Swine Flu Part 2.

Your a Diamond!

Got my son staying & gonna put on a movie. So If I dont speak to you again, please have a great weekend camping & take it easy.




Matt

Just to clarify... I didn't mean anything by the vaccine reaction video, conspiracy or otherwise. It was pure coincidence that I came across it while this discussion was taking place, so I posted it. That is obviously an extremely rare reaction and it was rather startling as to the reaction the girl is having from the vaccine. I mean she can't walk forward, but can run and walk backwards, very strange.

Blackops... the camping is next weekend

Mike2010 -
Head right on to, perhaps, the off topic section and feel free to start a thread. I think the issues have cross over points ... so who knows, threads may tend to merge anyways.
As everyone knows, the written word is a limited medium for conversation, so issues that attract strong opinions are a dodgy field on this 'ere interweb thingy.
So far so good here - I think there seems to be a general understanding that the conclusions are not the main agenda here, just bigger brains.

...

Oh, and Blackops.... why don't you just change your username to Matt, man? When you sign your name Matt I don't know what to refer to you as in my posts lol. Keep the Mr T pic and that way we'll all know it's you. Love that pic by the way, Mr T is my hero.

Roadkill, All cool. Assumed you put it up cos it is relevant to the discussion, which it is.

Mike, sorry if I'm going off topic, as Maija says conversations here, much like real life tend to meander about.

Thankyou Maija.

Danite, I'm with you. Always like listening to other people's conspiracy theories & shining a little light on them.

Sharif, not meaning to & hopefully not appearing as if, I'm having a go. Because I am not.

I just get a little annoyed when medicine gets discussed & dismissed by people who are here because of it.

& MMR is not a lifestyle choice. Measles, Mumps & rubella are very serious life threatening diseases. A little research will show you that. Swine flu is an unknown & that is partly why the panic, its lethality is uncertain but does that mean you should risk ignoring it? Past health scares have shown that we cant afford to take chances.

A lot of people have the attitude that it is all a fuss about nothing because nothing in their experience has caused them to feel threatened by disease. Try living in the third world with out access to preventative medicine & healthcare. Do you think they view the enormous child mortality rate and heavily shortened lifespan as a good thing?

The things that protect you sometimes are invisible to you, dont think them valueless because of that.

Sharif, Blakops/Matt is that really so confusing? I know roadkill is called phil but I assume I can manage to remember both names & to whom they refer.

And what do you want get off the thread for? The thread was about swine flu and the panic relating to it. You appear to think it is about control & I think it is something that should be the concern of govt because diseases are an actual threat.

Can I have the links to fear on MMR? I'll swap you for mine

No-one is bundling you in a van. That panicky sensation, your feeling? that is someone asking you to back up your arguements & you only being able to pull out shadowy figures from some new world order.

Be cool Mate, it's just a discussion, not a trial

...

BTW Did anybody actually check out the info in this site I posted in the first response in this thread?

http://www.theflucase.com/

Okay Sharif, I leave it to you then, justt rying to have a well intentioned conversation,I am not out to "argue" just talk,Regards Buddy

Sharif H wrote:

BTW Did anybody actually check out the info in this site I posted in the first response in this thread?

http://www.theflucase.com/

Yeah, that site makes me feel.... nervous lol. When I'm done work tomorrow I'm going to go through it a little more thoroughly.


The conclusion I was mildly 'attempting' to draw from my own experience and why i started the thread was basically in response to a lot of 'young' people freaking out and going "Zomgz!! teh swine flew iz like, a young person killer... we're all gonna die... and prom is next week!! oh teh fail!"

Children and the Elderly are generally 'weaker' and more susceptible to strong virus' and diseases. I think Vaccines in cases of Diseases are definitely a good thing. I like not having Typhoid lol.

I think Vaccinations for Virus' are a little over the top. Healthy people are panicking trying to get them. I consider my self healthy. I'm in my late 20's, go to the gym 3-4 times per week, try my best to eat right and take vitamins. The swine flu was a mild irritation for me since I was boosting my immune system naturally in anticipation.

I have never had a flu shot in my life, nor do I plan to get one any time soon. Yes I occasionally get the seasonal flu in which case I stay home and fight it off. In the long run I think my immune system is in better shape doing things naturally.

