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Southpaw



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PostSubject: C-Grip Questions   Fri Aug 01, 2008 1:27 pm

Just two questions:

1. How does one practise the C Grip to know one is/can do it correctly? + How quickly does it take effect?

2. If I go in for a C grip with my right hand, and support the head with my left, am I open to blows? If so is it effective to (assuming chin is down as always) move yours arms up either side of your head to protect it from a possible blow?
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AdamM



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PostSubject: Re: C-Grip Questions   Fri Aug 01, 2008 2:05 pm

we practice the C-grip in a few ways.

first applying it slowly either from a fence or from swimming for position in the clinch. We make sure when it goes on, it goes on deep and gets a genuine tap. partner wants to be up on their toes in discomfort before they tap.

We then do it with combative pressure either from a vocal cue or from a partner striking the student. The C-grip is not fully applied, rather the finger and thumb go round the whole neck because we're driving forward pretty hard and doing that with a full C-grip would cause injury.

With braver and/or tougher training partners, after the more open grip has been applied and the training partner is being driven back (against a wall usually) the student then brings the finger and thumb in and actually applies the grip as with the slower exercise.

We do have a few of the more squeemish students struggle to get an immediate effect with the C-grip. It's because they worry about causing harm before the discomfort of the technique actually kicks in (I know, I'm working on them) As an alternative we do the exercises with a thumb into the sternal notch instead. Before they even realise it's on and their squeemishness has kicked in, the training partner has squinted their eyes, coughed strongly and tapped. I actually prefer this to the C-grip because it's impossible to get wrong.

As for being vulnerable to strikes, two things protect you. Firstly your position. Raise / shrug your shoulders which protect your jaw and at the same time tip your head forward. You know where they are, you're hand is on their throat so you don't need your head upright. Secondly , if you're REALLY driving it in, they aren't striking, they're raking at your hands/wrists to remover the grip.


Last edited by AdamM on Fri Aug 01, 2008 2:12 pm; edited 1 time in total
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AdamM



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PostSubject: Re: C-Grip Questions   Fri Aug 01, 2008 2:10 pm

...we also train the incidental strike element too.
partner raises forearm virtical. Student strikes the forearm with an open C-grip shape. similar width to the throat area.

We've found the best way to get the C-grip on effectively is to put it on open at first then instantly draw the hand back slightly so the finger and thumb fall into the slot.
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Southpaw



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PostSubject: Re: C-Grip Questions   Fri Aug 01, 2008 4:54 pm

Thanks for the reply Adam. The best I can do atm seems to be feeling where I can apply it on myself.

Is there any slow video footage on this subject? For training on one's own or with a partner?
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AdamM



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PostSubject: Re: C-Grip Questions   Fri Aug 01, 2008 5:57 pm

cant see how you can train this sort of thing on your own.
applying submissions, chokes and controls to yourself is like trying to tickle yourself or trying to make yourself pass out by holding your breath.

you need a training partner.

must have a mate who'll get stuck in surely
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Southpaw



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PostSubject: Re: C-Grip Questions   Fri Aug 01, 2008 7:24 pm

I do indeed. Just would rather some clarification through videos on seminars on correct technique and safe technique when training with a partner.
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chulodogo

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PostSubject: Re: C-Grip Questions   Sat Aug 02, 2008 8:34 am

always protect your eyes if you are dooing the c grip.
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AdamM



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PostSubject: Re: C-Grip Questions   Sat Aug 02, 2008 3:33 pm

how?
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chulodogo

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PostSubject: Re: C-Grip Questions   Sat Aug 02, 2008 5:28 pm

its difficult, if hes fast and overcome his own fear of pain from the c grip.. and turn his shoulder and eye jab.. its difficult to avoid..
its impossible to comlete avoid his eye jab.. because even you stretch your arm with the c grip to a smaller guy.. if he use his shoulder turn and jab the eye..
i know from experience.
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AR7142

