Setups, Sucker punches etc.. had a new one last night..

Hey guys,
Something that we haven't really discussed yet, is set-ups.. basically someone setting you up to attack you or have a higher chance to hurt you, because they know they can't do it fairly.

The reason I am thinking about this now because I had this pulled on me last night at work.

Basically there is this guy who has in the past assaulted me twice and he was in the venue. When he come in I told him to behave himself. He was fine for ages, but then after a few more drinks, started being a dickhead. I walked past and he started talking shit and having a go to me.. I really wasn't in the mood, and I just pointed at the door and said quite aggressively "get the fuck out" (I know probably not the best way to handle it).. him and his wife made this big show of her holding him back, then the deception come in. (Which I realized after the situation) I was there telling him to leave and his wife come and stood in front of me and was saying "stop it, your the trouble maker".. and I just put my hands up passively and he come over saying "don't you fucking touch my girlfriend blah blah".. and he snuck around to the side and swung at me, trying to sucker punch me, I seen it though, and it just glanced off the top of my head.

I clinched him immediately (been drilling this in training) and I don't even know what I did after that but he fell over, and some of his friends I assume took him out the door, and some other people stood in front of me, because truthfully, I seen red and wanted to kill him. Because this is the third time.

I've been too easy on him, and now will be banning him, theres a new thing that if someone is 'naughty' enough, then we can goto the cops and ban them from every venue in town because they are obviously trouble. I said this to my boss and he agreed, so that stops him in the future.

Anyway, this thing kind of got me off guard a bit, I didn't want to grab his wife and throw her away because other people would see that and id look more like the bad guy. Just him yelling "don't touch my wife" was obviously a way to make me look like the bad guy so he could set me up.

My downfall in this situation is that I let my emotions get the best of me, I can most of the time stay quite calm and talk people down etc and am getting quite good at it, but when somebody physically attacks me I just go into survival mode.

Anyway my reason for posting this is to ask if there is any other ways I could have handeled this, I know I made a few mistakes?

And also to encourage you guys to share what setups you have seen, had used against you, or even used yourself.

Another one that someone told me about. A guy come up to him being all friendly, "hey mate want a drink etc" with his arm around him, and then when he lowered his guard he headbutted him out of nowhere. Now thats a hard one, because they are being friendly and theres no obvious aggression.

The other one I can think of, another guy who I work with. We kicked out a guy one week. The next week he was on the door and this guy come back with his brother, his brother was talking to my mate to distract him while the first guy snuck around and sucker punched him.. gotta watch out for that too.. unfortunatly I was up the back of the venue at the time so couldn't help out.

I'm interested to hear any input..

-Ben

Ben I may of asked you this in the past, if so, forgive me: how old are you and how long have you beed doing doorwork for mate?

If I was your head doorman this would be by immdeiate response to your story:

Why did you let him in the club if has assualted you twice?!

Where was the other doormen when you first engaged with him? why did you go in alone?

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clinched him immediately (been drilling this in training) and I don't even know what I did after that but he fell over, and some of his friends I assume took him out the door, and some other people stood in front of me, because truthfully, I seen red and wanted to kill him. Because this is the third time.

when dealing with someone who has been physical with you before on the door the only thing you should be setting up for is a preemptive strike to knock the silly fucker out and drag him out by the ankles- not restraining or clinching, knocking the fuck out of him and preferably marking him up properly

he "fell over" in a clinch but you dont know how? you dont know how he left but assume "his friends" led him out??!!

why werent you raggin him out by the face? where were you when his friends were taking him out?

and " some other people stood in front of you"- what people??? punters in the bar???!!! why are you letting people stop you from doing your job?!

This is just awful doorwork Ben, really really dreadful mate. Its not the worst Ive heard of but its very very unprofessional and VERY very weak.

The guy has now hit you three times and got away with it- you are a mug in his eyes.

Is this normal prodecure in Australia to let punters push doormen around? What kind of club are you working on Ben? Do you other good doormen backing you up? Does your firm back you up?

