Road Rage Preemprive Strike?

Quote :

Well about 4 days ago i was with a friend and the fucking idiot was messing with his ipod trying to get the particular song that he wanted to play on.
Wile doing this the ace driver that he is he coasts into the lane beside us.
Now i was wearing my seatbelt and it would have been on his side.
He runs some large truck off the road, The guy takes a huge fucking U-turn and almost wipes out a mini van on his way back to us.
We are pulled over on the side of the road wile im screaming at my friend for being an idiot.
This guy comes up, slams on his breaks and jumps out of his truck.
Kicks my friends front left tire on his car and says "Get out of the fucking car!"
My friend just sat and shit on himself and was going to let this idiot tear up his car.
Now I, myself was not to happy with my friend at the moment and later told him if he ever risked my life in something as stupid as getting his ipod to play, i would beat his ass myself.
But i wasn't going to let this ass break his headlights or anything.

So i get out of the car, and start working with my verbal de-escalation techniques.
This guy was a bit larger than me but after he came in closer and saw the fence ready and that under my hoody im in pretty decent shape he calmed down.

I guess my main question is, if someone is speeding back at me like that or something, even though my friend did run him off the road and i would probably react the same way if my girlfriend, siblings where in the car and i thought they where in danger.

What are the legal problems if he wants to get within my space and i use a preemptive strike.

Since my friend ran him off the road would a judge look at that as being my fault on both ends?

It just put me into a situation that i previously hadn't thought of and i was more hesitant to react, and that made me uncomfortable.


So any help?

Sorry that new feature or whatever, i wasnt going to sit and count out letters and make multiple posts.

Cheers!

the fact that you or your party were legally or morally "in the wrong" doesnt give him any more legal right to do something illegal, i.e. try and assualt or intimidate you

just stick to your SOP's, make a good loud show of saying "stay back, calm down", do NOT move towards him, let him come to you- then you are covered as long as you use reasonable force

Im not qualified to give legal advice, nor is this legal advice- its just an opinion based on my experience

Hey Hunter,

As far as how a judge would look at something like that here in the US. You had the choice of staying in the car, which is what a prudent person would do and call the police if you felt threated by a crazed fool. Imagine being asked this question in court. Mr. Hunter, what did you intend to do once you got out of the car, if you indeed did think he was in a rage?

...don't you just love it. minimum force... or minimal force. preparing to not be a victim, or waiting for a losing hand to play out. it doesn't surprize me a bit. i'm sure you know what you're saying roadkill, but the flip side of that hypothetical question--that would get asked, is having an answer for it that is respectable. "i felt threatened and the last place i wanted to be was 'in' the car while this lunatic who just almost side-swiped a van peeled to a stop and started on the car--and probably me next...i think i thought i was going to run but then i stayed because my friend hadn't gotten out". i'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6...know what i mean???

and in case it didn't convey. i am truly just stating my position, and not challenging your knowledge of the law or you. and i'm aware that you were stating the law as it is. i think, regardless, the right choice falls into the catagory of saving one's own ass and letting things play out. if you have the right intention, things often have a way of playing out well enough, in spite of the nuisance that serves as the transition. i know of some things that support this, but i don't want to make anyone suffer who's had to read them several times over(i.e. person judged by 12 eventually being declared innocent).

Russell, Yes I was simply providing a perspective that has often played out in the courts, not what I might do personally. You live in the US, I know you have seen what our judicial system does. However it sounds like you may have misread the original post. The lunatic did almost sideswipe them... it was the other way around. He just got super pissed off about it.

As far as judged by 12 than carried by 6. It’s one of my favorite expressions. But a fair amount of common sense has to go along with that. IE: raging lunatic outside your car… simply drive off.

...i don't really think we're at odds philosophically.
i sort of expect we're mostly on the same page, to include the proper way to view the expression, "judged by 12". don't think i mis-read it though. i've been in the car with my dad--world's worst driver. and i can commiserate anyone who wants a piece of him...but, almost hitting a mini-van, pulling up and screaming 'get out of the car', and kicking a tire.
or quoting,
The guy takes a huge fucking U-turn and almost wipes out a mini van on his way back to us.

i think driving off seems prudent, if it's possible. otherwise, i sort of feel Hunter was on the money for responses--right down to de-escalation stuff. i know from an experience of my own that i feel uncomfortable in my seat if i can't drive off.

but again, i'm pretty sure we're all speaking the same language, i'm just clarifying.