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PostSubject: Re: C-Grip Questions   Sun Aug 03, 2008 2:51 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqUsgz3ubac
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thugsage
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PostSubject: Re: C-Grip Questions   Sun Aug 03, 2008 3:02 am

i have to say [chulodogo], the bit about the eyes...spot on mate.
when i was about 24, i sort of new a guy really superficially. we never really got on each other's bad
sides--i thought. he was a bit of a bully by nature. it was the first time i started learning about a personality
that is nice to people so that in future they have time to gain an upper hand. this guy got me in a c-grip,
i didn't have a name for it then. i waited for several seconds, thinking this didn't make sense, that it must
be some ego trip and he'll let go. i was younger then. in my mind, all that i kept thinking was, just a couple more
seconds and i'm going to jab my thumb in the back of this fucking ass-hole's eye. he let go before that. and
i never spoke with him again. i was young, what i learned...don't joke with people you don't really know well,
or if you do be prepared to turn on them as quickly as they may turn on you.
so yes, i agree with you...protect the eyes. i didn't know much back then and i was more than willing to send my
thumb to the back of that fucker's head.

as far as practice application. my practices included squeamish folks that took forever to really apply the technique
on me. but i think what i noticed as a nice aid was thinking my thumb--on one side, and one or more of my other
fingers--starting with middle, then maybe index, etc...were simultaniously joining in a c-shaped grip while attempting
not only to go up towards the top of the person's head, but also back-ish. almost like i was aiming up-and-back at
a 45 degree angle--with my cupped hand right behind the person's head for a nice vice-like pressure. the feeling was that
the person really belonged to me. i think if you're really intense (in the real thing), it is possible they wont really be
giving your eyes much consideration...but tuck your head in (as Richie says) for good measure. maybe add a little
head butt in, since you're in the neighborhood--so to speak.

that's how i practiced it...with the restraint needed when working with friends/students--tap outs, etc. i think if you move
(like on Richie's beta Cool it takes their attention off of your eyes and onto not falling and not passing out. thinking of how
you would feel if you were constantly worrying about backing up and tripping over your feet. forcing them in a mild
circular direction can do that for you. i hope that made sense.
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chulodogo

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PostSubject: Re: C-Grip Questions   Sun Aug 03, 2008 8:28 am

nice reply!,

personally i experienced. that theres a difference between people.. i also worked as a doorman, and last year with drug addicted heavy criminals..

in the first catogory the c grip makes a lot impression.. with many people.. a collega doorman, just takes a person off his feet against the wall.. no c grip, just take him around his neck.. pure power no technique..
and that was enough to impress most clients.

with the drug addicted criminals its a total different ballgame.
some of them have no respect at all.
have seen a lot. killed people etc.
a c grip on the alpha man drug criminal.. i dont know.

i had to work with the man in the woods.. with 8 of them..
ive learnd a lot about group psychology, and follow the leader mentality haha

But i like to say that its difficult to fight with a man with no respect at all, on drugs and agressive..
you only can apply techniques what knock him out, or disable him to fight.

So my training is basicly on that only..

besides.. in the violent years i lived, i get more and more a hate to violence.. i dont work there anymore.. i cannot take it any more all the angry talk violence gangster talking..

now i live an easy life. and the only thing i do with violence is this forum and i teach a few doorman.
But it is allmost impossible to train very very realistic..
Fight is allways different than training.
but to train the c grip can be usefull
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Richard Grannon
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PostSubject: Re: C-Grip Questions   Sun Aug 03, 2008 10:08 am

good question, good replies, good thread... good good

I will chop the beta-8 DVD sequence where I show an absolute beginner how to apply the c-grip- because I am a kindly soul Very Happy

in answer to the original question, mate you cant practise this on your own, you need a parter
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Richard Grannon
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PostSubject: Re: C-Grip Questions   Sun Aug 03, 2008 8:06 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkYGWj4NNXs


unedited footage from DVD 2 www.beta-8.com syllabus
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Southpaw



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PostSubject: Re: C-Grip Questions   Sun Aug 03, 2008 9:11 pm

Thanks for that Richie. Really good stuff.
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KickTheirButts



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PostSubject: Re: C-Grip Questions   Tue Aug 05, 2008 12:17 pm

I was thinking about the c-grip.. the way you guys do it is squeezing the adams apple right?

I guess I have used similar things at work.. just using surprise, aggression and drive to slam people into things like the door or wall when they have come at me and then dragged them out. But I haven't done any squeezing of the adams apple.

