Earlier tonight...my girlfriend Vs Knife

I'll try and keep it brief.

My girlfriend (yep, the mother of my son, we're not married) works nights on Thursdays.

So it's almost 10pm, I'm cooking/watching the boy and expecting her home soon. The home phone rings and it's her, out of breath. She says "why didn't you pick up your mobile?! I called twice! Please come out of the house, I'm down the road"

The line goes dead.

No time to think. Running shoes on. Boy in one arm, grab his jacket on the way out (I figured I'll put it on him on the run, it's freezing outside). I'm assuming she's being followed, so I'm considering going back for an equalizer or at least my leather gloves (slash-proof). No time. I get to the main door of the apartment block and she's already on her way in. She'd obviously been running.

I ask if she's ok. She's fine. She tells me that at the store (five mins walk from our place) a guy pulled a knife on her, and then coming back, a different guy in a silver car was following her to the end of our road.

I sprint off down the road, looking for a silver car with somebody in it (it's closer than the store, I'll get the knife guy later, but first - the car). I realize I didn't get a description of the driver. And also, all he did was try and eye her up from his car. It's not so serious and not related to the knife guy, she said. I see silver cars parked up, but all empty.

One down, one knife man to find.

I sprint back to the flat. (Adrenaline + cardio equals fucking asthma attack). Luckily i'm very familiar with the feeling.

I get in, tell her to get the boy's jacket on while I grab my car keys. I ask her to tell me exactly about the first incident while she puts his jacket on.

Turns out that as she walked into the store, three kids (about 16 years old) tried to chat her up. Which instantly is ridiculous; she's 25. She ignored them and went in. Being a regular, she kind of knows one of the guys who works in the store (Afghani family-owned grocery place) who says hi to her on the way in. She gets to the back on the store, hears some one behind her, turns out to be one of these pricks. He pulls a knife on her, and for some reason tries to keep chatting her up, with a fucking knife pointed at her. Not touching her, he aiming it at solar-plexus level. Without thinking, she pretty much told him to fuck off and shoved past him (she didn't think it was real at this point). The store owner tells the kid to fuck off.

While she's been telling me this (we're talking like 10 seconds here), I put my heavy hooded jacket on and black leather gloves. I figure I'm gonna be disarming some knives. She's fiddling with our son's jacket trying to do the zip up with shaky hands. I'm in short, sharp, shock / take-control mode and not-so-politely tell her to forget the fucking zip and pick him up.

I pretty much throw them both in the back of the car. Quickly do up his baby car seat thing (had to do that properly, no matter how much of a hurry i'm in) I lock the doors except my own and leave my seatbelt off. I'll need to get out quickly.

She gives me descriptions and directions of where they were headed. She tells me the rest of the story....

So basically, the Afghan guy walked her part of the way home. She now has her pocket alarm I gave her in her hand. She says she's fine so he goes back and says he'll look for them. He wanted to smash them. Got to remember, this guy is from a country where if a kid did that - he'd be fucking killed. No messing about. Justice Afghan style.
So she turns the corner and that's when this guy in the car starts following her (what a combo, a knife guy and a perv in one night) She gives me a description of the knife. I tell her it wasn't fake, it just wasn't polished steel. It was a prison style shank/shiv by the sounds of it. I know... i used to be a carrier myself. Been around knives since I was way to young to be around knives.

We drive around. No luck. I already know what my next plan is. It's at times like this i'm so fucking clear-headed it's scary.

I drop them home. I ask which guy it is at the store who helped her.

I pick up some new items to take with me. Nothing illegal. But potentially helpful tools none the less.

I head to the store on foot, trying not to look anybody in the eye. The people I encounter on the way aren't humans... just targets. Dark thoughts swimming through my head.

I get to the store, and consciously adjust my attitude. I don't want the guy to think I'm upset with him - my face was like stone so I had to soften it up. I had two objectives: 1) to find out if he knows the guys and where I can find them. 2) thank him for his chivalry.

I spin the shit with him and use some basic polite Arabic to show respect (not the main language I believe, but they do speak it in Afghanistan).

No luck. He'd never seen them before. But I did get to shake his hand. Good man. I liked him instantly. I should have left my card for him to call if he sees them again. I may drop by tomorrow and do that.

When I got home, i could finally give her a hug and just be there for her. Until this point, I was a soldier with a mission.

On the way home I did some philosophizing...

How easily life and death happen. Life: like the conception of our son - an unplanned surprise. Life comes into the world very quickly. Death: the potential of what could have happened to my girlfriend. In the blink of an eye, as she brushed past him, he could have killed her. Like other people I've known who have been killed.

