MMA Psychology?

I think most people who go "looking for fights" and do all this psuedo-alpha chest thumping have never really experienced life and death violence. I think violence is scarey as fuck, it is brutal and I believe it changes people. This MMA shit trend lately I think feeds people totally distorted ideas of man-hood and real life violence. Some people I talk to lately, go on with this attitude where they think that just because they roll around in a dojo with other guys and lift weights, it means that they would totally survive any violent situation. I think it is a pretty dangerous thing to think this way.

Any comments on this anyone?

Or is this post just a waste of time? haha

Lonewolf333,

I beleive you are generally correct with your premise. I kind of subscribe to Tim Larkin's thoughts on this topic (don't get me wrong, I don't buy into all TFT's concepts but I think this ones a pretty good idea) Larkin's system teaches that there are two types of violence. The first type is "social violence" which is basically a physical engagement that is influenced by societies accepted norms. This includes combat sports which are actually governed bya definite set of rules and regulations ( an old concept is that if you want a good idea of what works on the street just look at the list of banned techniques from MMA rules). Much of the public thinks of these altercations are violence, which they are, but they are of the very limited type such as a teenager's shoving match or someone punching someone in the nose for a disrespectful remark or action.

What you are describing is what TFT calls "asocial violence". These are the kind of incidents where the attacker has little regard for the damage inflicted on his target up to and including death. This is the kind of violence most reality based systems are attempting to
address ( some more successfully than others). This includes most robberies/muggings, rapes, and of course killings.

The problem with MMA training while good at "social violence" training and learning basic physical skills it does not prepare you to make the transition to "asocial violence". This where the argument comes in that MMA fighters can use these "cheat techniques" like everyone else, which is true" but they will be prone to stay in "social violence" mode until the opponent makes the transition. This delay can be a considerable disadvantage to overcome aprimary example would be the attacker deploying a weapon such as a knife in the middle of the altercation or the opponent dropping a strike into the windpipe causing damage.

I'm probably opening a can of worms here, but this is just my opinion based on many years of experience in both combative sports (boxing, wrestling, and some training with some pretty well known MMA fighters) and real life while bouncing and working in law enforcement.

Keep safe and train hard/smart, Mark H

MarkH

you are indeed opening a can of worms... but its an old battered can thats been opened and closed so many times, the worms are all lethargic and half dead

its a "round and round the houses" debate... like an MMA teddy bear

to quote captain Jack Sparrow "The only rules that really matter are these: what a man can do and what a man can't do. "

sorry to be a facectious linguistic reductionist, yet again, but the truth is:

"some men who practise MMA and lift weights are very good at protecting themselves"

"some men who practise *insert RBSD flavour system* are utterly shite at tying their own shoelaces and generally functioning as a normal human being let alone protecting themselves"

I cant tell you how many "street fighting gurus" Ive met who failed to look me in the eye and shake hands... I cant tell you because I dont count.

At least we can guarantee that people who attend an MMA class and lift weights for a period of time will be capable of SOMETHING- even if its only a shitty clinch and the capacity to bench half their body weight for a rep

We cannot make the same guarantee about SOME of the urban ninja "threat overload" brigade who run around like spastics talking to pads and trying to sound angry and slapping them (sorry "palm strikes") whilst learning counter surveillance, tactical defensive driving, knife defence, pole defence, angry pole dancer defence, multiples, singlulars, angulars, globulars, shoes on, shoes off, lying down with one arm in a brace world war 2 revolver disarming stripping cleaning and instinctive point shooting whilst surfing away from a brace of shark riding pirates brandishing HIV ridden syringes and using their keys as a knuckduster to beat them back long enough to apply dressing with a tampon they carry alongside their tactical folder to the bullet wound in their thigh they got whilst in the drivethrough to maccy D's which was attacked by shaolin trained terrorists with bazookas... or something...

we have to start somewhere... if you have a man in front of you who is the same size and weight but very very cross with you on a scale of one to ten how confident are you that you could the fucker out? (ten being chuck norris one being woody allen)
how confident on a scale of one to ten you could restrain him?

if its less than 5 then quite simply your training is failing you, if you've been at that training for more than 6 months then you should ask for your money back or sue for false advertising:

the advert says I will feel confident and be able to defend myself- if you dont feel that and you arent able- ask for your money back. simple.

here is a funny pic I got from bullshido.com

its a good question guys and Im not having a go at either of you, Lonewolf or Markh in any way shape or form- despite the fact that Im a contrary argumentative belligerent fuckwit I actually do only want to help, I worry sometimes that might not come through

Richard,

I don't disagree with you at all. Thats why I still condition and train with the younger crowd ( I'm 47 yoa) in MMA style training. I just make sure I go the extra mile and do scenereio based training, and train as realistically as possible the more dangerous stuff as well as incorporating everything up to and including the use of firearms in Close Quarter combat. Nothing beats non stop MMA style fight training for conditioning the body and the mind for toughness, except when you are allowed to insert those "cheats" into your training
with others who are willing to donate their bodies to scientific study.