Because I have been lead to believe by several people that it can easily be crushed which will result in death.. similar to using a webhand strike to the throat.

Dan Webre who is not well known says that if you lightly squeeze your adams apple, when your voice gets squeeky.. and when you cough, then past that point is when it is crushed..

I usually apply this with a wrap on one of their arms, like I mean wrap around their arm so that it is pinned under my arm pit, then I have more control and I can move them around better and one arm is partially disabled.

I am curious about this?
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Richard Grannon
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PostSubject: Re: C-Grip Questions   Tue Aug 05, 2008 12:59 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlu2_1ECNBs

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Richard Grannon
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PostSubject: Re: C-Grip Questions   Tue Aug 05, 2008 1:09 pm

by the way is your name Ben?

http://www.outcoldfightclub.org/fight-talk/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=374

Quote :
And I can actually tell stories of confrontations.. without being told that I am making up stuff and banned..

If I was going to make up a story, i'd make it really cool.. like..

"I was walking down the street after not sleeping for 72 hours.. and all of a sudden a group of WWE wrestlers jumped out.. The Big Show, Triple H, Batista, The Undertaker, Kane and Brock Lesnar..

They surrounded me, as I thought "hmmm.. this will be easy.. these guys are pussies".. and as they attacked I turned into a deadly vortex of mayhem and torn them all apart.. as I walked off slowly.. smiling.. I just knew I could not wait to go and post it on the forums to impress everybody!"

hahahah, i'm tempted to go and post it on "a certain forum that banned me"...

-Ben
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KickTheirButts



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PostSubject: Re: C-Grip Questions   Tue Aug 05, 2008 3:46 pm

haha.. yes you guessed it.

I do still read the forum because though we had our disagreements, I find the information good and also like your products and teachings.

And before you say it, on that same thread I did say about you 'though from what i've seen he doesn't seem capable physically'. I am of different opinion now, I realized that was because at that time the dvd's I had I didn't really see you perfom a huge amount of things that hard. But as I said I have seen other dvd's and have a different opinion.

I actually thought you realize back then when I first posted it and were just having a joke.. but guess not.

As for crushing the throat, before I ask more on that I will read the thread about that video you posted to see if its covered.
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Richard Grannon
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PostSubject: Re: C-Grip Questions   Tue Aug 05, 2008 4:54 pm

if you've had a change of opinion then go and edit your post please

you've been kicked off this forum twice and coming back a third time shows incredible cheek and sneakiness, i have to begrudgingly respect that

you cant be having digs at me on one forum (actually you made some derogatory comments on senshido as far as i can recall regarding my "physical abilities" as well- if your going to stay on here Id like you to change those posts too and be consistent)

re. my physical abilities: Im no great shakes, I know my boxing, kick and thai and my ground game basics... but you wont see me in the UFC any time soon pirat

despite what Chris says on his forum he cant deny he asked me to fight for his club after and I was helping him to instruct his two fighters Kev and Gaz... yet now he says I have no ability whatsoever- what does that say to you?

would you ask someone to fight for and instruct at your club if you thought they were shit?
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KickTheirButts



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PostSubject: Re: C-Grip Questions   Wed Aug 06, 2008 4:41 am

Quote :
if you've had a change of opinion then go and edit your post please

you've been kicked off this forum twice and coming back a third time shows incredible cheek and sneakiness, i have to begrudgingly respect that

you cant be having digs at me on one forum (actually you made some derogatory comments on senshido as far as i can recall regarding my "physical abilities" as well- if your going to stay on here Id like you to change those posts too and be consistent)

re. my physical abilities: Im no great shakes, I know my boxing, kick and thai and my ground game basics... but you wont see me in the UFC any time soon pirat

despite what Chris says on his forum he cant deny he asked me to fight for his club after and I was helping him to instruct his two fighters Kev and Gaz... yet now he says I have no ability whatsoever- what does that say to you?

would you ask someone to fight for and instruct at your club if you thought they were shit?

Ok I have edited the posts.

I admit that back then I was at a certain stage that I don't know if its something most people go through. A phase of having to talk about every little thing that has happened like bragging in a way. They were not made up, but alot of it wasn't needed unless its actually relevant to the conversation, as with the c-grip thing I posted about. I have realized since then, and especially seeing this in other people and really realizing.. I said to myself 'self.. stop being a dumbass'.