And how positive can always be found in the negative. A brief moment of intense bonding between me and that Afghani guy, a shared hatred and anger that allowed us to connect on a weird level. If he wasn't behind the counter, I reckon he would have hugged me. That's 'the street' for you... freinds are like family, and enemies are real enemies.

I'm also going to do a personal safety presentation and some basic SD techniques with my girlfriend and any of her girl-friends who want to come. Which, without this incident, probably wouldn't happen - people need this things to happen to highlight reality.

So that's it. If my gym was still open, I'd be in there now. And if it wasn't so late (and the walls so thin), I'd take my bag out for some ground and pound

Wow ... glad you are all OK.
Nasty moment for sure, but pretty cool you've found an ally in the neighborhood. We are all stronger when we work together.
Nice that this has also created an opening for doing some SP training for your gf and her friends - something positive could come out of this.

Very Very glad She is okay & that you are okay. That is an atrocious thing to happen, You are obviously very keyed up.


Did/have you phoned the Police? If not, why not?. There is cctv in the shop? Did/could you view it?

You took them with you in the car, your parner & your son? What were you going to do? Engage them if you saw them?

There is potentially three & at least one has a weapon, these are not odds you should face in any situation, least of all one your instigating. This is real world, knives dont strip that easy.

Sorry if this sounds like a critiscism

Just very glad you are both unharmed.

Take care

Matt

Shar,
glad you, your girlfriend, and your son are okay. that's a shitty place to be inside. a hurried and exasperated phone
call--which doesn't get any easier once you hear the circumstances. glad--too, you met an allie. you must have been
[perhaps still are] boiling. this guys think they can do this stuff in a vacuum. it's how everything just spirals and
goes rotten. keep your inner fire burning, you may still need it. the time that has passed between now and then will
serve to consider greater safety and legal concerns. for your sake, i hope the best possible scenario comes out of
this. i can't say what that is, perhaps you and your afgani pal bringing him in--and being forced to dole out a beating
from his clumsy initial response. but since this sort of thing is often not that beautiful as it plays out, i'd be happy with
you guys staying injury free--and the universe somehow swallowing up those shitheads. as Matt once said on another
thread topic, maybe a semi will barrel into them at a great speed while they are driving home from the pub [to heavily
paraphrase].

my thoughts are with you are your family--and your new friend. knowing he's a stand up guy, you may be able to
return the favor one day, who knows. it's a guy thing to make friends in this way. init?

don't know you well enough to know if it's easy re'kindling such a fire, but i reckon simply thinking of your son and
how he'd feel about his mum being hurt, etc...is a place from which to draw.

peace. mr. buddhist, you're probably protected for all your rightful intent. perhaps that's what kept you from finding
them tonight. a thought that occurs to me at times. i like to think that if i do indeed find someone under vile conditions,
it's sort of presented to me from said universe that i seek to tread lightly upon. and thank. and be humble before.

thoughts of a caring madman,
peace mate


newly edited after reading Matt's response--who pre'empted me AGAIN

wise words...i'm not retracting mine, but perhaps it's good to absorb both and gain some of your own insights--trusting
that those on this forum care for the welfare of you and your family.

First, I’m very glad that everyone is safe and it turned out as well as it did. Yep, that would really piss me off…

Definitely re-enforce the new friendship with the shop keeper, you never know just how far that may go.

I have to ask… Why did you take your child and girl friend with you when you went to the store? The last thing I would want when potentially going into battle, is to have to protect or worry about more than just myself, if I don’t have to.

For how long did you experience your chemical dump after the fact?

You said at one point you picked up some extra tools when you went out the second time. What kind of tools? Feel free to PM if you’d rather not post.

Again I am very glad things turned out with everybody safe… My thoughts and prayers.

Glad she is ok.

I do agree with what the other guys said, why did you have them in the car?

But on the other hand, I can understand the state you were in..

I know all too well about what happens when your family is threatened, its a whole different feeling where you don't give a fuck what happens to you and you just want to deal with the people doing it. I've been in a situation where my sister let some guys without a license drive her car and my dad caught them, ended up that they threatened him and my mum called me to go down to where they were, which is one of the dodgy areas in town. I was armed, which i'm usually not and went down there, my dad was going back to the car with my sister and followed by one of these idiots who looked like he was about to do something drastic. As soon as I got out of the car he pulled something out from behind his back, which I think was a knife.

Then his ex-gf (who I knew) ended up coming there at just the right time and taking him inside, apparently he was more worried about me than I was of him so called her to stop me, atleast thats what she told me later on.

