"Stillness" vs Agression

Hi All,

'Fraid it'stime for another question - something that keeps coming up in training and I wondered what you al think about this.

Over the past few years of training I have always been told that the one thing that a truly good fighter needs is to find some kind of 'stillness' in what is a really aggressive and violent situation i.e. the fight. Now I get the feeling from some posts on here that there is a distinct difference in people's minds regarding 'self defence' and 'martial arts', almost that the martial arts are somehow airy fairy whereas self defence is the nitty gritty, the dark and low down dirty methods of staying in one piece regardless of what happens. I've always been told that one should aim to be calm even when the hackles are up and it's a dangerous situation - in this way a calm 'still' person will not flap, will not panic and will not let the situation over awe them. They treat training as the same as a real fight.

I've also been told that one shuld train with the same frame of mind that you want to have in an agressive situation - how you train is directly linked to how you act in 'real' life.

I'm wondering if this rings true with people who are perhaps doormen or security protection people in the affray. Do you go super-violent so every little part of you wants to destroy the assailant or do you keep a level head and do what is necessary? Can you get to the super-violent state and still remain calm? Does seeing the red mist descent help you or hinder you?

Anyone spare some insight?? Thanks in advance...

I think it is possible to be aggressive and calm at the same time. Remaining calm is important, because once you lose your temper, you have no control over the situation. I have always been able to keep calm during violent situations, however I do have trouble in actually commiting the vioent act towards attackers. No idea why though, something I have been trying to figure out for a while now.

Ahh I sense a slightly lengthy post from myself on this one.

Stillness, when threatened I go still, but not as in I stop functioning, I get a rush of what some may call "fear" where your body clenches and you feel a kind of adrenaline rush through your system. Stillness is the preparation for the aggression, in some cases for me.

Stillness, if I am threatened but am in a different mindset, I simply lock down, become focused, gear up and am ready - but do not get this "rush".

I think of the latter as better, but I'm not sure whether it is.

Quote :

Can you get to the super-violent state and still remain calm?

I believe this to be a contradiction and improbable, in my opinion and experience. I will illustrate with a very brief anecdote about an english teacher I have had. When angered she would blow - literally scream, shout, say crazy things, but as she proved one day she said "watch, i click my fingers and I am calm and we shall continue". Now the physical clicking of the fingers is a common outward sign of "the switch". I am sure doorman "switch on" as Bob Spour illustrates in a video with Richard, they gear up, get in a positive mental state and go. But when they go I am sure for some doormen they take a long time to cool down and do not know their limits. Others will "click/switch back" when told to be calm, when they realise the situation is under control. I think the switch is necessary otherwise one could slip too easily between mindsets making you a very volatile person.

Quote :

one thing that a truly good fighter needs is to find some kind of 'stillness' in what is a really aggressive and violent situation i.e. the fight

When boxing, I get an adrenaline rush and my heart pumps faster before a fight, I don't get a cold rush as I have mentioned earlier that spreads through my body, I get in the ring, and as I hit gloves- focus. Nothing else is key other than landing those punches, dodging or blocking theirs and not getting knocked out. That is focus - not stillness.

You don't need to be calm in a fight, you need to be focused. Anger can drive you through pain thresholds and draw on your body's reserves.

Stillness is, in my opinion, different as shown. For different situations and different people. But I do not see it as focus, nor as a state of calm.


- I may refine and expand on this post in the morning

just been warned southpaw has posted while I've been typing but I'm going to submit this before reading it, hoping for not too many repetitions

I think you're aiming for both at the same time (but as southpaw rightly says, calm is probably not the right word). one or the other on their own is useless.

On the outside you've got to be 100% commited and aggresive, but internally you have to try and at least control the fear within. I seem to be quoting Geoff Thompson a bit recently (and why not) but he talks about two things that are relevant to this.

The second enemy. ie, the inner doubts and fears. the voice that tells you you can't. The selfdoubt that drains your strength and resolve and makes you forget all the good work you did in the gym. That's where training in the right state comes in (I defer further advice on that to my learned collegues)

Also, he talks about the duck syndrome. The duck seems to be gliding effortlessly across the water. under the surface, there's some serious hard flapping going on. Pretty much everyone gets that. The tattoo faced nut job infront of you snarling and spitting has still got the adrenalin pumping and is battling his inner opponent. Again, there's some belting advice from Richie and Bob about how to control your inner fears and at the same time magnify theirs.

The big gift we get from these guys is an insight into how to reprogramme our selves to replace those doubts and fears with positive feelings. I'm sure your ancient Samuri who was trying to attain an inner peace while slashing through his opponent, all the time letting out a blood curdling scream was using the same techniques as Richie and Bob talk about. They just called it different names. Samuri would spend as much time painting or pruning bushes as they would training for combat. Traditional Chinese schools would have their students spend more time sweeping and painting the dojo or doing good work in the community as they would fighting. The training we do doesn't just go on in the gym. We have to spend a lot of our time training ourselves mentally, not just for our self protection, but for our mental health in general.