Keep safe and train hard/smart, Mark H

POTM

Richard Grannon wrote:

MarkH

you are indeed opening a can of worms... but its an old battered can thats been opened and closed so many times, the worms are all lethargic and half dead

its a "round and round the houses" debate... like an MMA teddy bear

to quote captain Jack Sparrow "The only rules that really matter are these: what a man can do and what a man can't do. "

sorry to be a facectious linguistic reductionist, yet again, but the truth is:

"some men who practise MMA and lift weights are very good at protecting themselves"

"some men who practise *insert RBSD flavour system* are utterly shite at tying their own shoelaces and generally functioning as a normal human being let alone protecting themselves"

I cant tell you how many "street fighting gurus" Ive met who failed to look me in the eye and shake hands... I cant tell you because I dont count.

At least we can guarantee that people who attend an MMA class and lift weights for a period of time will be capable of SOMETHING- even if its only a shitty clinch and the capacity to bench half their body weight for a rep

We cannot make the same guarantee about SOME of the urban ninja "threat overload" brigade who run around like spastics talking to pads and trying to sound angry and slapping them (sorry "palm strikes") whilst learning counter surveillance, tactical defensive driving, knife defence, pole defence, angry pole dancer defence, multiples, singlulars, angulars, globulars, shoes on, shoes off, lying down with one arm in a brace world war 2 revolver disarming stripping cleaning and instinctive point shooting whilst surfing away from a brace of shark riding pirates brandishing HIV ridden syringes and using their keys as a knuckduster to beat them back long enough to apply dressing with a tampon they carry alongside their tactical folder to the bullet wound in their thigh they got whilst in the drivethrough to maccy D's which was attacked by shaolin trained terrorists with bazookas... or something...

we have to start somewhere... if you have a man in front of you who is the same size and weight but very very cross with you on a scale of one to ten how confident are you that you could the fucker out? (ten being chuck norris one being woody allen)
how confident on a scale of one to ten you could restrain him?

if its less than 5 then quite simply your training is failing you, if you've been at that training for more than 6 months then you should ask for your money back or sue for false advertising:

the advert says I will feel confident and be able to defend myself- if you dont feel that and you arent able- ask for your money back. simple.

here is a funny pic I got from bullshido.com

Cool responses once again! I think next thread I start I'm just going to say a word and have people write about what it means to them. haha. I love reading this shit.

As for this thread. Yeah I think I generalized once again... I believe I thought up this thread because I met too many MMA jock meatwads lately who think grappling and sport fighting is some kind of dead serious battle(this guy who tryed to fight with me not too long ago after I spilled a drink on him said he would "tap me out" and he was dead serious. I almost pissed my pants laughing. He tryed to clinch me and I head butt him right in the nose and then hooked in the face and he almost went down if his friends didn't grab him and break us up. I was just laughing so hard, it was so funny) Especially after a UFC pay-per-view at a packed bar the other day, it was damn funny shit to witness.

Personally to me, MMA is a game. It's an adrenaline pumping fun kind of risky game, but a game none the less. Plus it gets you in shape and stuff, which is always a plus! Girls like a man who gives a shit about their health.

I used to box amateur, that was fun. And I did MMA for a little bit, I never fought in MMA though. I only boxed. After a few years training in boxing and a few fights, I joined JJ. I liked the grappling sparring in Jui-jitsu but it got boring and I found some of the techniques were a waste of memory to learn. Some of the techniques if you used them in a violent situation, it would be like trying to fold oragami with a huge adrenaline rush or something or at least thats what it felt like to me. It was absurd. Especially when I tryed to do a judo throw on this crazy cracky one time, getting him on my back falling over a curb smashing my forehead and nose off the concrete and wound up with the guy on top of me elbowing me till my face looked like bloody mush.(that hurt, glad the guy stopped elbowing and just ran away. I wasn't unconscious but I was pretty bloody.) Maybe some people can pull off the MMA moves in a violent situation but I SURE AS HELL CANT. hahah. Maybe thats why I hate MMA. hahaha. Weapons, biting and random spastic fists of fear adrenaline always worked for me... but I'd say I'm more of a lover then a fighter. But I'd give myself modestly a 7.5 on that scale. I've knocked out a few people who have attacked me but I dont like doing that shit really. I'd rather walk away.

although my training is very much RBSD focused these days I come from a kick boxing back ground. I only got in the ring or on the mat a handful of times.

about the time I started training UFC1 was happening. I was cross training before it was even really a term. If I was a few years younger I think I'd certainly have got into cage fighting as a competitor. Although there are succesful fighters of my age and older, they're at their peak and have the experience. I'm certainly too old to get on the ladder now.

I think most of the guys n the UFC can be inspirational people, even to RBSD minded trainers. honestly, how do you think Couture, Anderson Silva, Chuck, GSP, Rampage, etc would fair in a self protection scenario? better or worse than the average man? better or worse than the average martial artist? better or worse than top RBSD instructors?

A guy that trains MMA once a week is no more prepared for the street than a guy that does Karate and spends hours in his pyjamas doing Kata, or a TKD "fighter" who can rbeak boards dangling from the roof.

however, highly trained athletes who regularly enter the cage against other highly trained athletes and engage in full contact combat will surely have a considerable edge over a random attacker.

with all that said if you can look Randy Couture in the face and still want to picka fight I would suggest you're either mental or you're superman

It's ok to be a self protection martial artist and a UFC fan too

(Get your pocket money on Randy to beat Brock. TKO 3rd or 4th round)