Family Threatened = Instant Black Belt!.. Combative State..

Hi guys,
This was inspired by Sharif's post on his experience and it reminding me of certain experiences in my own life.

It brings up the major question, that may or may not have been discussed here, I don't remember.

But..

Why is it that we are much more likely to get in the right combative state when people we love are threatened and prepared to do almost anything than when we are when its only us that is threatened?

Its like on one of Tony Blauer's cd's, he says he did a womens self defense seminar. I think he used Ted Bundy as an example (hahah I actually thought it was Al Bundy, but hes just the guy off married with children).

He asked how many of them thought they could defend themselves against him? Only one put her hand up.

Then he said "what if you come come and he had your daughter tied to the table and a knife pointed at her genitals".

He said that the women went crazy "I would fucking kill him, why the fuck are you saying that, thats sick.. I want my money back" etc..

He said to them "hey.. when did you all get your blackbelts? How come you went from not being able to defend yourselves, a victim, to instantly, wanting to kill him and not caring about your own safety?"..

Its an interesting psychological thing that seems to be inside us all. I don't have any explanation about it, except to say i've experienced it several times, but it is still a mystery to me.

I will think about it and see what I come up with, but for now I wanted to see what you guys thought and your experiences with this.

-Ben

Funny you should mention this, I've really only started fights when I felt my friends were being threatened (though I have retailiated when I've been threatened).

Just had to edit this post to say that I hadn't read Sharif's recent one. Disregard the above, it's a different league and i've never been in the situation where I've personally found that stuff out.

Been leaving this post because I don't really know what to say, Protective instinct for others, overrides are own failings & fears perhaps? The risk to them nullifying your fear of the risk to you? Certainly with your children, there is an element of protecting your investment. :-)

Having some issues this week with my son being bullied, 6 of them, one of him. Started on monday with just names, last night they were hitting him. We've spoken to the school & they say they are handling it, as it is Friday, we will see how it goes as he leaves school to night. Doing the right things about it, but you have a sort of impotent rage. I can't beat up 11 year olds.
I know it is really worrying him, was going to meet him from school and walk him home, he got punched in the leg by 2 kids from a diff school last week, but his Mum has already promised to meet him. Oh well. he is going to have to learn how to deal with this sometime. And as men, this shit never seems to really stop. You still get crap off some twat in a pub or club or occasionally walking the dog.

This is a job for psychology... Riche



Why?

Matt,

i have a friend--that i train actually. an ex military guy who is quite the
executive these days. his daughters got bullied. he called the school and
said, "solve this problem or i will" and followed up with a very dry, "the
next time she gets messed with [regarding one of his daughters] i'm going
to tell my daughter she has my permission to [can't remember what he
said, something to the effect of ] stick a pencil right in his eye.

it might sound way out of balance but you're basically embarassing the
school by saying, make it safe for my son or i'll make it unsafe for other
people's sons, etc...he's the kind of guy that would tell them in the same
breath that he's talking with his attorney over the matter should it persist, etc...

pardon my, uhm, french but fuk' being nice. fuk them not being able to put
themselves in your shoes...just plain FUK them. fix the fuk'ing problem or
i'll be your real problem, kinda like. i haven't gone through this yet, but i
like my student/friend and sort of respect the guy in general.

***

back to the thread subject directly. it may be because our attachments [loved
ones] measure way more tangibly than our selves--who we may spend our whole
lives not really knowing. many people are still redefining themselves, or finding
themselves until retirement age. loved ones needs no pep talk, no script to learn,
no code to rehearse. loved ones and the threat of losing them, suffering by way
of their suffering...that's as tangible as it gets.

your wife's unhappy, unsafe, hurt, crippled...or what have you. your completely
fooked. our eyes don't point inward, we're extroverted creatures. our eyes and
all that matters to us, our worlds, are the folks around us that we cherish. i had to
learn to defend myself--it took anger over being punched. bottomless pit type anger.
i had to be a dog that was kicked too much, and eventually turn mean. i needed no
learning curve when others threatened my mother, or even my grandmother who
i didn't always get on with. god help anyone who messes with my daughter, because
now you added dependency--from them, innocense--from them, and attachment--from
oneself to the mix. a deadly combination for commitment. i've walked over cars,
chased someone like a madman, been ready to drive a bread knife through someone,
gone to a gangster for help over, etc...etc...etc... over the safety of my mum.
that's some biblical type anger that used to well up in me. she was my achilles heal,
and as for myself...i'd fall asleep drunk on the sidewalk at one point in my life.

