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pikeking

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PostSubject: strange post   Sun Apr 13, 2008 11:19 pm

this may be a strange post, i'm not even sure why i'm typing it here

over the past months i have becoming more and more afraid that i am not able to protect myself and those i care about, the more i learn about RBSD and other fighting systems surely i should feel more confident, when infact it is the opposite

i can be walking through town in broad daylight and i find myself sizing everyone up and if theres a group of lads minding inthier own buisness just being a group of lads, like you see every day, i am practically on the verge of a preemptive strike

now with all the knife crime you hear about i get even more worried and this weekend a man has been found murdered nearby where i live, i live in a small city where this sort of thing doesnt happen, i'm freaking out.

am i the only person here that is getting more and more paranoid and afraid or am i just a psycho?
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Sergei

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PostSubject: Re: strange post   Mon Apr 14, 2008 2:32 am

~


Last edited by Sergei on Tue Apr 22, 2008 9:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Richard Grannon
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PostSubject: Re: strange post   Mon Apr 14, 2008 12:09 pm

Quote :
am i the only person here that is getting more and more paranoid and afraid or am i just a psycho?


hiya mate, no i think this is normal. I had the same thing from studying RBSD/ Combatives... I really only got into it about two years after I had stopped being on the doors and getting into regular fights and I found the more I studied and the deeper I got intot he subject the more nervous and less confident I felt.

As Sergei has pointed out you may well want to look at what is going on at your behavioural level and your internal dialogue... now look at your RBSD training... where are you doing it? who with? what do actually spend time focussing on in your sessions? Is there an IMPLIED feeling of incompetence? are you being hypnotised into feeling the world is a threateninig place and that its a struggle to deal with? (just rhetorical questions for you to ponder )

This can be the kind of thing that happens in group therapy/ AA groups... the unspoken, implied assumption that are reflected in the language patterns are much more powerful than any specific explicit commands... beliefs like "you ARE an alcoholic" or "once an alcoholic always an alcoholic" etc

In some RBSD/combatives circles I start to get the impression by listening to their discourse that everyone who might want to have a disagreement with you WILL want to beat you up and they WILL be a STR33TFIGHTER and that means they will be FEROCIOUS and use frighteninig prison biting tactics that you have never heard of... etc

that is one reason studying this subject can make you more scared where it should be making you more confident.

Another is that intellectualising and frontal lobing the subject invites you to think in terms of consequence and that imagining of what MIGHT happen can drive you crazy. I personally found after 6 months of study of "how to do violence" I was less confident than I had been 3 years previous to the study when I KNEW far less but was doing violence much more regularly!
Now thats not to say I dont think what Ive learned is useful and that I dont think Im more skilled now than I was back then... but knowing more and being more skilled does NOT necessarily make you feel more confident.

I started to feel like my ultimate nightmare: "the RBSD nerd". Razz

From Macolm Gladwell's book "Blink", chapter four which is about "creating structure for spontaneity"

"There are I think two important lessons here. The first is that truly succesful decision making relies on a balance between deliberate and instinctive thinking... The second lesson is that in good decision making, frugality matters... overloading the decision makers with information, makes (performing a skilled task) harder, not easier. To be a succesful decision maker, we have to edit."

Gladwell also references in this section a former Marine called Paul Van Riper who was called out of retirement by the Pentagon in 2000 to play the role of a rogue anti american Commander in a quarter of a billion dollar war game called Millenium Challenge.

"Van Riper didnt believe you could lift the fog of war.... from his own experiences in Vietnam... Van Riper became convinced that war was inherently unpredictable, messy and non linear... It wasnt that Van Riper hated rational analysis. Its that he thought it was inappropriate in the midst of battle, where the uncertainties of war and the pressures of time made it impossible to compare options carefully and calmly... nurses and firefighters would size up a situation immediately and act, drawing on experience and intuition and a rough kind of mental simulation. To Van Riper that seemed to describe much more accurately how people make decisions on the battle field."

Van Riper's Rogue Red Team played the "War by the book" Blue Team who obeyed every established principle of military strategy... and gave them a kicking!

"Had Millenium Challenge been a real war instead of just an exercise, twenty thousand American servicemen and women would have been killed before there own army had even fired a shot."

You cant do violence by numbers, you have to develop an intuitive ability to improvise given the circumstances and then trust it, thats where real confidence comes from.

