Training, Health and Longevity

I asked my Bagua Zhang teacher (see introductions thread) if he thought it funny that a fighting art could also make you healthy, (which all the so called 'Chinese Internal' Arts are meant to do). He replied by saying something like "Well, to fight it would be good to have a calm mind, quick reflexes, flexibility, full body mobility and co-ordination along with the ability to generate short and long power ... so what's the difference"?
Obviously health, nor any of the above factors, are necessary for fighting - I'm sure a few pints and a line are plenty enough - BUT on a practical level, what do you do to keep your skills as you age? Old people, which in theory most of us will become, can get robbed etc just like the rest.
On a more general level, you don't want to break yourself training, so are there ways to train that are both practical, sustainable AND healthy?

I'm sure I'll burble on some more about Bagua, but just a short intro for those that are curious:
It looks pretty weird, because the basic practice is to walk around and around a circle, however it makes sense when you think about gaining tactical advantage and the weak and strong angles of the body. It does not mean that you twirl round your opponent like a crazy person (which I've seen in some videos ...I guess it could work ...) but it does train stable footwork, getting to the 45 and 90 and baiting the opponent to move in the direction you want.
The basic arm posture is pretty much 'keeping the fence".
"Zhang" means palm, not fist, and most of the strikes are open handed. There are many trips and sweeps. Kicks are mostly low. There is alot of whiplash, shearing force, shaking the opponents spine and neck and 'clotheslines'.
Tactically, Bagua is known for it's ability to tell lies .....
There's a clip of my teacher on the intro thread and some more on Youtube (The 'snake throw' one is quite good).
This guy, Su Dong Chen, was his classmate in Taiwan and also has a reputation for being able to use Bagua to fight. He lives and teaches in Japan though for a while was in the US:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKGYgxaV1PE

Hi Maija. Just read through your post and the introduction into Bagua. I've been training in this for a little while now after searching for something that makes sense to me and for something that I can use. The link between health & martial is also of interest and something that is integral to Tai Chi, Bagua, Hsing I and lots of others isn't it? I'm a bit of a pick n mix chap really and I'm finding that the fundamentals of Bagua fit in so nicely with lots of other stuff - like what Richie is doing - and it's not mutually exclusive - it is not so formalised that it is wrong or right. Don't know about you but I particularly like the focus on circular movement, continual movement, multi person attacks etc. This seems to make a lot of sense. The way that power is produced from the core body, from the waist and the body rather than just muscular strength also seems sound. Watching and listening to more streetwise people on this forum has been a great help - if not a pain in the arse for my teacher who has to put up with me going through loads more questions but that's what it's all about isn't it?! And what's more - the circle walking training has improved me in so many ways in terms of balance, well being, fitness and awareness of movement too. Anyway, nice to see another Bagua person

Good Lord MrDan ...another Bagua practitioner That's great!
I totally agree that Bagua is not a box of techniques, but more a way of understanding range, angle, timing etc. I think this is so because it has as a core idea that your opponent is bigger and stronger than you ... and maybe skilled also, so you have to make the most of what you've got. i.e a brain(!) and connecting all your body weight to the target when it matters.
Personally I don't think it, in itself, is a great path to self defense, there are many faster paths, but as I am generally smaller than most of my training partners, Bagua's tactics make alot of sense to me.
Back in the day it was highly respected as a fighting art and the guys that did it were hired by all, including the emperor' family as bodyguards, so I reckon there's something in it!
Unfortunately some stuff has gotten 'lost in the translation' as it were, so I am very happy to be able to be part of forums such as this so I can learn what is worthy and what is pants.
Oh, and when I'm 80, like this guy, I want to be able to do this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2W2aORZd_Xs

hello Maija,

ive trained something like bagua for 6 years private lessons. and i know for sure that its useable on the street.
now theres a hype mma style fighting etc. but i like the old styles also
and i know for sure, and experience that they can be effective also.
you still practice eskrima?
greets!

Do you know one of the nicest parts about Bagua and the philosophy behind it that I have picked up so far? It's the idea that it is an evolving study, that you do not find 'masters' in Bagua as it is something that is always changing, there is always more to learn. Sure, like everything there are fundamentals in terms of movements and positions but it is kind of expected that you will play around with this and develop your own style too. That makes a lot more sense.

Regarding how it would fare in a street situation I guess this is a question that is done to the death in forums and in sports/MA halls the world over! To me, as long as it makes sense to me and I am gaining something from it then I am a happy man. I can't see how it will make me any less effective in a self defence/protection scenario as it is such a fluid movement and not based on 'what if's' and static scenarios. It has boosted my confidence in all areas not just in thinking about protection but at work too. I'm sure, Maija, that you are right in saying there are many faster ways to become an effective fighter but that wouldn't be as enjoyable for me and, therefore, I wouldn't want to do it! I'm assuming that everyone or most people on here actually like the training that they do otherwise why do it?

And, yeah, to be like that in my 80s would be very nice indeed. Great movement.

@ mr dan..
I wouldn't want to do it! I'm assuming that everyone or most people on here actually like the training that they do otherwise why do it?

bjj i dont like to train.. but i train it because it is important to know grappling. but i dont like rolling with men and the sweat and so on..
but because of the sweat dropping down.. i learn quick to positioning the mount! haha

Hi chulodog!
Cool that you practice Bagua too!
Eskrima, at least the system I practice has many cross over points to Bagua, which made it a little easier for me to pick up. The footwork mainly (a blade based weapon system means you need to move ).
Recently got to exchange notes with a Venezuelan "Garrote Larense" practitioner - a machete fighting system, and if I had more time I would study that. It is very interesting - totally ambidextrous.
I am also interested in Canne de Combat (not the sport, but the stuff for self defense) from France, and again, if I had another life or was independently wealthy I would spend some time with Silat for it's great use of the lower body, for takedowns and fighting from the ground - the Harimau stuff.
I, too, am not a great fan of the grappling, but it is very important obviously. I had a great time cross training with my training partner who has a background in Kick Boxing and Submission Grappling (2nd in the AIMAA World Championships a few years back) to see what entries from the stuff I do might work, and what probably would not.
It was most illuminating!!!
Anyway, blah, blah, blah ....

Quote :

I am also interested in Canne de Combat (not the sport, but the stuff for self defense) from France, and again, if I had another life or was independently wealthy I would spend some time with Silat for it's great use of the lower body, for takedowns and fighting from the ground - the Harimau stuff.

me too, if you become obsecenly independtly wealthy I will be you training partner in these arts for an exorbitant fee

HaHaHa! Sounds like a plan - When my private plane gets delivered I'll fly you right over.

sweet!