Teenage Knife culture in England

A few sky news links:
http://senshido.savi.ca/viewtopic.php?t=5434
Serious shit..
If people would just focus on the foo foo instead of violence

But all kidding aside, in the close range, there's nothing more dangerous than facing the blade.
Warren

I expect it won't be long before the knife craze get's boring for these people and it turn's into the gun craze.

I remember speaking to a police community support officer about the laws on defending against a knife attack. I asked him if someone was to pull a knife out on me, would I be justified in ramming my skateboard into their head, and his answer was no.

He said you can only use reasonable force against a knife, and in court I would be asked why I didn't hit him in the hand to knock the knife out. I find this ridiculous as in the heat of the moment, when you realise someone is trying to kill you, you aren't going to be thinking about reasonable force, you will be putting the fucker down so they wont get back up.

But apparently this is excessive force and wouldn't pass in court. This is all what the community officer told me, he could of been wrong.

I think for a gun though, he told me any force is necessary, because guns can be fired from distances and within a split second. So if someone has a gun to you, you are justified in killing them basically. That is if you can prove it. If they have a mate with them who picks up the gun afterwards and legs it, your gonna be fucked.

I think more force should be allowed to be used against a knife attack, because knives are just as dangerous as guns in my opinion.

.

The law comes in at second place at best on my priority list. Health being the first. I'll do you little good if you follow the law to the expense of tactical sanity, likely resulting in someone reading your obituary with something like "He was a good boy. Followed the law to the end." A lot of good that'll do you...

If someone suggests something as absurd as "just" knocking the knife out of his hand, then that should immediately disqualify that individual from passing any relevant judgement on the case. As their thinking comes right out of the modern fairytales communicated through the modern medium of television. Modern equivalents of dragons, talking animals and that stuff. While I thankfully have no experience with the courtroom, it is a shame if this line of thinking is as prevalent as it sounds like. It seems absurd that adult educated people and a reputable institution like the judicial system should have hobgoblins of this nature lurking around in the open, but that's the human condition in a nutshell.

Knives, guns and multiples present a significant possibility of grieveous bodily harm or death. Be as merciful as you can afford, but never compromise your safety requirements. And unless you're so much stronger, faster, smarter and trained than the other guys that it's childsplay for you, then that means going in hard as the frenzied apes that we are, and that will be messy and ugly.

S.3 Criminal Law Act 1967:
‘A person may use such force as is reasonable in the circumstances in the prevention of crime, or in the effecting or assisting in the lawful arrest of offenders or suspected offenders or of persons unlawfully at large’.
So you do have lawful grounds to do whatever is needed to be done. NEVER TRUST A PCSO...glorified traffic warden!! (We dont like them ) If it is necessary, you do whatever it takes. Your argument is a good one. "Sorry your honour if I had not have done what I did I WOULDN'T FUC****G BE HERE!! You can honestly stand up on oath and say that, you feared for your life. (Not those EXACT words....judge might not like that )

I knew a police officer in essex who chased a 6ft 5 black man, known to be on steroids. When he caught up with him, the suspect pulled out a knife. After striking him all over the body with his ASP to no effect, he struck him in the head. Bit severe but he could have been killed. At the end of the day, job done. FU****G HUMAN RIGHTS BOLLOCKS!! !!

I agree with Richard and Dave. If someone pulls a knife on me….baton practice as far as I am concerned !!

DaveCollins wrote:

Ben, what the PCSO told you was utter shite. Don't be fooled by coppers and pseudo-coppers knowledge of the law. They know relatively fuck all.

If someone pulls a knife at you, you've got a good case for piling in with whatever you have to hand.

thank you Dave

people who arent qualified to give you advice, really should resist the temptation

knives are MORE dangerous than guns if american police statistics are anything to go by: a knife attack is more likely to leave you dead than a gun attack

if someone pulled a knife on me at close range with the attention to use it I would stop them by any means necessary

and worry about the legal consequences after in my long and healthy life

Quote :

in my long and healthy life

Kinda rubbish if your banged up though because the judicial system is so unreliable. But I take your point.

what makes you think the UK judicial system is "so unreliable"?

serious question as this is a popular viewpoint held by many people Ive spoken to in the UK and I think it stems more from sensationalist tabloid newspaper reporting than hard statistics

Ive had many dealings with the police and the judicial system over the years and all my personal experiences were positive bar one...

the merseyside police recruitment process- now that was a miscarriage of justice! why wont the bar stewards let me in???

seriously though I dont like the "UK judicial system is so unreliable" myth being repeated anymore than I like the "you cant defend yourself against a burglar in your home because they will sue you afterwards"
or
"all policemen hate all bouncers"

its just fucking nonsense

I was listening to Cherie Blair (former pm's wife and still practising judge for those outsied the UK who might not know) chat on Richard and Judy (daytime tv show) about knife culture in south london and I have to admit I was shocked and impressed

She isnt disconnected from the "real world" issues surrounding self protection ( a word she used frequently in the interview) and carrying a knife and she does understand very well that ever individual incident of violence has to be judged on its INDIVIDUAL CIRCUMSTANCES - that is how the law in this country works

she refused to go for blanket panacea style "quick fix" solutions like "everyone carrying a knife should get a mandatory prison sentence" and good on her... she is a Judge, she decides how and what sentences would be given, tell you what if she is exemplary of the UK judicial system we can all rest easy.

I would feel more than happy to stand in front of a judge like that and make a case for using extreme violence reasonably.

Ans so Southpaw, back to your last post: I feel very confident in the UK that if someone pulled a knife on me and expressed or demonstrated a genuine intent to do me or someone serious harm I would kick the fuck out of them with a clear conscience until they no longer posed a threat (whatever that may entail), stay silent until I had spoken to a solicitor and my next major concern would be the comebacks from the scumbags family not from the "so unreliable" UK judicial system who would supposedly:

"bang me up for only defendin' meself"

furthermore, I would rather be tried in the UK than anywhere else in the world

I rest my more than ample case, m'lud

humming "Rule Britannia" whilst sipping a cup of typhoo in the Costa del Crime

Richard Grannon wrote: if someone pulled a knife on me and expressed or demonstrated a genuine intent to do me or someone serious harm I would kick the fuck out of them with a clear conscience until they no longer posed a threat (whatever that may entail)

Spot on. Two very important facts that must be remembered and stand well in court!
Regards
Nick

http://news.uk.msn.com/knife-crime-are-we-afraid.aspx