There is so much good material in this book relevant to self protection Im struggling to edit myself ... here is my last point:

Jam Idiocy

In chapter 5 Gladwell describes an experiment performed by Psychologist Jonathan Schooler, who came up with the term Verbal Overshadowing
(... if I ask you to remember someones face, you can do it effectively, but if I ask you to describe that face in words your visual memory actually becomes impaired by that process! thats verbal overshadowing)
In the experiment a group of food experts were asked to rank the quality of 24 different jams. Schooler took a group of college students and asked them to rank the jams too. How close was the students ranking to the experts?
"Pretty close" says Gladwell "What this says, in other words, is that our jam reactions are quite good: even those of us who arent jam experts know good jam when we taste it."

BUT
What happened in the experiment when students were given a questionnaire and asked to explain their choices of jam? Total disaster... there was little correlation at all with the experts choice of jam.

"This is reminiscent of Schoolers experiments I described in the Van Riper story (about verbal overshadowing) in which introspection destroyed peoples ability to solve insight problems. By making people think about jam...Schooler turned them into jam idiots."

In your training, beware "Jam Idiocy" Very Happy
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RichardB



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PostSubject: Re: strange post   Mon Apr 14, 2008 12:16 pm

I have experienced the same thing. A few years ago I used to do this and almost turned myself into some kind of paranoid neurotic freak. "what will I do if this guy does that?" Note the defensive stance. He will do that, and then I'll have to respond to that. Bad way to go about it. The internal dialogue that makes me feel most relaxed about violence is based on the fact that once it starts, you'll just act the best way you know how. No time to think or plan. I've even found pre-planning stuff is mostly useless. I think to myself moments before that I'll do this or that. But to no avail, my body simply follows the simplest and most ingrained thing it knows regardless. Simply put, and pretty much verbatim: "Whatever's gonna happen is gonna happen, and then I'll do what I'll do." Try it on and see if it works.

Another thing that was mentioned in some other thread in here was about not only focusing on violence. That it's important to look on the bright side of things as well. The question in my mind is in balancing the security perspective with the positive perspective. That is, not becoming so focused on people's bad sides that you can't deal with them without paranoia. And on the other hand not trusting people's good nature so much that you leave yourself wide open to any bad ones. After that, I think it boils down to awareness and the fence. I.e., not generally letting people stay in your blind spots, setting up functional social barriers that people will normally respect. So that you will immediately see a red flag when someone steps all over them. Trust your awareness for picking up real trouble before it gets up tp speed. Beyond that, your conscious mind is too slow and cumbersome to deal with "lightning strike" attacks that come out of nowhere. No amount of worrying will help you there. For that you've got to train and trust your reflexes.
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VictorS

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PostSubject: Re: strange post   Mon Apr 14, 2008 1:33 pm

A good book to read is called "The Gift of Fear" by Gavin DeBecker (sp?)

Basically, the author states we all have an intuitive 'feeling' when danger is about to happen. Unfortunately, too many people either ingore it or through too much thinking they drown it out.


Last edited by VictorS on Tue Apr 15, 2008 1:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
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pikeking

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PostSubject: Re: strange post   Mon Apr 14, 2008 10:01 pm

thanks for the replies guys

i really must look more into the mental side of things rather than trying to perfect my headbutt technique
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Richard Grannon
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PostSubject: Re: strange post   Tue Apr 15, 2008 5:58 pm

VictorS wrote:
A good book to read is called "The Gift of Fear" by Gavin DeBecker (sp?)

Basically, the author states we all have an intuitive 'feeling' when danger is about to happen. Unfortunately, too many people either ingore it or through too much thinking they drown it out.

is that written by an LA bodyguard? I think Gladwell references it in the last chapter when talking about the Reagan assasination attempt... the last chapter of Blink is a must read for people studying Self Protection

cant recommend "Blink" enough guys, get it.
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paulb

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PostSubject: Re: strange post   Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:09 pm

Blink was Good, better than Tipping point, which seemed interesting until I tried to read it. If you want a true life account of a man facing up to and triumphing over his fears you will do not better than "Angry White Pyjamas" IMVHO a modern literary classic with a smattering of hilarity, I couldn't put it down!
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VictorS

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PostSubject: Re: strange post   Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:20 pm

Richard Grannon wrote:
VictorS wrote:
A good book to read is called "The Gift of Fear" by Gavin DeBecker (sp?)

Basically, the author states we all have an intuitive 'feeling' when danger is about to happen. Unfortunately, too many people either ingore it or through too much thinking they drown it out.

is that written by an LA bodyguard? I think Gladwell references it in the last chapter when talking about the Reagan assasination attempt... the last chapter of Blink is a must read for people studying Self Protection

cant recommend "Blink" enough guys, get it.

