Atienza Kali-Mass Attack Strategies

Came across this on the "Youtube".I have an opinion on some of the Strategies/Tactics shown but i'll post these later.However I would like others to view and give their opinions/observations first.

The attackers are being far less aggressive and explosive against the guy defending with the knives.As well are they suggesting we walk around with three knives? teh afct is if you let yourself get srroneded by thre guys you are going to have problems.You need to explode early, right away, as soon as the problem presents itself, trying to work to the one flank or the other.If a persons awarness was up they should ahve seen three guys coming at them and RUN!

Agreement with you Danite, once there was a convergence style hold up building for me...and although at that point in my life i didn't really have strategies like 'run' or anything else in my head, i was always one to be aware of things building--and people skulking. one was walking slowly--for me to catch up to him, the others were taking all available corners...and the end point was going to be an intersection. i didn't have to have much street sense to see it gathering speed.

i went up the middle of traffic, at a walking pace, sort of without thinking. they just stood there sort of
dumb-founded as if to say, "we didn't think of going through traffic"

i carried on that way until it was no longer necessary to do so. one of my students just had almost the
same exact thing happen. he watched as some split up--to head him off furthor up. he bolted and made it onto a bus. he was so proud of himself--with about 6 guys all running after him, that he went immediately to the back of the bus and smiled at them from the back window--balls.

but the point is, such a person will notice--if folks like me [back then] and my student did. it only takes tuning the radar just a slight turn toward the 'stay-safe' station. i've had many more like that, where no fight was necessary--but slightly different in conditions...just using my head and assuming that it wouldn't be hard to project a value system back onto them and give them a seed of doubt.

To be honest I can't be bothered to comment on the technical/tactical points of this video or the Atienza clan, other than saying it's pants. I'll just second what Danite and Russ said.

But.... interestingly I've see the main man in this video in person. I was visiting my family in new york and we were at a big mall up-state. I recognized him because this video had caused a massive stir on another forum I used to post on; one of the Atienza guys even came on to the forum to do some internet fighting. Anyway, I remember trying to spot how many blades he was carrying - couldn't see any. Must have been well hidden.

There was some heavier controversy surrounding their clan but I think i'll leave it alone as it's not related and is in the past.

I've also trained with the Sayoc group who they are kind of affiliated with. It was great fun, but totally non-applicable to reality.

In the beginning it looked realistic. Presenting a serious problem to figure out. but there seems to be a major difference in how they attack when they are trying to demonstrate their stuff. They no longer overwhelm and grab hold of the guy. IMO that is the real challenge of the group attack. The stomping is what kills you, but being grabbed by just one, then overwhelmed and off-balanced by the rest is how you typically end up there. When they take that out of the equation, and also move in slow motion, no wonder they make it look so smooth.

Russ, you know, there are certain things that really can only be dealt with by being aware and trying to get the "drop' on the bastards.if not then radical extreme action is needed, anything , anything at all to getoneself out of that situation ASAP.Awareness is the first line of self defence dont you think? Regards

Danite wrote:

Russ, you know, there are certain things that really can only be dealt with by being aware and trying to get the "drop' on the bastards.if not then radical extreme action is needed, anything , anything at all to getoneself out of that situation ASAP.Awareness is the first line of self defence dont you think? Regards

i totally agree...i think it doesn't occur to those who don't find it 'sexy-enough'...who are off the
back thinking of physically striking someone. whilst i can't honestly say i haven't been caught in
that trap, if one just takes a step back it really isn't hard to avoid most things that appear unmanagible
at first. Richie used to have a clip--teaching women's SD, where he was opposed to most trainings
taking as a given that one would end up in a choke/headlock/etc...if one is switched on, the chances
must go down logorythmically. just the other day, a guy i knew thought it would be a real gas
if he snuck up behind me and attempted to grab me. as i was not in an area that meant my guard should go up, i guess i was switched off--but not totally switched off. the guy got a very fast and nasty
elbow to his ribs before his hands came to a clamp/shut. i was fully turned into him and ready to go machine gunning on punches. even half-awareness goes a long way. needless to say we all the wiser for it . he needs to find a new source of humor, i need to take in my surroundings even when i don't think it's necessary. usually that's the case, ironically.

that naughty boy in me isn't totally miffed by the experience--i feel sort of blameless and with a touch of 'okay, that's how i'd react'.