some odd shit, that. when my mum was dying and my brother and father were about
to get in an actual fight over stupid shit in the room. even for them, my blood boiled
and my head felt like it was on fire. i grabbed them both and through them out. i'm
the baby of the family and i did this. a shock wave went through my family that day.

i almost think it's inversely proportionate [to add to the equation] to low esteam. now
i'm quite balanced in that department. not sure but i think it related to the martial arts
path and the credit i got along the way--to include jobs, etc...

Reason why...?

Hmm. The species-preservation instinct? The reason we ourselves try to avoid violence instinctively is that we don't want to threaten the continuation of our species by harming another member of the same species. And of course, self preservation, which is just plain old will-to-live.

But when our family are threatened, I guess it must trigger the instinct for protecting offspring. Even if it's not our kids, we often feel a certain amount of responsibility for family and even freinds. At which point the mid-brain tells us the the continuation of the species is again threatened (even though in this case, the threat is a same-species member)

That's about all I could think of in terms of possible psychological/scientific reasons.

Blackops. Man... this is the one self-protection scenario I've NEVER been able to come up with a decent tactical solution for that ticks all the boxes of morality/ethics, legality, common sense etc. The best I've ever been able to come up with is "tell teachers and parents". Anything else starts to get hairy. Teaching kids to fight, confronting the bullies your self etc etc...it's all a recipe for disaster.

One thing I know though, but won't ever give as general advice (because it's incredibly sensitive the individual situation) is that I could have taken care of the kids who gave me a hard time at school much more quickly if I had just got the main guy by himself and decked him. But again.... we can't go telling kids to do that. And kids are different these days. It might not work but only make things worse.

Why do you think he gets bullied mate?

Russell. You are my new Supra state, mate.

I will Pm you & let you know whats going on. Not sure that sticking pencil's in kid's eyes will solve this particular problem to the satisfaction of all. But I very much appreciate the support. Thankyou.

He gets bullied because he is twice the size of all his contemporarys & because he is classed as "Special Needs" as his mother managed to bully a partial diagnosis of "Asperger's Syndrome" out of an Educational Psychologist. Personally, i believe she has Munchausen's by proxy (Maybe I am not joking there. She was always weird, i just didnt have the experience with women to notice.)

He doesnt have Asperger's. I have spent considerable time with children with Asperger's & he is nothing like them.

I had the same problems through most of middle school, High School however which Jago has just started, only minor, minor problems. My best mate, Eddie (wish I was having a beer with you now Bro) says that was because in my first week at school I repeatedly head butted a door & everyone thought I was psychotic.
I am loathe to advise my own son to do this.

Don't get me started on the diagnosing-kids-with-'learning difficulties' issue. Really, I'm getting wound up just thinking about it. I now feel for you even more...

The stigma has gone the other way in some parents eyes. They see preferential treatment & excuses for bad behaviour if they get a diagnosis. The extra funding is great, who is going to turn down free money? & the perks on top are fantastic.

ADHD is a good example. Should be a 50/50 split in kids that young but is predominately boys. Far be it for me to suggest that they would like to be outside running around and playing like little kids should, rather than cooped up, in front of the telly or computer game.


Sorry, this has gone wwwwaaaaaaaaaaaayyyy off topic again.

Would be very interested in other peoples opinions of Bens question.

Sharif H wrote:

Blackops. Man... this is the one self-protection scenario I've NEVER been able to come up with a decent tactical solution for that ticks all the boxes of morality/ethics, legality, common sense etc. The best I've ever been able to come up with is "tell teachers and parents". Anything else starts to get hairy. Teaching kids to fight, confronting the bullies your self etc etc...it's all a recipe for disaster.