I think Roadkill has a good point, that I didnt consider in my first reply- could getting out of the car be construed by a cunning defense lawyer person to be aggravation or provocation?

was it the most sensible thing to do?

one night last week whilst going out for dimsum in Liverpool with my girlfriend and her mum, who speaks with a heavy cantonese accent, said to me whilst we were driving near some drunks :

"Lock the Door-ah, save your feeests, Pweevention better dan cuuuuure- lar"

(thats "lock the door, save your fists, prevention is better than cure" for those who dont read phonetic cantonese accented english)

Pretty good advice!

Having said that, allow me to counterbalance the other way:
I wouldnt want to receive an attack sat in a car... now that i think about it I was once attacked in a crappy mini moke jeep having strapped myself in with the plastic roof off I was a sitting duck.

"In Mr Hunter's defence your honour he was not at that time in control of the vehicle so could not drive away, he felt the driver of the truck has displayed enough aggression and violent intent to warrant beleiving he would have to defend himself and his friend against an imminent physical attack- FEARING for himself and his freind he thought it safest to get out of the stationary car as defending an attack whilst trapped in a vulnerable position inside the car would of been extremely difficult, and try to calm the other driver down..."

Damn I missed my calling... what do you think Roadkill? a career for me in criminal law? at this point in now comes down to the jury on the day doesnt it- which I think is what Russel meant- you are now literally facing being judged by 12 with a fairly good chance of getting away with it provided you used reasonable force and acted within accordance of the law.

In my unqualified opinion and having never lived in the states despite being an "amremcinan"- will the judgement differ from state to state I wonder?

nice answer!
on all counts. and may i add you already have more skills than most the lawyers i've had in, or not in my corner

i probably could tell some funny court stories: this is a quote,

"...and exactly how long have you been working as a security guard?"
-smugly, as an attempt to show how much of a loser i was...not knowing the answer to his question-

"uhm...12 years"

the only thing that would have been more embarassing is if he had farted and slipped simultaniously

but the flip side is...i did meet one that was really sharp--fekking scary sharp, just buying sometime before conquering the world. luckily he was the prosecuting attorney and i was just a lacky guard witness.

Hey guys, well in this case. I didn't jump out of the car all hot headed because that would probably end with a tire iron meeting my face. But i got out and just started trying pattern disrupts.
I.E. "Well is it a big giraffe or a small one... friend?"

The guy got a massive adrenaline dump from that one and ended up muttering.
"Where the fuck did he see a giraffe?"
On the way back to his car. This particular encounter wasn't that bad.
Im just trying to prepare myself for a possible back encounter, this situation never dawned upon me that i might be put into it. I guess i just felt off gaurd.
But yea recently turned 18 so i haven't had the experience of you legendary ninja warrior assassins like Richie.

Thanks for all the advice.

Quote :

But yea recently turned 18 so i haven't had the experience of you legendary ninja warrior assassins like Richie.

sounds like you did just fine mate, just bear in mind whats been discussed here

Richard Grannon wrote:

"In Mr Hunter's defence your honour he was not at that time in control of the vehicle so could not drive away, he felt the driver of the truck has displayed enough aggression and violent intent to warrant beleiving he would have to defend himself and his friend against an imminent physical attack- FEARING for himself and his freind he thought it safest to get out of the stationary car as defending an attack whilst trapped in a vulnerable position inside the car would of been extremely difficult, and try to calm the other driver down..."

Not bad, But... (There is that damn but again)

Just playing devils advocate here with some potential prosecution questions (I am not a lawyer) :

What experience do you have in identifying violent intent, (this would not be a good time to describe bar fights) and probably followed by what is your education level. "Oh so you do not have a degree in psychology do you Mr. Hunter."

So tell me Mr. Hunter what type violent attack did you think you might be susceptible to in an enclosed vehicle that he would cause you physical harm, after all he did not have a baseball bat in his hands.

Actually im starting my first year of college taking my base classes for psychology.

SO WHAT NOW!

jk...

But yea kicking the tire and slamming his fist into the hood,not to mention a loud "Get out of the fucking car" should work fine to show how serious he was.

He had nobody else in his vehicle with him so it would be the two of us against his word.

But the main thing is that now i have had the experience of the encounter and walked away fine and got to practice my pattern disrupts.

