only, where all the potential volatile landscape has been appropriately and reasonably factored in.

said another way. i think you must have weighed all this stuff up long ago and had a reason not to go light. now i'm projecting. i can't imagine affording this scrutiny to some of my students--other than to maybe hint that as one's skills increase, so should their ability to see other avenues of exploration. i had a 6 foot plus [well over 200 pound///can't do the 'stone' math just now, it's just been too long] push me with anger recently...my response, other than not having a say in an ingrained 'fence' like response, was basically to laugh it off and explain to him the reason for my not responding [more]--i said, "you're just not a threat to me, sorry...take that how you want". i opted to insult him, knowing on some level it could have been a mild 'baiting session' on my part, but not without telling him there'd be no 2nd chances to test the waters. i think [for me at least] confidence must have something to do with it, but if the same thing happened with one of his friends showing intent...i might think [i'll never know for sure] that some other response was more appropriate.

for me anyway...it's all out first impression [for my students] with mercy being a factor of skill, experience--weighing up the threat-landscape. but i'm not weighing down a mind-f*&k [which i do
find really appropriate]. i'm thinking of your example of picking your nose and checking your text messages whilst really being in a ready-to-launch mode. that's an image i can get with. it reaks of sadism--which feeds my unhealthy sense of humor [but i digress].

Quote :

said another way. i think you must have weighed all this stuff up long ago and had a reason not to go light. now i'm projecting.

yes thats true but I think what stopped me from going light was "fear"- if you look at Maijas bit on the other thread breaking down different styles and the spirit/psychology behind them I wonder if "Combatives" (umbrella term used with caution) doesnt actually unintentionally foster fear??

does that make sense? if the root intention behind the system and the assumptions behind the system are fearful/threatened it will manifest as "frantic" movement which will get a result (opponent backs off, falls over or covers up) but isnt exactly "precise" or subtle

obviously, beginners arent looking for precise or subtle- they DREAM of the day they can make people back off fall over or cover up but for those of us who have been at it longer I think we can expect more from ourselves in a purely combative context without going straight back to the grab bag of martial arts experience we individually have- ya dig? or is this just coming across as babble?

i dig and agree...hardly babble

i think the "combative" explosive stance goes to the root of what will bring the most
success in the broadest terrain, from the least and most skilled among us. as a core
it is the rock of gibralter--it soundly raises everyone up to speed.

what i think you're saying and agree with is that as we become more metaphorically
at ease with the terrain, it behooves us to refine and discriminate if we are able to
see clearly other options that do not take a toll at our expense.

said another way (ha ha). we'd start looking like bullies if it became obvious that occasionally
all we had to do was shove someone back and say, "sit...good doggy"...and..."stay...stay...
off you go then"

[way off topic...when guys irritate me i often ask for something assertively, then follow
up by saying, "good boy"...or by calling them a girl's name while i ask...uhm, i think i have to work
on this piece a bit in my defense, i tend to know these people, they're not usually
total strangers]

i think as an aside to maija's sound piece, which i only got a chance to quickly skim last night,
i was thinking that it didn't remove ego, but it was a kind of refining. sort of moving to the kind
of thought that didn't assume inferiority--any more than a good chess player being more than
secure in his/her selfworth and ability. i assumed it would take years for this kind of subtle skill and
therefore may not be for those whose primary concern is in the 'imidiate' catagory but rather something
to work on after a sound set of basics in nasty has been engrained.

as for the fear bit. i think that even as it fosters fear, this is practical and a burden. i'm not sure
[me anyway] it's an option because i always train for some idea of what to do in the worst case
scenario.

i hope [not there yet] that after years of the stuff, i can replace the fear by simply SOP confidence.
being switched on started that way for me. first explosive and a bit paranoid, after a while more at
ease sort of 'geoff-thompson-esque' working the fence into daily movement all day.

to be honest. the less i fight, the more i go back to fear/anger foundations of my personality. the more
i either fight, or train in ways that really test my metal, the more comfortable and detached i feel in general. i think i'm officially going to start rambling now, so i will now push the button behind my big right ear and turn off the mental computer and await further instruction...BEEP

Well it seems like Russell Sage's 2 threads are starting to merge into one and I have become confused as to what I should put where .... perhaps I will start, like leaving a message on an answering machine, and just hope I get to the end of it without tying myself into knots and sounding like a complete idiot ...
Anyway,
..... Fear. The most primal emotion perhaps? And one of our greatest motivators. Fear of pain and death drives much of our behavior. Some of this behavior is healthy, some is not.
It seems that the basic modus operandii of 'combative' systems are based on a way to overcome fear, a pretty natural emotion, though one that can get you hurt severely if it incapacitates you at the crucial moment.
Apart from a fear of actual pain, there is also the fear of the unknown and the untried, which I guess would be more like anxiety, felt before any real danger is apparent. Neither of these states are of any use if you are fighting to save yourself, and I appreciate the methods that have evolved in recent years, particularly by Richie and others, that try to overcome this hurdle.

It struck me quite out of the blue one day in a situation that had nothing to do with fighting. I was driving with a friend who is a really obnoxious tailgaiter. Traffic on the freeways around here is pretty hectic, not just fast, but unpredictable and moronic to boot. Anyway, I found myself tensing up, closing my eyes and kinda looking away when he was getting super close to someone or doing something equally stupid. My moment of enlightenment came when I suddenly realized that if we DID hit the car infront, or got hit by someone else, all this tensing, closing eyes and looking away was 1) not going to help the situation AT ALL, and 2) In fact it would probably end up getting me injured more!!! DUH!

So, I realised, alot of what we do 'naturally' to 'save' ourselves is stupid, BUT that we can overcome it by training. I do believe however, that to overcome fear, the training has to be 'a blunt instrument', it has to consist of something also present in the lizard brain that can compete with the fear, and I suspect that is why 'combatives' look like they do.

Now, later, when the fear is less and the front brain is more involved ...? Who's to say what the progression could be?

maija said//

Subject: Re: Graduated/Graded Strategies Today at 1:15 am

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Well it seems like Russell Sage's 2 threads are starting to merge into one and I have become confused as to what I should put where .... perhaps I will start, like leaving a message on an answering machine, and just hope I get to the end of it without tying myself into knots and sounding like a complete idiot ...


...
sorry mate, it's the meds. or my melting mind. see, in normal people's brains, there are all sorts of tributaries with little tiny toll booths and locks that take carefull negotiation to access one part with another. thoughts neatly arrange themselves like soldiers in formation
is that scientific???

my head is kind of like a dirty great protein shake, with all sorts of stuff one wouldn't mix in if in their right mind--luckily with added sugary stuff to hide all the spirulina, whey, flax powder, dog vomit and
vitamines

or...too much free flow under a time clock and not enough preparation. nah...probably the first reason.

i'm still hoping we can trade minds for a day. i had a boss once that accused me of getting him in a fight.
he claimed [he was shit drunk of course] that as we had switched caps early in the evening...all the crazy residue left in the hat spiked his temper and made him throw his drink at the bar tender. he was, or course, an idiot but the thought often recures as a 'what-if'.

Mmmmm ... dog vomit and vitamins ....sounds handy in the right situation!