One thing I know though, but won't ever give as general advice (because it's incredibly sensitive the individual situation) is that I could have taken care of the kids who gave me a hard time at school much more quickly if I had just got the main guy by himself and decked him. But again.... we can't go telling kids to do that. And kids are different these days. It might not work but only make things worse.

and that's the responsible answer. the one i might have given too. but i had to look at what my student/friend did and ask
why it worked twice in two different schools, with two different daughters. he didn't even tell his daughters to stick a pencil
in their eyes--i actually don't know what he said exactly, i just know it was thought provoking. what he did was take a preemptive approach to making the environment for his daughters change at a faster learning curve rate. he--in a sense, attacked the real problem, the environment [which is directly the responsibility of the teachers to maintain]. by not coming in crying and pleading, but instead letting those professionals feel like that haven't provided an academic and safe environment for his daughters, he provoked an immediate response on the part of the admin/teachers/etc... they're collective arses were being called into question. sort of a dog-brothers response if you ask me.

did they like him afterward. probably not. did he really care though, or was his objective the immediate change in climate for his daughters. this is why i saw merit in what he did. he was playing a real chess match, knowing exactly the ripple it would
send through their worlds, and getting a dramatic--albeit magical, response. in the end, some 'fraidy-cats will be the first to
shake his hand, others will look away...but if either one of his daughters is messed with again, regardless of how face-savingly they approach a solution, the results again will be immediate.

but before meeting him, i'd have said the same thing you just did...and completely understand why you said it--trust me.

food for thought is all.

Sharif H wrote:

Don't get me started on the diagnosing-kids-with-'learning difficulties' issue. Really, I'm getting wound up just thinking about it. I now feel for you even more...

me too

on both counts




Blakops

Quote :

ADHD is a good example. Should be a 50/50 split in kids that young but is predominately boys. Far be it for me to suggest that they would like to be outside running around and playing like little kids should, rather than cooped up, in front of the telly or computer game.

how very dare you combine common sense and humour to mock this very serious (very lucrative) "brain virus" that preys on innocent children... whilst simultaneously providing teachers with a reasonable sounding "out" for not doing their jobs



Roadkill, what Sharif said as to the reason, will write an article on it though as its such a beast of a topic

thanks for posting Ben

I cant believe there are people who mock the judgement of highly skilled, highly motivated (paid) health professionals/teachers, implying they would diagnose something like ADHD, just to avoid calling the child what they are..evil little barstewards. My former neighbour's 13yr old mutant boy's bullying, assaults, vandalism, theft and arson were all blamed on ADHD after much expensive consultation.

Because he had a recognised problem, (he wasn't just a naughty boy then?), he was allowed to stay at school. But, after receiving the prescribed treatment enabling him to become a normal member of society, surprise surprise he continued his reign of terror. His antics were curtailed after he tried to set light to the local library and was placed in secure accomodation. I too think professionals end up labelling kids as having special needs to cover their own shortcomings. My neighbour's son didn't have ADHD in my humble opinion..he was just a turd!

My kids are 3 and 6, and from experience I know they'll face bullying of some kind during school in particular. I only hope I learn how to deal with it correctly...my initial reaction would be to beat the offender!!

Quote :

Because he had a recognised problem, (he wasn't just a naughty boy then?), he was allowed to stay at school. But, after receiving the prescribed treatment enabling him to become a normal member of society, surprise surprise he continued his reign of terror.

overstimulated, poorly nourished, over sugared, no self disciplined kids (who are just walking "id"s some of them, a bag of impulses on legs) in a boring, overcrowded, overheated classroom learning useless shite they dont need from a burnt out, cynical teacher who doesnt want to be there any more = kids kicking off with tourettes style outbursts (no impulse control) which cannot be controlled with threats (threats require you to feel fear in order to work, fear of what??!) or appealing to their better nature (if they havent developed one yet) is a situation with no real solution

unless you actually start training parents AND teachers... which the company I used to worked for in the schools provided, but how far should this go?

I mean some schools provide breakfasts now because, surprise sruprise, a bag of crisps and a can of tango for breakfast does not a good and attentive pupil make

so they head straight for the easiest most lucrative solution: ritalin


Drug them. Drug these normal children who are just bored and badly trained.

Thats our best solution? ... Feed them drugs to counteract the effect of the nutritional "drugs"??!!

How about a better diet and some better training first? Shouldnt we as a civilised society being exhauting the non pharmaceutical options first?

Its madness, it really is.