Nobody got hurt and lets not get the

What if..
1.ninjas jumped out of the back of his truck with swords?!
2.he had a sawed off shotgun under his coat?!
3.he was a Japanese master and hit me with his "Death Touch"



But i do appreciate all the answers and feel that now i am better prepared to handle future situations that will be similar to this one.

I've heard allot of criminal proceedings (im not a lawyer), & I've heard the attourneys go at it in trial and with a judge.

Dont let the "ego" do the thinking for you in a hot situation.

Something to consider if it does go to court (thanks to your "ego").

youll probably end up loosing your house and your life savings on a good lawyer/s. Either from prosecution for assault and battery or a lawsuit from the then innocent "victim" you took down. Even dough you may/will end up getting off.

And trials are long, attourney fees range from $200 hour and up.

Something to consider.

Constantine wrote:

I've heard allot of criminal proceedings (im not a lawyer), & I've heard the attourneys go at it in trial and with a judge.

Dont let the "ego" do the thinking for you in a hot situation.

Something to consider if it does go to court (thanks to your "ego").

youll probably end up loosing your house and your life savings on a good lawyer/s. Either from prosecution for assault and battery or a lawsuit from the then innocent "victim" you took down. Even dough you may/will end up getting off.

And trials are long, attourney fees range from $200 hour and up.

Something to consider.

Did you read my post? It wasn't ego, i wasn't trying to pick a fight.
But im not going to let some asshole smash up my friends car.
And since im 18 and he was probably around 30ish, i think he would take the bigger blow for an ego problem.
I read your post and i dont really think it contributed anything...

Hunter I dont think that was directed at you mate, he was just saying as a general thing

Reads like general advice to me. Good too BTW.

My inclination is to consider physical safety first and legal matters second. But to be honest the courtroom scares me more, probably because I lack a clear understanding about how to play that particular game. Something to look into I guess.

Hunter32,

Got to say I agree with Constantine. Getting physically involved with a hostile stranger is the last thing a reasonable person wants to do. If the rest of the thread proves anything, it's that almost any action can be interpreted by lawyers to show wrong intent. Waiting out somebody's temper tantrum inside the car may not seem like the most manly course but, absent anything more than tire-kicking and hood-pounding, making yourself available for a physical confrontation, with who knows what results, is hard to justify. Especially if the best you can do is: I wasn't going to let some asshole smash up my friend's car."

Best,

--4444

[/quote]Did you read my post? It wasn't ego, i wasn't trying to pick a fight.[quote]

Hey Hunter,

it wasn't directed at you in anyway. Thats why you did not see any quotes to your posting.

This was more of a general statement to the whole forum, something to keep in the back of everyones head.

As to my statement being of any contribution...well, I have my ego under control. So I have nothing to prove.

Be safe.

Theres a video on Tims blog about picking fights. and the winner is.....

www.targetfocustraining.com/blog/

In a situation like that I would try to get my friend to drive off. If the guy than follows us than have your friend drive to the police station. If my friend won't drive off I would handle it like you did.

Vic C wrote:

In a situation like that I would try to get my friend to drive off. If the guy than follows us than have your friend drive to the police station. If my friend won't drive off I would handle it like you did.

Nice advice lol, i feel like an idiot i didnt think to tell him to drive off.

I guess we where just freaked out about almost dying that we never thought about that....

Sounds sad to say that though.

"pweevention better dan cuuuure"

learn to drive and get a car, dont be a passenger in his car again

you are young so im assuming your friend is a young driver too- I dont know about in the States, but here in the UK young male drivers love killing themselves in cars, unfortunately they kill other people in the process

mate he could of run someone over because he was fucking with his ipod, so next time it happens save who ever wants to come over and road rage your mate the hassle by delivering a beating yourself- you are after all a lot closer plus its a great pattern interrupt for the would be road rager to see the drivers friend knocking crap out of him!

Joking aside, we really havent looked at your friends responsibility in all this so far- I would of let him take a bit of a beating, if a good scare and a bit of pain puts the fear into him it might stop him from killing someone one day.

You seem like a nice lad, want the pressure of knowing you were in the car that ran someone over on your conscience for the rest of your days?

Just a thought.

Yea i have a truck that i drive, he has a car so with gas prices we've been doing little car pull type thing, but yea. After all that when we got back to my house i grabbed him,kicked his legs out from under him. After i was on top of him i let him know that if he ever did something that stupid with my life in his hands again id hurt him so bad he couldn't drive again for a month.


And i haven't rode with him since.

Ive been making him go half's with me on gas for my truck.