If the policy in Austrlia is some kind of deomcracy between the doorstaff and the punters were you kind of sort it out between you all, then jack the job in, it will get you hurt.
If you have a psychological block that prevents you from doing your job properly then again, jack the job in it will get you hurt.

Why do you do the door Ben? WHat kind of club are you working on? whats the door policy? How many lads are with you? do you have radios? What did the manager say after this dreadful effort?


Understand Ben, Im not trying to be hurtful to you, but this is Doorwork mate, fuck it up and you could end up in hospital or dead and you are going about it all the wrong way.
You seem like a nice intelligent guy I'd hate to see you get hurt, maybe you just arent cut out for this kind of thing- Have you considered maybe a career change?

Hi Richie,

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Ben I may of asked you this in the past, if so, forgive me: how old are you and how long have you beed doing doorwork for mate?

Im 24, been doing it about a year. Done other kinds of security before that, but only boring stuff like shopping centre/golf clubs etc..

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If I was your head doorman this would be by immdeiate response to your story:

Why did you let him in the club if has assualted you twice?!

Where was the other doormen when you first engaged with him? why did you go in alone?

Well I will go a bit more into things. I have been seriously considering quitting that venue because of several problems that are popping up. Especially in the last month or so.

If it was up to me, there would be no way he would of been let in the club again. But it was a private party and my manager let him in (problem 1) and in general the manager has been getting quite drunk at work (he is the manager and owner) so it is causing problems.

It has pretty much been good there but problems are developing lately.

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when dealing with someone who has been physical with you before on the door the only thing you should be setting up for is a preemptive strike to knock the silly fucker out and drag him out by the ankles- not restraining or clinching, knocking the fuck out of him and preferably marking him up properly

he "fell over" in a clinch but you dont know how? you dont know how he left but assume "his friends" led him out??!!

why werent you raggin him out by the face? where were you when his friends were taking him out?

My intent was to strike from the clinch, but I have a blank spot for a split second where I don't know what I did. I get why your confused when I read it again, I did see some people take him out, I just ment that I was assuming it was some of his friends.

And the other thing to let me know it was a setup, the people stood in front of me on purpose obviously to hinder me and one of his friends grabbed me (he got kicked out for this)..

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The guy has now hit you three times and got away with it- you are a mug in his eyes.

Well the last 2 times I dealt with it effectively, but didn't get to teach him a lesson as something has always hindered it, thats why I feel he needed to try to sucker punch me like this.

I really don't know where the other doormen were, there was another 4 guys, I can't believe they didn't see it honestly, as it was in the middle of the club.

If I had the chance I would of got backup, this is the first time I haven't actually had the chance to. Because it just went from him talking shit and pretty quickly escalated from my trying to talk to his wife and then him coming up aggressively, so all I could do was deal with the situation at hand.

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Is this normal prodecure in Australia to let punters push doormen around? What kind of club are you working on Ben? Do you other good doormen backing you up? Does your firm back you up?

I think this is the problem here. The people who have assaulted me at work I have banned, but the manager keeps letting them back in. I threatened to leave last weekend when it happened again and he kicked the person out and strangely gave me a pay rise at the end of that night and he rang the next day apologizing.

But look what happens this weekend, he lets this dude back in.

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If you have a psychological block that prevents you from doing your job properly then again, jack the job in it will get you hurt.

What kind of psychological block do you mean? I would actually like to explore it.

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Why do you do the door Ben? WHat kind of club are you working on? whats the door policy? How many lads are with you? do you have radios? What did the manager say after this dreadful effort?

I originally started to get some experience, get over fear and learn to deal with aggression, as well as I want to teach martial arts and wanted some experience. And i've found i've learnt so much and enjoy the job. Its a kind of small club, have about max 400 people in it. Usually we have 5 security and no radios. The manager didn't give a fuck, he was fucking drunk.

Wow, maybe i've got so used to this shit, but typing this now makes me realize I need to get out of that venue. I have found doorwork to be mostly a positive learning experience and i've grown alot from it. But this place has too many problems. Basically the security team is good, we started to clean up the troublemakers, but the manager is letting them back in..