I did have a time where I seemed to be attracting situations, around the same time.. but that has evened out aswell and I am more calm and getting used to things. But on the other hand, my job is where I get 99% of this experience so it is natural that I will talk about it because it is a part of my life, and will share experiences at times and ask questions... but I will try not to do it in a way "oh look I did this.. look at me look at me"..

hahah, I feel like a dickhead Embarassed

As with Chris I agree that he wouldn't ask you to teach or fight for his club if he didn't think you were good. I don't really talk to Chris much anymore, what you said about him says that maybe you had a difference of opinion and it developed from there.. I like both of your teachings.. but I no longer want to get into the politics.

Anyway I do thank you for your teachings and for letting me stay on the forum.. I ask one thing, if I say things you don't like.. could you tell me, because I like to say what i'm thinking.

And I am gonna make a new username as kicktheirbutts sounds a bit retarded, as it was ment to be a joke Laughing

-Ben


Last edited by KickTheirButts on Wed Aug 06, 2008 4:51 am; edited 1 time in total
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Benjamin

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PostSubject: Re: C-Grip Questions   Wed Aug 06, 2008 4:49 am

Here I am anew..

-Ben
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Richard Grannon
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PostSubject: Re: C-Grip Questions   Wed Aug 06, 2008 9:04 am

Quote :
Dan Webre who is not well known says that if you lightly squeeze your adams apple, when your voice gets squeeky.. and when you cough, then past that point is when it is crushed..

well he is wrong on this one Im afraid Ben

did you click the video link above about the human larynx's resilience?

i've got a reasonably strong grip and i have ripped into people with the full intention of doing as much damage as possible and gotten little more than a silly "choke face" and a wheeze out of the guy... certainly nothing "crushed" there
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RichardB



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PostSubject: Re: C-Grip Questions   Wed Aug 06, 2008 12:30 pm

The larynx seems like a severly overhyped target. I used to believe a hard strike would flatten it, but when i think about it, why don't more people get killed that way. Theoretically you could walk into a group of people and start hammering them in the larynx and just annihilate them like that. As if you had a knife. Think about that Chinese guy who knifed the Chinese police station a few weeks ago. It'd be something like that, wouldn't it? If the larynx really was that lethal a target, why do the otherwise very well-orientated killers in the prison system bother using shanks when just as good a result could be obtained by slamming people in the throat? You'd believe they would have caught on by now.

According to the post with the interview of the inmate that was posted here recently, they did use shots to the throat, but they only really served to stun people by making them retch and cough. The myth of lethal larynx strikes probably began with the karate killshots people used to talk about. And judging by the power some of those guys can generate (because the entire style is obsessive-compulsively based on power generation) I actually think it may have been possible. Except of course that karate today has lost pretty much it's connection to realism and has really become a bunch of prancing ballerinas, mostly at least. Suffice it to say that it will take more than the average "hard shot" to the larynx to actually crush it to the point that it becomes a reliable killshot.
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Benjamin

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PostSubject: Re: C-Grip Questions   Thu Aug 07, 2008 4:08 am

Quote :
well he is wrong on this one Im afraid Ben

did you click the video link above about the human larynx's resilience?

i've got a reasonably strong grip and i have ripped into people with the full intention of doing as much damage as possible and gotten little more than a silly "choke face" and a wheeze out of the guy... certainly nothing "crushed" there

Hey Richie,
yeah I watched it the other day. It now seems rediculous that anybody could think its as easy to crush as a empty beer can.. but I guess its one of those lies that goes around the martial arts world.. such as chi, dim mak etc..

Actually from thinking about it more.. i've seen several fights where the guys grab each other around the throat and nobody dead Laughing

Also a few times back at school in stupid schoolyard fights.. a few times we both had each other around the throat and squeezing.. and if it was as easy as it is said.. I wouldn't be able to type this (unless they have computers in the afterlife).

I also heard that if you kick somebody in the nuts hard enough then their balls will come out their mouth.. is that true?? (hahha joking, I seen it on some dodgy comedy kung fu movie)

-Ben
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