Thats just the short story of it. But one thing I want to say is, watch out because you may get yourself into trouble in that mindset, I know this because that day, the state I was in if this guy went for my dad or sister I would have went all out and not given a fuck what happened, on top of my already agitated state. Him being that close to them and his intent I was already pretty much in that state anyway.

Bro I was shocked into silence after reading this just didnt know what to say. As everyone has said your GF was alittle shaken buts shes fine. I wish there was more people in this world like the shop keeper who went out his way to help.

This reminds me an incident that happened years and years ago. I remember in my teens I grew up in a very rough area just outside Middlesbrough as you know. One night whilst my mom was cooking in the kitchen. A group of chavs opened fire with an air rifle at the kitchen window. My mom heard the impact of the pellets on the window. Mom looked out of the window and she saw one of the youths pointing the air rifle at her. She screamed the youths ran off dad was well pissed we both ran outside by that time the youths had legged it across the estate. We jumped into our car and attempted to give chase i was shitting myself scared as hell. Fuck theres four of them what do we do. Dad was determined to track them down. My dad is one of the most fearless men on this on this planet no shit.

We had a family business at the time and one of the customers who happened to be out with a dog told us he recognised the youths and knew who they were. We phoned the police and he assisted in providing evidence to take all four youths to court.
We emotionally bonded with the guy really well and he became a close friend of the family for life.

Its intense moments like this that really bring people together.

Sharif.

Glad you are all ok!!

Life is precious, you have always known this, but tonight, well... that kind of highlights things doesn't it?

I think the fact that she didn't take the little punk seriously definitely stole his resolve. Anyone pulling a knife in a situation like that is likely a coward as far as I'm concerned, and I'd say he didn't have the guts/will to REALLY do anything if he was still talking but hey...he could just be a nutter who would do it too...right there in the store.

I know everyone's asking why you took them with you when you went out. On the one hand it seems dangerous to bring them but you probably needed your girl to point the guy out too right? You wouldn't want to unleash another world of hell on the wrong person. I second Blakops in looking for any video available, and second Russ' view that there maybe be a greater reason you didn't find them. Your girl and child need you and you can't be there for them from a jail cell.

Glad you also have an allie in this. Neighborhoods I think, would have a bit lower tolerance for 'little rats' like this if the people they routinely victimize are friends and neighbors of eachother and have some sense of 'community.' It's not that little rats like this are necessarily the big issues we face in our neighborhoods, but the little rats tend to grow up into big ones...

Thanks guys.

She's fine. I mean, the guy (well, kid) didn't threaten her - he just decided that a knife would help him in seducing her. () Maybe that's how his mum and dad met. "Hey, bitch. I like you. Marry me or I'll shiv you" He was still being jokey, so she just fucked him off.

Why I took them in the car... full marks go to DMB. I had to fully ID them. It's just the 3 of us, so nobody to leave our son with. I couldn't afford to get the wrong guys for what I was going to do. I still didn't have full descriptions yet. She had to come with. I would have parked up and locked them in the car. She had a mobile phone.

What I was going to do....

Restrain the main offender and call the police.

None were taller than me, she said. Two of them had massive affros like this: but without the cool shades. Seriously. Twins too she said. That's a lot of hair to be able to grab, an awesome way to control people as I'm sure you all know. The one with the knife was a few inches smaller than me. They're younger than me, less life experienced than me, haven't learned to overcome fear and adrenaline like me, and of course, aren't trained....no.... CONDITIONED for close quarter combat like me.

So would have I engaged all three?

Abso-fackin-lutely

Supra-states, guys, supra-states! You know how this game works!

The game plan wasn't to bomb-burst out of the car. There was no emotions running wild, no lack of control on my part. I would have tried to engage with distractive dialog.... much like a mugger I guess. "Excuse me mate? Have you got the time?" and then do what I had to. I would have just played it by ear. In my attempt to restrain them, I may have had to use quite a high level of force. If only to defend my self from the other two after I restrained the main guy with the knife (the only guy I really wanted).

As for the adrenaline and stuff... I don't really know. I try not to pay attention to it when it hits. When I was running for the silver car initially and after the dreaded phone call, it was hitting hard. But I think the run actually would have burned it out a little bit. Then after that.... I don't know. If i start noticing that my hands are shaky or whatever, it'll just get worse. Being mission-oriented is what stops us being overwhelmed by the symptoms of adrenaline.
The only other time I noticed it after that was on the way back from talking to the Afghan. I felt a pain in my chest which I knew was the Cortisol (stress hormone). It's corrosive and literally burns the lining of the internal organs. The only way to get it out is through exercise, so I'm off to the gym after I write this.

