Eye Contact in avoiding conflict

Hi All,

New to this site so a quick hello and thanks for all the info on here, really useful bunch of posters by the looks of it. I thought that rather than lurking in the background I'd get straight in so I have something that has been on my mind for a while and wondered what people on here think (apologies if this is on the wrong part of the forum..)

I'm really interested in both the psychology and the physical side of fighting, now don't get me wrong, it's not that I am experienced in fights (which I still think is a blessing) but I do find myself fascinated by it all and am ever keen to find new things, new bits of information from those who know what's what.

Now, the old cliche/adage is that the 'eyes are windown to the soul' and I'm wondering what people think the score is on stopping conflict before it gets physical and how the use of eye contact can either exacerbate a situation or maybe do the opposite and move it away from physical conflict. I know it's one of those 'what if' scenarios anf there will be no steadfast rule. So, you're walking along and you come up to a group of lads (looking dogdy y'know, loitering etc) and you can feel the aggression or at least pick up on something that could turn ugly. What do you reckon is the best way to avoid physical in this situation - to eye ball them back or eyes down and get on your way, essentially ignore them? Eyeballing can be seen as a massive 'come on' in a way can't it? It can be seen by that group as a challenge or some kind of put-down right? On the other hand -to look away is submissive, could show you to be a soft touch which could make it more likely that the chaps sense an easy scrap and nice new mobile phone n wallet..?

Be interested to know what people think about this as I'm sure it has a lot to do with real situations. Reading into the NLP anchoring type stuff it would seem that a strong line of thought on this is to anchor yourself to a super aggressive state that will essentially put the would-be attacker off, cue loud 'fuck offs' a-plenty and liberal doses of 'STOP!' or 'Keep yer hands down'. Anyone had experience of the opposite of this - ie eyes down and on your way - in avoiding physical conflict?

Apologies, long first post...

I used to be the easiest target in the world, so shy of everyone and when I passed yobs I would get really nervous. I still do at times, but nowhere near as bad as I used to be.

I would always put my head down and hope I get ignored, but this is the wrong thing to do. It showed I was weak and would get me hassle. Got me beaten up a couple of times too. I've walked round my area and tried different ways of walking past people who I feel threatened by.

I've tried the stare into their eyes look, and aswell as making myself feel a lot more confident walking past them, it has worked, they have just looked away and then avoided eye contact with me until past me. I do feel a bit uncomfortable in knowing that some people do take it as a challenge, as you said in your post, so another way of 'dealing' with this would be better for me.

I think the best look, although very hard to pull off if it does not come natural, is looking like you dont care. They look at you and if you dont look the slightest bit bothered that they are there, if you dont look intimidated in the slightest then they know that they are no threat to you. I've found this to be the best, and least provoking way of passing thugs in the street.

To be honest though, I have great difficulty pulling off that last look, I dont know why but I just can't seem to not look bothered. I either have to stare at them with an aggressive look, which would one day get me beaten the shit out of, or I have to stare straight on or down, which gives the impression I am weak.

Yep, that's what I mean, it's a fine balance between having that totally unphased look or coming across all meek n mild and a bit of a soft target. I know what you mean about that look that kinda gives people the impression that you are completely not bothered, not agro but also not dismissive. A hard one to pull off especially if you are more than a little bothered! I am assuming this is where the NLP kinda stuff comes into it's own?

I very much keep eye contact if eye contact is necessary then break it, return it, break it e.t.c This gives the impression imo that i'm not staring at you trying to gear up a fight but am aware of you and am willing to deal with the situation if need be.

I think it comes down to judgement. I've had people eyeball me, and I've just stopped and turned and looked at them and said 'what?'. They just walk it or say some silly comment. Of course it could provoke a fight, but that is your judgement call from the start.

Remember fight psychology is a two way process. You contribute 50, he contributes 50, you both throw your mood/words/actions in to the equation so learn to throw accurate signals that show your intentions.