I think if the swine flu is that dangerous for people with existing health problems, then they should get vaccinated, if a safe vaccine can be provided. I don't consider a rushed vaccine that doesn't even get approval in some countries (hi switzerland) and contains mercury to be all that safe. Not with the very real possibility that such vaccines have led to a sharp rise in things like autism.

I think that considering how many people die of the seasonal flu every year (36,000 in the US alone) that this whole swine flu craziness is just benefitting the pharmaceutical companies.

Quote :

Danite: Okay Sharif, I leave it to you then, justt rying to have a well intentioned conversation,I am not out to "argue" just talk,Regards Buddy

It's all cool .

Quote :

"Zomgz!! teh swine flew iz like, a young person killer... we're all gonna die... and prom is next week!! oh teh fail!"

With regards to usernames, I think we can all agree that Mike2010, RichardB, and Richard Grannon made it simplest (Especially 'Richard Grannon'). Bit foolproof really. Sharif (or should I say 'tacpro'), is a latecomer to the righteousness, and Maija, DMB, Roadkill and co are all evil wrongdoers out to cause mass confusion and hysteria.

Sharif, first of all I understand the position you're in with regards to having a young son, and why naturally you need to safeguard him. We can all agree that there is more to our respective governments than meets the eye, and if anyone has a 'gut feeling' about something then it's definately right to research and educate yourself on the subject if it may directly affect you, which is what you did with the MMR jab.

Secondly I understand your position in this thread, like Maija said forum based chat isn't the best way to explain a point, especially not one as apparently far out as questioning the relevance of the MMR vaccine.


With regards to the www.theflucase.com I had a look as soon as I read your post. I'm with DMB on this one, it also made me feel ..nervous. I'm certain that it's not the only link you have with shocking theories about the swine flu, and if you've got any others please post them here, i'm interested in the implications or possible motives (as well as futureproofing my health, if it's possible).

On the subject of theflucase.com it seems that it's the website of one woman, Jane Burgermeister, who was fired from her job as a correspondent for a website, Renewable Energy World 'after filing a series of criminal charges against Baxter [pharmaceutical co producing the Swine Flu vaccine], WHO and others alleging bioterrorism with the intent to commit mass murder.'

This directly ties in with any 'conspiracy' sort of sentiment related to the vaccines for the flu. Originally I thought that www.theflucase.com was a bit of a sensationalist site that was playing to a specific audience (and i'm sure some of it is).

Then I read this report on a 'natural news' type website. the point we've got to bear in mind is that if the statements contained are true then we live in a worrying time indeed.
http://www.naturalnews.com/026503_pandemic_swine_flu_bioterrorism.html

It irritates me that when people write these things they don't present the other side of the argument. The link above seems to contain all one sided presumptions (albeit logical presumptions and containing some 'facts' which, if true, present deliberate conspiracies).

Quote :

In the U.S. since 2008, Burgermeister charges that those named in her allegations have implemented new and/or accelerated the implementation of laws and regulations designed to strip the citizens of the U.S. of their lawful constitutional rights to refuse an injection. These people have created or allowed provisions to remain in place that make it a criminal act to refuse to take an injection against pandemic viruses. They have imposed other excessive and cruel penalties such as imprisonment and/or quarantine in FEMA camps while barring the citizens of the U.S. from claiming compensation from injury or death from the forced injections. This is in violation of the laws governing federal corruption and the abuse of office as well as of the Constitution and Bill of Rights. Through these actions, the named defendants have laid the groundwork for mass genocide.

For instance, nobody could deny that this is worrying. Can anyone back this up with concrete information?

If I have time, i will do some digging on that lot Mike.

Sharif, you worked in alternative health care? Ok. You like vitamins & minerals & "natural" cures? Your choice. Though just in case you didnt know, at base, they and everything in the natural world are made from chemicals. "chemical" is a term to refer to somethings basic constituents. Chemicals are what atoms make

Yeah I use the smiley a lot because I am aware that the written word when not re-read & re-read & edited can come across in a manner that was not intended.