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Understand Ben, Im not trying to be hurtful to you, but this is Doorwork mate, fuck it up and you could end up in hospital or dead and you are going about it all the wrong way.
You seem like a nice intelligent guy I'd hate to see you get hurt, maybe you just arent cut out for this kind of thing- Have you considered maybe a career change?

I understand that, i'm glad that your telling me straight and not holding your opinion back.

Been thinking of doing another job for a while, but I still feel theres alot I can learn from this career.

-Ben

mate
seriously if I was on that door with you I would of first done the lad in- enough to let him know- then gone for the manager- that is fucking bullshit letting a guy in who has actually HIT you let alone just been lippy with you back in- absolute nonsense.

jack it in, to be totally honest Ive had 5 emails in the last week of people asking me how to get into doorwork, my answer is always: just dont

just dont, its a fucking mugs game- its just not worth it, everyone treats you like shit- nobody likes a doorman- and what you are paid is not commensurate with the risk and the negative impact it has on your life and psychological health

Well done for taking my undiplomatic words head on Ben, kudos to you.

Your too good for that club, and probably too intelligent for that game. Just sack it off.

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mate
seriously if I was on that door with you I would of first done the lad in- enough to let him know- then gone for the manager- that is fucking bullshit letting a guy in who has actually HIT you let alone just been lippy with you back in- absolute nonsense.

Yes its happened too many fucking times. If I had other work i'd have left, and I like the money.

But yeah, my manager letting people back in is fucked. The night before he asked me about another guy and I said he was banned and he goes "ok I will tell him he can't come in".. then the next night the boss wasn't there at the start and I was told "its ok, the boss said he was allowed in".. Oh well.. don't really need to discuss it anymore, I know what I have to do.

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jack it in, to be totally honest Ive had 5 emails in the last week of people asking me how to get into doorwork, my answer is always: just dont

I have also told several people that.. the most common question I get is "how do I get into this job, I want to do it".. and out of the hundreds who have probably asked ZERO have actually done it.

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just dont, its a fucking mugs game- its just not worth it, everyone treats you like shit- nobody likes a doorman- and what you are paid is not commensurate with the risk and the negative impact it has on your life and psychological health

Yeah true its changed my outlook alot, some good learnings, but also in a bad way. And I am starting to believe that alot of people who talk to me and be nice just do to get something, because of my job. And that is not a belief I want to carry in the world.

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Well done for taking my undiplomatic words head on Ben, kudos to you.

Your too good for that club, and probably too intelligent for that game. Just sack it off.

My question to myself is "what to do now".. I wonder if theres a opening for a giggolo in town

I think sales is the most likely, I did it for a while and liked it, its good to develop communication, people are nicer. I've actually been commenting lately to my friend to salespeople we have come across and how they could do it better, and my friend said "I think you should get back into sales"..

So other than teaching martial arts to one or two people in my spare time I think thats the way to go.

-Ben

just dont, its a fucking mugs game- its just not worth it, everyone treats you like shit- nobody likes a doorman- and what you are paid is not commensurate with the risk and the negative impact it has on your life and psychological health

yeah, i did some nice door work, quiet nice nights with fabulous girls.. and phone numbers
but indeed richie, its not worth it in the end..
i cant go to the city utrecht anymore.. it will get me killed i think.

only the nice part of beeing doorman, is.. the girls.. and the fighting.. sounds stupid i know.. but after my army time, i liked sometimes the feeling alive feeling.

But afterwards i totally agree with richie not to work at the doors. it dont make you a happy person, you always have to be carefull, also to giving your phone number to girls , better let them give her number to you. sometimes guys you have problems with use the girls to know where you live..

the nice part of my job in the city i worked in was if there s a little bit big problem all the doorman help eachother from different clubs.

all the doorman i know from that time, now work with problem youth, like me also, or with drug addicts.
its also little bit nice job.

greets