Southpaw, that makes a lot of sense. I suppose you could always do everything 'right' and give just the right amount of 'eyes' to someone to let them know you are there etc. and then they just turn out to be an absolute mentalist anyway who needs not a lot of encouragement to get nasty! The 50/50 is a good point.

I also guess that there is a danger in being someone you are not sometimes and the best bet may just be to follow instinct at the time. For example - if it's not in my nature to be super aggressive then I will be quickly noticed if I am pretending/putting on a fake show.

All very interesting.

You don't want to walk around with your head down. And you also don't want to walk around glaring at people like you will kick their ass.

But learn to walk confindent, keep your head up.. and make eye contact with people.. if they start at you either smile, or do the little head nod.. or maybe just say hi in some situations.

Usually one or two things happen, they will talk to you, like say hi back, or nod or smile back. Or just ignore you and keep walking. Either way there not wanting to fight you usually..

If your comfortable enough with it to just nod or smile, they can see that, but if your stuck staring then it could be seen as a challenge.

Though if you hold eye contact with a woman (remember to smile) try not to look down first.

I heard something good the other day, men make eye contact with you to see if you will be submissive, women make eye contact to see if you will be dominant (so its ok for them to be submissive).

There you go, 2 lessons in 1

KickTheirButts, nice reply, I like that. It is true I guess because there is something very visible about someone who carries themselves confidently and it sends certain messages to people. Not sure what I think about the men-submissive, women-dominant idea, in terms of what they are looking for, as it seems a little generalised but certainly food for thought.

good thread, interesting responses

ever notice how if your in the middle of a really important mobile phone conversation, whilst late for a meeting and quick marching through crowds of people you never notice the whole eye contact issue never comes up?

those of you who are doormen ever notice that sunday nights seem more full of arguments than saturday nights? now are they really or is it just that the club is so quiet you notice every little thing?

every time the issue of eye contact pops into my head its an indication of just one thing to me: Im giving to much of my precious mental attention to bullshit ego based "problems"

if the person is looking at you, then look at them and say "hi" and smile... if you were already checking out their pecs and they look at you, then it behooves you to politely turn away or go back to step number one

if someone is making you feel uncomfortable then DO something about it... I had this situation with Loki just the other day, and in the end it was quite funny, (partly because we took "frame control")

Not every situation is a "fight waiting to happen"... some people may be a bit touched in the head, or they fancy you, or they like your shirt, or they are staring through you whilst thinking about kelly brook covered in syrup... but you'll never know until you engage in some way

an old german guy just did it to me 30 minutes ago, he came up behind me a bit quiet and i looked at him (probably slightly moodily, didnt mean it) and then turned away, he made a point of getting my eye contact and saying "hello" forcing me to play my hand and either be a dick and say "fuck off you old bastid" or do as I did and just say "Hiya"

good advice gents

but I would say you dont need to give people the "tough clint eastwood eyes" that often, its very unlikely that will scare away a real threat anyway, act innocent, play dumb or play very busy and occupied

in the words of shakespeare

"look like the innocent flower, be the serpent under it"

its what all good ninjas do, hide their intentions... this is the ninja forum isnt it?

if you feel these questions coming up its a good indication you are slipping into a negative emotional state... paranoia and the demons of insecurity assail you.
Its commonplace, dont worry about it, but also dont let it control you.

Richard Grannon wrote:

in the words of shakespeare

"look like the innocent flower, be the serpent under it"

So that you can just wait for the moment, like a snake, right?

i had a similarish scenario a good 5 months ago and its stuck in my head since, i was gettin off the bus by china town and there were 2 smackheads in the bus shelter. instantly i went onto the back foot and was really negative thinking ''aww crap these guys would probibly rip my arm off for some smack'' so i balled my fists thinking well ill show them ive seen them and that im pretty much intending to crack anyone who might divert my attention from where i was going. (which was to see my psch but thats another story) i decided to walk along the outside of the bus shelter thinking ill keep some perspecs between me and them. as i was walking past one of the smack heads who was eating a pack of space raiders (odd detail) tapped on the glass with a full mouth and pointed indicating to my balled fists, i gave him a quick glance then walked on past. nout happened.