Anyway, just a few thoughts. As I said, I defer to the experts on the actual mental reprogramming advice

I just put the "No Doubt No Fear" DVD course on special offer... coincidence...

in answer to the question I prefer to use the term "tenacious resolve" rather than counterbalancing stillness vs aggression... you need to be aggressive but not slavering berserker, you need to be calmly capable of cognitive process but not "still"

its a bit of a word game this... as they say in english lit. class "D.Y.T."

what do you mean by "aggression"? has a different conotation in american than uk

what do you mean by "stillness"? like eckhart tolle zen awareness stillness or literally not moving?

You need to be a dick.

In the maelstrom of emotions and the many thoughts running through your brain at the time, there is an eye of calmness where you will be aware of all of the different thoughts.

Choose the mean thoughts and act on them. Be a dick. Seriously.
Nice guys do not win fights.

Carl Sagan wrote:

You need to be a dick.

Tha made me laugh out loud at work there for a minute. I do get what you mean about this and everything all other posters have put down. I'll be looking at that DVD you mentioned Richie, I guess I am someone who is not overly confident that I can learn what I need to learn from a DVD but if anyone can tell me otherwise then that's the way I'll be heading, I'm open minded on all that.

What I'm looking for essentially is to be able to control the fear of a fight so it doesn't mash me up inside creating a wobbling jibbering mess which is clearly no good. A confidence game really but I need to get some sense of this into my training otherwise I wonder if I am plodding on in an unreal 'training' world that will not matter two hoots should the shit one day hit the fan!

Great answers though! Being a 'dick' I assume also equate to a skip into animal agression, the fight or flight survival instinct where you really don't worry about what you are doing as long as you get out of there in one piece..

Oh, by the way, 'clicking' the fingers to turn on/off, is that a literal thing, you literally click your fingers to gear up??

Richard Grannon wrote:

what do you mean by "stillness"? like eckhart tolle zen awareness stillness or literally not moving?

By 'stillness' I am talking as in mentally still, not as in not moving. The stillness of mind to be aware of things and to prepare yourself for action. Not just standing there completely unmoving..!

DYT= define your terms

many a martial arts debate or training drill has gone off in a crazy direction simply because what a word means to one person doesnt mean the same to anthother

"stillness" and "aggression" are both open to interpretation

you can be in a determined/aggressive/resolved mindset and still be aware definitely, think of the mental state SAS / SWAT guys need to be in to do room clearing- that is worth modelling

can it be learned from DVDs and CDs?
well as the saying goes "all discipline is self discipline" and all learning is really self taught, you can lead a horse to water but you cant make him drink... "Psychology of Violence" CD set and "No Doubt No Fear" DVD sets are good places to start

Reading through the info on the DVDs you mentioned I've gone and ordered the Psychology of Violence as a starter Sounds like it covers many of the things I'm thinking about at the moment.

Nice one!

I know its my product so Im bound to say good stuff about it, but I fluffing love that CD... its tha absolute bollocks if you got persisent doubts/fears

if you are in the UK, you could go and see Mr Spour for a sociopathic brain washing appointment

It does sound like a good place for me to start on this so thanks for the pointer. It's also good that you believe in your product and the work that you do - if you didn't I'd be more concerned

I am indeed UK-based, working in Birmingham so maybe a brain washing session with Mr Spour could be a option!

Cheers,
Dan

you work in Birmingham? seriously mate, go and PM Bob and get a session set up, if you dont find it absolutely amazing for what you want (by amazing I mean life changing) I will give you all my NLP material (cds and dvds) for free.. see Bob.

Wow! That's some offer there mate I'll have a look into it I reckon. Sounds good to me

Wicked! POV DVD arrived and I've been having a good go through this - first thing to say is you've got a great balance in the information on here put in very easy to understand terms which is great news. I've had the mixed pleasures of being in a few NLP sessions with various trainers before and to be honest some of it has been either too fluffed up in terms of jargon that it has kind of missed the spot, the other times (probably because it is in a business coaching kind of vein) it has been businessified and to a certain extent kind of theoretical beyond it's needs.

So, this is refreshing that's the first thing

I've been playing around with the themes of managing your state and the couple of bits on there about setting the shallow trance state to then really ramp up the aggression/violence in my mind. This has been useful - and to be honest a little bit weird because even by doing this a couple of times I could really feel a change to the extent that whilst visualising I was getting quite het up, much quicker pulse rate for one and also breathing patterns changed- I am hoping this is all part of it?! It's amazing to think that the mind is as powerful as that and in every day use we kind of skirt over it and the way it can alter perceptions etc.

Just a quick question - as this is aiming at building that violence for a fight situation/conflict I also suppose you can do the complete opposite of this and set your state so you can calm yourself in extreme and upsetting circumstances? One thing that I have had in the past when in conflict - and this usually includes verbal conflict and arguments - is that I do get stressed to the extent that my heart is racing, I feel out of breath and out of control but not in a positive way, infact it is quite emotional and gets in the way! So, to overcome this do you reckon I aim on blowing this emotion away with a super ramped state or go for the opposite and just chill out?

Anyways, great DVD, first of many for me I hope and keep up the good work Richie