As an aside. Its not actually the disease that kills you. It is your own immune response, attempting to rid you of the bug.
If the bug is virulent or you have not developed antigens to cope with it or the diseases reproduction rate is high enough, your immune response keeps ramping up its actions to deal with it. Unfortunately this will effect the processes & chemicals in your body that keep you alive day to day & sometimes cause them to breakdown. This is why new diseases for which we have not developed an immunity are dangerous for fit & healthy people. Your immune response does a better job, i.e. it makes the environment of the body more toxic to deal with the invader, affecting your own bodys processes as a consequence.

That is natural.

Strange that alternative health always seems to denigrate science.

Honestly you win, i am going to stop before someone mentions complimentary medicine & I really go off on one

Good weekend Everyone.

Matt

Mike2010, don't know if there are plans to amend the laws, but right now if you want to send your child to public school in the USA, you must provide proof that your child is up to date on their vaccinations. However, you can be exempt from this if you sign paperwork saying that you object to vaccinations on religious grounds. I have several friends who do this. What's funny is that one of the families is Atheist.

Karunamama.

I understand both yours & Sharifs worry, that you just want to do what is right for your child. I'm a dad too.

I'm sorry but vaccination can never be a hundred percent safe. I wish it could, I really do.

It is a choice that as a parent you have to make & personally something I would & have done, for my own son.

We are surrounded by millions of bugs everyday, some of them are very nasty. We need protection from them through vaccination especially when young & at school because children have not developed the natural immunity to them & are in a crowded environment, pre-school & school where these pathogens are easy to pass on.

I would advise talking to an actual medical doctor & getting their opinion. Not a complementary or alternative health practioner.

May I ask what immunisations they want before you start school in the states?

Over here most immunisations were given at school, when I was a kid 24 years ago, not sure if that is still the state of affairs.

I am going to ask my sons school about that Monday, just because this topic has made me wonder.

Blakops,

I do vaccinate my son, just have some friends who choose not to. Sorry, should have clarified that. I space out his shots, though, so if they want to give him two on one visit, I tell them I'll bring him back in a week or two for the next one. I do plan on letting him get the H1N1 vac in flumist form, since that doesn't contain thimerosal like the shots do.

Kids entering public school need to proof that they've been immunised against diphtheria, pertussis, tetanus, polio, measles, mumps, rubella, haemophilus influenzae type b, hepatitis B and varicella.

I'm with Sharif on avoiding conventional medications unless absolutely necessary. The doctors here are much too ready with their prescriptions, especially when it comes to painkillers and antibiotics.

hello

poltics and religion, twist knickers faster than you can squeal "psychological wedgie"

Quote :

And i assume that you had vaccinations before you travelled to the Phillipines? I assume that Ritchie has.

Absolutely not sir.

Courage of my convictions and all that.

Quote :

This may be a cheap cry for help from the individual who is losing the metaphorical street figth against multiple opponents but I do have a feeling that Richie probably understands what I'm getting at better than anybody else here on the forum. He understands the agenda (although I don't know if he believes it's true) and therefore can read between the lines of what I'm saying to you guys. But as it is, we are communicating on two different levels. It's like trying to have common-sensicle conversation with somebody who is stoned.

Sharif, tut tut, you may'NT charge into a battle unprepared and without completing your trainings and then when taking a kicking cry out for help from Sifu.

Sifu's heart is black and knows no mercy. Thick Face, Black Heart Sifu makes Pak Mei look like a kindergarten nurse.

You must die valiantly "I have run out of argument, give me a soldiers death at least"

and you may'NT say things like "It's like trying to have common-sensicle conversation with somebody who is stoned." and thereby imply that your foe is high on drugs or there wits are impaired- tut and tut

50 push ups to be completed within 3 minutes followed by tabatta burpees, feel the sting of my zen cyber stick

But well done for trying. Hard word sparring, preparing you for the propaganda battle *insert raspy texan voice* "because their is a war on for you miiiiiind"- is good for you

but you recieved pwnage.

I like it. At least you got in there.

I think the problem with forumland is we cant see each other and her each others voices, feel the intent behind the words.

Some folks be young and ideallistic and still developing their ideas about the world, some folks be older and more crusty and want to remind us that we shouldnt take for granted what "da system" gives us, daily.