To be honest guys, i've been here before. Adrenaline and fear are like friends who you don't really like. They are annoying, but they do serve a purpose to you tolerate them as much as you can

It's over for us now. She wasn't so affected by it, and I gave her the chance to talk and de-brief which is of course quite therapeutic and healing in itself. And me? I've become the master of letting things go in recent years. If I was still clinging on to every bad experience I've had, I'd be a frikkin mental home

Blackops, I didn't call the police. If you don't have them in your hands, restrained, there's no point. They're gone. This is London mate

Thanks again guys and girls

Quote :

Blackops, I didn't call the police. If you don't have them in your hands, restrained, there's no point. They're gone. This is London mate

too true

I was hoping (based on the title) this was goin to be a description of you drilling with your girlfriend, gutted it's something like this

what do you do? what can you do?

the fact is its really really unlikely he had any plans on doing anything with the knife,

but that he drew it on her to try and force her to pay attention to him

words fail me

is this what people get in return for good citizenship? to live in the capital of one of the richest most developed countries on earth, the banking capital of the world and expect to live with little scumbags pulling knives on our loved ones?

with the reservation "well if I havent caught them there is no point calling the police"- mate, call the police, just in case, not for yourself, maybe for the next person

and do it now, while its fresh

I pick up some new items to take with me. Nothing illegal. But potentially helpful tools none the less.

okay sharif i dont like you a lot,
but i like to advice your girlfrind to carry a Fenix pd 30
totally legal, very very effective.
i used mine a few days ago, the guy couldnt see anything, i diddnt even have to hurt him.

really cool self defence weapon!

i bought one for my girl too.

Got to this a little late, but I'm very glad all of you got through that safely.

chulodog wrote:

carry a Fenix pd 30
totally legal, very very effective.
i used mine a few days ago, the guy couldnt see anything, i diddnt even have to hurt him.

really cool self defence weapon!

i bought one for my girl too.

Alot to be said for lights of this nature, super bright, hard/beefy, usually have some shape to the hood should you use it as an impact weapon... I mean tool

When you blast someones eyes with these, there is some good temp blindness, especially when their eyes are adjusted to darkness. Not that familiar with the Fenix, but it looks alot like a Surefire.

The only thing I don't like about them, is that they eat batteries and they always seam to use a special battery instead of something common like AA.

yeah, you can easally flash his eyes with a finex pd30 and follow up with a hit like a pocket stick. its made for this.

but in my case only the stroboscope turbo light was enough to scary the guy. if i combine the flashlight with a knife or gun, it would be lethal.

very nice tool

Did reconsider reporting to the police. But didn't in the end. Reason 1) no time. We had plans. Going to the police station, waiting in the line (usually very long lines of people) to file a report isn't a particularly speedy process. I didn't want to dedicate any more time to these punks. Reason 2) It really is almost entirely pointless. Truly. I called 999 once because a girl was being attacked in the ally way next to where I used to live. They told me to contact my local police station. It's to explain to people who don't live here that the police are so overstretched that anything less than "Oh fuck, he's stabbing me and I'm about to bleed to death" gets little or no attention. This doesn't come from my opinion based on reading newspapers and stuff, I've had experience as somebody in need who didn't get it and also from training with police officers who don't hide the shortcomings of our police service (I chose not to call it police 'force'). I've even done jury duty and seen how it all works from that angle too. I'm almost tempted to say it's all bollocks... but I won't go that far. No system is perfect.

The truth is this, what happened to my girlfriend is nothing. Truly nothing. It's not even a huge deal to us, let alone to the cops.

Blackops made a good point in a PM about having a crime number should we see them again. But chances are, we wont. London is frikkin massive and she doesn't think they live round here.

Re the flash light. Got a Surefire Defender E2De. Going to the states soon, will probably get something similar for her.

Still think you should call the Police mate, shocking state of police response time not withstanding. My very good friend, Ian's son is disabled & was assaulted by a gang of eight, 10 calls to Police during the assault, finishing with them turning up at his house 2 weeks later to take a statement. His brother had fucked them all up individually in the meantime. Ian was so infuriated he went public in the local paper when the D&C police report for that year was released a few weeks later, lauding their proffessionalism & response time. Got a public apology from the Chief Of Police. Like it matters a toss!

Irrespective that we may agree, the Police's job these days seems to be to catalogue incidents post event rather than protect & serve. You should report this. This kid could be out on license or a probation order. Your report could guarantee him prison time for previous offences as well as this one. Your actions now, the few hours it may take to get it logged, could save some poor individual later.

If someone doesnt take responsibility for these things, who will? We all lament what feels like the failure of law and order but these things are dependent on our actions as much as any law enforcement agency.