I know his company trains bodyguards. Here's his bio...

https://www.gavindebecker.com/bios-gavin_de_becker.cfm
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RichardB



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PostSubject: Re: strange post   Wed Apr 16, 2008 11:52 am

"The gift of fear" was pretty interesting. Read it a few years ago. Maybe I'll have another go. DeBecker makes a pretty strong case for listening to your gut feeling. When it comes to good old inter-personal matters (as opposed to the fineries of quantum physics or some such thing) the gut feeling is usually right. Because it is basing it's call on several milliion years of evolution and all that I suppose. Placed an order for blink yesterday by the way.
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Richard Grannon
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PostSubject: Re: strange post   Wed Apr 16, 2008 2:13 pm

Your unconscious is processing millions of peices of information per second whereas your conscious processes about 7

so the answer would be: just listen to your unconscious!

But the question then becomes: How?

Gladwell also talks about getting "Behind the closed door" of your unconscious in the book.

I think if you spend enough time in confrontational situations you become an "expert" through exposure to the signs... can you develop these instuitive skills without exposure I wonder?
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RCS



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PostSubject: Re: strange post   Wed Apr 16, 2008 10:15 pm

I found the Gift of Fear to be kind of boring for a book that is highly recommended by so many self protection instructors/websites Sleep . Sure, there were a few interesting anecdotes about people that faced violent situations, but all you really need to know about the book has been said in this thread, or can be found by reading a two paragraph review submitted by someone on amazon.com.
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Sergei

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PostSubject: Re: strange post   Thu May 01, 2008 12:58 am

RCS wrote:
I found the Gift of Fear to be kind of boring for a book that is highly recommended by so many self protection instructors/websites Sleep . Sure, there were a few interesting anecdotes about people that faced violent situations, but all you really need to know about the book has been said in this thread, or can be found by reading a two paragraph review submitted by someone on amazon.com.

Agreed RCS. I read it and it's a load of B.S. - I would not recommend this book to anyone.
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Richard Grannon
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PostSubject: Re: strange post   Thu May 01, 2008 1:17 pm

thanks for saving me 10 quid!
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asfi



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PostSubject: Re: strange post   Thu May 01, 2008 9:40 pm

Richard Grannon wrote:
Your unconscious is processing millions of peices of information per second whereas your conscious processes about 7

so the answer would be: just listen to your unconscious!

But the question then becomes: How?

Sorry, I just can't resist this...

the answer:

Knock yourself out! lol!

Haha..

Apologies, mates.

Anyway, Pike, your feeling of fear, it's natural.

IMHO, fear creates a sense of heightened awareness for you. I may be wrong, but doesn't this ensure a higher chance of survival and self-preservation. It's still better than being cocky and arrogant of one's "skills", but don't let that fear undermine your confidence in your abilities. If you're confident of what you're able to do, then you're going to be able to do it well. Bruce Lee said, "Remember, success is a journey, not destination. Have faith in your ability."

As for me, I used to have that feeling too, but the more I trained, and got involved in scraps, the more faith I get in what I'm able to do.

There's nothing like the affirmation of getting in a fight, and using what you trained for and come out on top. Mind you, I'm not condoning you to get INTO fights. This is in a scenario where I was already IN a fight. Usually unknowingly. I don't know mates, the chums here in Singapore really have it in for bouncers. Just can't slap them silly anymore.

Someone once said, "Courage is not the absence of fear. It is the ability to overcome it."

So the fear is still there, but at least, I know that "hey, I trained for this shit. When the time comes I'm gonna give my best and come out on top."

Have a drink.
Cheers.
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Tom1985



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PostSubject: Re: strange post   Tue Jul 22, 2008 11:01 am

Unless you're particularly unlucky, get yourself into trouble or are a door man, you could live your whole life and not get into a fight. Sometimes the pressure to be even slightly switched on when you leave the house could be overall damaging on the long term.

If you do get into a fight that you absolutely can't avoid and react the wrong way cause you didn't train or prepare mentally for it, there's nothing to be ashamed of. It's like expecting to just live your ordinary life, smoking, drinking, only occasionally going to the gym and then winning the olympics. Nobody will be disappointed.

Alot of people who get into RBSD are overly paranoid cause maybe they got into a fight or one of their friends did. But the truth is that we live in a civilized society, and your chances of getting into a second fight in your life are very slim (unless like most people you seek it out and try to make it happen as some form of twisted revenge on the wrong person). It's probably the smallest problem average people should be worried about in today's society.

You have more chances of being hit by a car while crossing the street but I've never seen a forum on "car avoidance".

If you truly develop (to the degree where you're not just kidding yourself) that intense aggression that you can just call upon to attack somebody, you'll never be the same person again. You're literally gonna become partially insane and there's nothing glamorous about it.
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