Some folks be liberal, some conservative, some for the people, some for the system.

This thread got confused by post number 4, because people have a lot to say about the issue and it all needs saying, nothing superfluous here so far to my eyes.

And now

forum zen

by chubby harsh Sifu Richie

"an idea is attacked, you are not attacked

feel yourself detached from the idea

floating

like a fart

in a space suit

you are not the idea

you are not the attacker

you are the fart

hold your breath!

but eventually you must die or smell farts

you are not your stance

you are not your politics

you are a fart

in a space suit

floating only floating

in eterntity"



Russ, bang the gong, I have spoken

5 minutes meditation for everyone, repeating the mantra "I am not my thoughts, I am only floating gas"


then return to focus

who will recieve vaccination for swine flu

not I

I will wear a face mask as I see many of my asian brothers do

it is well known that viruses arent more likely to get in through your eyes than your nose and mouth and that viruses are so large they cant just swim right through those masks anyway

viruses are massive, like small floating ping pong balls that bounce off face masks

wear a face mask

you need it



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/swine-flu/5245206/Swine-Flu-Face-masks-will-not-stop-the-disease-spreading-experts-warn.html


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/swine-flu/5239353/Swine-flu-NHS-orders-32m-face-masks.html

but there is no agenda

no

they are just here to round up the cattle

oops

I mean "help the people"

OMG....



that actually made me laugh out loud that was classic hahahahah

...

Bollocks I wrote reply & then lost it.

Ritchie, thanks for the laugh, been chortling for 5 mins. Face mask, hmmm, make sure you wash your hands, these things cling. You didnt get any shots? Well, your a grownup, you can do what you want.

Sharif, The subject of natural medicine seems to a very emotive one for some people & as you worked in the industry I expect you have a lot of investment in it. I dont want to get into an arguement about it because I think I am right, & nothing you can say will sway me & I suspect you feel the same way on your stance.

But if I may....

Science takes herbal medicine, "natural" medicine and vigorously tests it through the medium of randomised control, double blind trials. & if it works to a significant degree, that cannot be explained by chance or other variables it gets to be called Medicine. Yaay!

For an example, let us take the drug Asprin. This is also called acetylsalicylic acid, & is found in nature in the Willow.

Unfortunately, you have to take quite a lot of willow for it to be as effective as a simple pill & in nature it comes bundled with a chemical that acts as an Emetic (a drug that induces vomiting)

Acetylsalicylic acid is truly a wonder drug. It works as an analgesic (reduces pain) it is antipyretic(reduces fever) & as an anti-inflammatory (reduces swelling), it also has an antiplatelet effect which is why it is used to thin blood and for the treatment of circulatory issues, like strokes, Heart attacks & thrombosis (blood clots).

Now for the downside of this "naturally" occuring wonder; It can cause Gastrointestinal ulcers, stomach bleeds & there are other links including tinnituus & Reyes Syndrome.

I now no longer have to get it from a tree, it comes in a handy pill form which is much more convenient for my medicine cabinet. It is the same chemical, do you see? Just packaged differently for ease of use.

I agree that pharmaceutical companies are not perfect. Like alternative health companies, they have an invested interest in profit. You just have to watch them & pay attention to the best available evidence.

One other thing, I am an english bloke, I rarely go to the doctor assuming that most problems will sort themselves on their own. And funnily enough I am right.

This phenomenon of getting better is known in medical parliance as regressing to the mean, i.e. I am normally well, so when I get sick, I will usually return to full health. if and when i dont, following a lot of moaning, I see a G.P.

* leans back, lights pipe, Puffs contentedly*

& who you calling old & crusty, Grannon!

Anyway, off to pop on the wireless........

Blakops wrote:

Bollocks I wrote reply & then lost it.

Ritchie, thanks for the laugh, been chortling for 5 mins. Face mask, hmmm, make sure you wash your hands, these things cling. You didnt get any shots? Well, your a grownup, you can do what you want.

Sharif, The subject of natural medicine seems to a very emotive one for some people & as you worked in the industry I expect you have a lot of investment in it. I dont want to get into an arguement about it because I think I am right, & nothing you can say will sway me & I suspect you feel the same way on your stance.