I agree with RichardB. I think they are building an error into their thinking when a) they slow down, and b) they think their attackers will stop, or even notice after they've been stabbed.
I think the scenarios at the end of the clip, would actually look the same as the ones at the beginning, but with more blood.

Russ, well those types of experiances can be valuable,when we get a really live drill totaly unscripted in any way, like when my 11 year old daughter jumped out at me from behind a corner door last week.Total suprise!,what I did like was that my hands went up right away,glad to see certain reactions have becoem so ingrained that they occur without any thought,thats a good thing.Often its being able to react effectively from the get go that can make the difference.Regards

Danite wrote:

Russ, well those types of experiances can be valuable,when we get a really live drill totaly unscripted in any way, like when my 11 year old daughter jumped out at me from behind a corner door last week.Total suprise!,what I did like was that my hands went up right away,glad to see certain reactions have becoem so ingrained that they occur without any thought,thats a good thing.Often its being able to react effectively from the get go that can make the difference.Regards

i know what you mean...i had a karate teacher in Britain [oxford] who i got on with. no competitions.
not geared for anything other than self defense. i sort of didn't know why i like him so much, now i do.
he told me a story once of his wife bringing him tea--he had afforded himself a 'spaced-out' moment,
and this was a guy who played zen games of walking up the street mindfully [antithesis of said spaced
out state]. he spun around from the shock and knocked the tea out of her hand--they were both quite
a bit freaked out. i'm not sure he shared that story with everyone

he had the reactions there--and enough stops in place so as not to lose himself to them...i guess he
went without his tea that evening i always thought that was the saddest part of the story

I never drank much tea untill I shared an apt with a brit way back when.Tea is like a sacrement for the Brits it seems and he was very religious.Well he got me drinking tea and I developed a taste for it ever since!

Danite wrote:

I never drank much tea untill I shared an apt with a brit way back when.Tea is like a sacrement for the Brits it seems and he was very religious.Well he got me drinking tea and I developed a taste for it ever since!

my dad's side: all irish/scottish--under the monikar british for our claimed home
my mum's side: mixed south africans who were colonial to the core

tea was all day, during all temperatures, always with milk and sugar--greatfully with
indian food as well [it's origins regarding all things milk and sugar]

my mum was notorious for taking the mickey out of folks. when i was into sports fighting, my mate and i had a really big tournament to get to. the sort where if you're doing okay you might have about 6 to 8 fights just to get some garbage trophy. i was in character for it but my friend was completely unnerved.
my mum knew he held ridiculous ideas about our family and was gullable. she made us all tea but concocted that it was bush tea and carried with it power in battle--i was nearly shitting myself trying not to laugh. he drank our all day drink with reverence and never performed better in his whole sports career. i tease him about it still. bush tea--try twinings.

I don't really fully identify with any particular race but being half English and half Bengali, tea is integral to my life lol.

I must say I do feel quite English (and i little proud as well I think) when I've tried 'tea' in other countries and complain that you can't get a decent cup outside the UK. (I have yet to go to Bangladesh though -I'm sure It'll be fine there)

Milk and two sugars please!

i know this thread is unwinding like a ball of yarn that a cat is playing with--perhaps
befits the original subject matter ...but now you've gone and made me think of
food Shar--which isn't a hard thing to do

...ever frequent spittalfield(s)[sp?]...that place is the dog's bollocks for a good curry.
when i was still in the u.k., it was vindaloo, but the last time i went, i found level of
heat that began with a 'ph'...phal or something. the guys heard my accent, and it's
unmistakible american overtones [from my years here], and felt the need to tell me
i'd have to pay for the meal even if i couldn't eat it. the challenge was made, and
let me tell you--ashrams aside, i've never been closer to nirvana .

it'll be the first stop when/if i get back any time soon.

okay--now i'm drooling, and late for work. but it was worth the flashback. all my
childhood experiences [as well] point to Brit, in spite of my varied background as
well. i hear you have family in NY...think of visiting DC mate. or upstate--where i
go on the summers.

your comment about race--it's meaningly socio/political construct anyway. there
is more variation within a so-called race [genetically speaking] then the minutia
of a half-dozen melanin tanning genes. it's all utter bollocks, but some obviously
need it to get through their days...god forbid they should focus on merits.