So all in all my behavior was pretty unessisary and infact drew more attention to me which was not my intention, so reflecting on it smack heads are switched on constantly and agressive body language will deffinitly get their attention. recently i have resorted to the typical scanning the area im in with a light smile on my face, which doesnt seem to draw any attention if im assessing who might be going to fuck around.

Another time that springs to mind was somone walking past me in town, they really set my teeth on edge with their body language, there was somthing out of the ordinary about it and they were moving too close for my likings, the guy basicly moved really quickly past me and i was expecting to get cracked by him but decided to put alot of thought into how he was moving. but that made me glad i didnt just try and crack him before what i thought was an incomming attack, which turned out to be nothing. All this took place in a split second but left a sour taste in my mouth for a while.

if you think someone is going to give you a dig and they are in range, move out of range, if thats not possible raise your hand casually to your face and scratch your eyebrow/forehead

if you do any reaction drills against punches you will know this can make all the difference in the world- getting your hand from pocket level to head level to cover a punch faster than someone can punch you is pretty hard, if your hand is already there, its much easier

smack heads... funny creatures... if waiting or scouting for smack can be hypervigillant and switched on, they no ego/sense of shame and little sense of self preservation... they also seem to be able to absorb a lot of punishment either as a by product of the drug or the lifestyle (they get hit a lot) I do not know... just avoid them, they can be twats but if you hit one god knows what you will catch... dont bother trying to intimidate them, it wont work

smile more, chat to more strangers and try to have a good time... do you all know how to manage your state properly? getting into a good state requires conscious effort , but its worth it

funny you say that Richie. In order to practice the state drill you did with us at the seminar I've been practicing with relaxed rather than aggressive states.

Practicing the self hypnosis and then the detailed imagining of scenarios is much easier when theres a nice feeling at the end of it,. When I get better at it I'll start using it more for the aggressive state.

For the purposes of physical training, particularly heavy pad work, I've never really had much problem summoning up some fury. Its getting the adrenalin really pumping before preasure drills that I'll use the anchoring for.

I've also come up with an interesting use of NLP anchoring that I'll PM you about ;-)

I seem to have got the right balance in eye contact right. Theres a footbridge i have to go across on the way home parrallel to a bridge for cars and people used to get mugged cos the bridge had high sides and no-one could see onto the bridge in their cars, but they changed that and one bit was missed so no-one can see. So i was walking back and 3 shifty blokes were on the covered bit staring me dowand moving across the bridge from side to side but i got there and just looked at them like they were anyone else and kept walking and got away with one of them just muttering something. sorry for going on a bit.

When you talk about 'managing your state' is this a term for your frame of mind ie positive, negative, aggresive etc. You'll have to forgive me as I'm new to some of this stuff, dead interested but if anyone can signpost me to the right points for info I would appreciate that This is cool, great answers coming from people here. Smackheads is thankfully something I do not get to see being a country-bod, the nearest thing is a cider-pissed farmer cranky from lack of sleep in the lambing season. However, I do venture into Birmingham quite a lot with work and I think this is where my problem comes from really because I am just not used to it! I think that this is just a confidence thing as nothing bad has happened while being there. I did have some shitty experience years ago with a couple of guys attacking me and a mate with broken bottles and that I think has kinda stuck with me for a long time.

Any tips on the 'state' would be good though..I assume this is something I can do alone as part of my training?

yeah, managing your state is an essential skill, something I should do a cd... and yes it is an aspect of NLP that you can work alone, doing NLP on yourself would probably another really good cd topic

I have so much trouble managing my state. It seems like an almost impossible task to accomplish. Once mastered though it would be one of the most useful tools. It's no good trying to fight if your in a worried or scared state of mind.

Lemme know if/when a CD is done for this then and I reckon I might hoover one of those up for a bit of a knowledge injection!

Cheers,
Dan