But if I may....

Science takes herbal medicine, "natural" medicine and vigorously tests it through the medium of randomised control, double blind trials. & if it works to a significant degree, that cannot be explained by chance or other variables it gets to be called Medicine. Yaay!

For an example, let us take the drug Asprin. This is also called acetylsalicylic acid, & is found in nature in the Willow.

Unfortunately, you have to take quite a lot of willow for it to be as effective as a simple pill & in nature it comes bundled with a chemical that acts as an Emetic (a drug that induces vomiting)

Acetylsalicylic acid is truly a wonder drug. It works as an analgesic (reduces pain) it is antipyretic(reduces fever) & as an anti-inflammatory (reduces swelling), it also has an antiplatelet effect which is why it is used to thin blood and for the treatment of circulatory issues, like strokes, Heart attacks & thrombosis (blood clots).

Now for the downside of this "naturally" occuring wonder; It can cause Gastrointestinal ulcers, stomach bleeds & there are other links including tinnituus & Reyes Syndrome.

I now no longer have to get it from a tree, it comes in a handy pill form which is much more convenient for my medicine cabinet. It is the same chemical, do you see? Just packaged differently for ease of use.

I agree that pharmaceutical companies are not perfect. Like alternative health companies, they have an invested interest in profit. You just have to watch them & pay attention to the best available evidence.

One other thing, I am an english bloke, I rarely go to the doctor assuming that most problems will sort themselves on their own. And funnily enough I am right.

This phenomenon of getting better is known in medical parliance as regressing to the mean, i.e. I am normally well, so when I get sick, I will usually return to full health. if and when i dont, following a lot of moaning, I see a G.P.

* leans back, lights pipe, Puffs contentedly*

You know we probably agree more than we disagree. It seems we both avoid visiting the GP as much as possible (I've been twice in about 6 years and that was because of some serious shizzle) and I would imagine that we both want to avoid putting bad stuff into our bodies. Maybe I just try harder than you or am simply more fearful over what I consider 'harmful'?

In defence of my previous post, however, as I said, the more far removed from it's natural origin, the more chance of side effects (like you mentioned for aspirin). Because, you can actually buy White Willow Bark extract. Of course it's also been through a certain amount of processing, but not as much as aspirin. The result is that it does take longer to work, but has pretty much no side effects. So then there is a choice.

Just like when I took the paracetamol. I could have taken Feverfew herbal extract, but it takes too long (for what I needed it for). So I chose to take paracetamol (as a last resort). Same for aspirin or anything else.

But again, we probably agree more than disagree and most likely have similar dietary habits. I assume you avoid crap like the sweetener aspartame and try to limit salt and sugar in your diet and try to eat as much fresh stuff as possible.

Blakops wrote:

& who you calling old & crusty, Grannon!

Anyway, off to pop on the wireless........

that would be "us" my mate

yes we are in the same age bracket brother, these young ones are precocious and need only the loving giudance of us slightly older shaolin temple brothers as we need the guidance of those older and wiser than us

oh Sharif, my belly is not now yellow young "sei lo" it is brown, tanned by the sun of thailand, and perhaps your "dei lo" brother might be ready to step forward and say a thing or two one day, please be patient with me, I am only growing, step by step, day by day but yes I will step forward, when Ive completed my training and I feel ready

I only make jokes with you, I mean no disrespect

dont think me cowardly, only careful, it'll all come out in the wash...


eventually

bear in mind I only saw this post today, Ive been a busy little beee

yes Blackops I am indeed a grown up and it is indeed my decision whether i take vaccination or not, up till now at least, thank god

one thing is certain, one day we will all be dead.

and perhaps our only regret will echo that of aldous huxley's

Quote :

“It is a bit embarrassing to have been concerned with the human problem all one's life and find at the end that one has no more to offer by way of advice than 'try to be a little kinder”

just be kind with each other please

you are closer than you are further apart, and a lot can be learned by listening, please be patient

dont practise your anger on each other

practise waiting, listening

farting

so quitely

pssssst

out it comes... no one hears it


but the smell

my god!



we're all dead, worm food- did you know dead people do farts?

its true