Quote :

...ever frequent spittalfield(s)[sp?]...that place is the dog's bollocks for a good curry.
when i was still in the u.k.,

Gotta disagree there.... the best place for a curry is my place! And yep, that's an invite! It's not difficult to get me thinking about food either - cooking and SP are equally strong interests of mine. About to go and make a treacle tart when I get off this laptop.

Quote :

it'll be the first stop when/if i get back any time soon.

That would be great. Don't think there are many UK residents posting on this forum, but I'm always up for a get-together.

Quote :

i hear you have family in NY...think of visiting DC mate. or upstate--where i
go on the summers.

Yeah my family are upstate NY actually (Rockland kind of area I think) Funny me and the other half are debating whether to go up for new year. My only reservation is that I don't wanna be on a plane for 6-8hours with an energetic toddler

Shar,
that's awesome--count on it [the homemade curry].
we're in bolton landing [upstate NY] on the summers--this new years we
already have 'st.john virgin island' committed and on our
visa card. otherwise we're usually around--this carribean trip is anomylous
and highly anticipated.

i have yet to make treacle--the legacy went with my mum, although
she did give me some basics for a curry but i don't have the nack. i can
do it better than all my american friends but then...american don't really
understand curry sorry i said it.


our 3 yr old and 10 old--on an air plane...i'll let you know
how that goes , i don't blame you for remaining undecided
as of yet

back to work, me

Thats a funny story Russ.

Danite wrote:

Thats a funny story Russ.

humor in abundance in my family--both intentional and not my mum
could invariably be found stifling muffled humor she would then tell me about
later...like when dad attempted to 'hop' out of his trousers before coming to
bed. he was of course drunk and imagined himself skipping a step and being
able to come to bed in quicker time

one didn't laugh at my father openly, which gave rise to alot of breath
holding, until the right time

Sounds like you had an interesting house there Russ,nothing so colourful at my place!

Danite wrote:

Sounds like you had an interesting house there Russ,nothing so colourful at my place!

lively i would say

unlike your dad though, mine didn't think much of cops or criminals. he existed somewhere on his own
code of values. i got into trouble once with the police--once my dad figured out it wasn't one of those things that involved property or victims*, he slammed the door in the officers face and told me not to get caught next time


*pool hopping/fire-crackers/egg throwing/water-balloons at traffic/etc, etc, etc...little shit that i was

but God help me if i caused trouble at school--when i should be applying myself
or picking on someone, etc...

Sounds alot like my dad, as long as we kept it to "boys stuff" well then okay, but like you, if we got in trouble at school the teacher was ALWAYS right!!!!My father didnt accept arbitrary authority but when it was just authority well there was no wiggle room for the young Danite!!! " Son this is going to hurt me more than it is going to hurt you" Know what I mean!!!!

Danite wrote:

Sounds alot like my dad, as long as we kept it to "boys stuff" well then okay, but like you, if we got in trouble at school the teacher was ALWAYS right!!!!My father didnt accept arbitrary authority but when it was just authority well there was no wiggle room for the young Danite!!! " Son this is going to hurt me more than it is going to hurt you" Know what I mean!!!!

my dad's cursing up there in heaven, or wherever, and saying to himself,
"the little bastard wouldn't be so cocky with anecdotes if i was still around"




same outlook as your dad, so it sounds. he's the only one i've ever known to be able to
shoosh an entire movie theatre when folks are rudely talking over the show. an enormous
set of--well you know, that one.