I've made the call when I have had to, in the past & fuck anyone who says that I am a grass. Keeping quiet serves no-one any good except these fucking dregs. They rely on you to do nothing.

Blakops wrote:

Still think you should call the Police mate, shocking state of police response time not withstanding. My very good friend, Ian's son is disabled & was assaulted by a gang of eight, 10 calls to Police during the assault, finishing with them turning up at his house 2 weeks later to take a statement. His brother had fucked them all up individually in the meantime. Ian was so infuriated he went public in the local paper when the D&C police report for that year was released a few weeks later, lauding their proffessionalism & response time. Got a public apology from the Chief Of Police. Like it matters a toss!

Irrespective that we may agree, the Police's job these days seems to be to catalogue incidents post event rather than protect & serve. You should report this. This kid could be out on license or a probation order. Your report could guarantee him prison time for previous offences as well as this one. Your actions now, the few hours it may take to get it logged, could save some poor individual later.

If someone doesnt take responsibility for these things, who will? We all lament what feels like the failure of law and order but these things are dependent on our actions as much as any law enforcement agency.

I've made the call when I have had to, in the past & fuck anyone who says that I am a grass. Keeping quiet serves no-one any good except these fucking dregs. They rely on you to do nothing.

Hmmm. Me thinks there is some real wisdom in that there post, my good man.

But in response to Ian's situation..... WHAT THE FUCKING FUCK??

None of us were happy, Chris who was assaulted suffers from varying issues including exrtremely frail heart muscle, getting hit could kill him. His brother put serious poundage on the guys who laid hands on. Nice guy, always very quiet, small, power lifter. Only hits people once. All he needs. Just got off from a court case for hitting some guy who went for him & knocked him out. That has made him extrememly cautious & so last week out with his best mate, best mate gets blindsided & nose broke. Lewis cant retaliate, cant risk court again. Feels really bad about it. Richard was trying to avoid this cunt all night & not catch his eye & wham. What doing the right thing gets you.

That is the second person I know really well assaulted in the last fortnight. First person, laurence, one of my many cousin's separated husbands is an alcoholic. Was helping her decorate her new flat & left. Kicked to shit outside when he left & the guy was claiming self defense. Laughable if you knew Laurence. I have not seen such bad injuries in a long time. Brain bleed, largest cut & contusion on his head where he was stamped on & indivdual finger marks on his throat still visible 2 weels later & bad black eyes. The police are dropping charges against Laurence but not raising them against the untouched other guy.

Anyway, I meant what I said in the last post. We are all responsible for the society we bring our children up in.

& while I'm talking, can I make up a list of things you can get me in the states? I know Rus would help but I'm to tight to pay the postage.

I have a Fenix L1P - nice, simple, design.
I will say though, that whatever you carry still has to be backed up with all the rest of the skill set. A tool is not an end in itself.

maija wrote:

whatever you carry still has to be backed up with all the rest of the skill set. A tool is not an end in itself.

Absolutely... a tool is only an extension of the body. If your body mechanics suck... so does your tool.


You are all making the law sound very useless in the UK. Is it really that bad, where being a invisible vigilante is the only way to go?

No. People have to make an effort to assist the police. But have their roles changed? Yes. They are still a visual detterent outside niteclubs at kicking out time, but they are not a "presence" on the street as often.

Lots of paperwork for each case as well, keeping them in a nice warm station, fileing & filling in forms for Govt statistics & perpetrators legal rights. All paperwork to the CPS to decide whether to prosecute. They have lost discretionary powers.

The situation has been going down hill since the 50's, due to various Govt failures.

That doesnt change the fact that nothing alters without action.

The various media portray a situation as being true & citizen belief and apathy make it true.

Quote :

Funny huh?

i run you over like a bulldozer! stupid fuck,

what my problem is russ?

that a total noob is getting positive attention on his stupid movements, im wondering what kind of forum this is? for total beginners??
wondering how you guys train...

no this forum i will leave myself.

and sharif, if you think im funny , just take a visit if you come to holland.

and then film it for you tube!

as promo

user banned

Richard Grannon wrote:

Quote :

Funny huh?

i run you over like a bulldozer! stupid fuck,

what my problem is russ?

that a total noob is getting positive attention on his stupid movements, im wondering what kind of forum this is? for total beginners??
wondering how you guys train...

no this forum i will leave myself.

and sharif, if you think im funny , just take a visit if you come to holland.

and then film it for you tube!

as promo

user banned

lol, I completely missed that, quick work there Richie

Richie Grannon, Ninja Admin!

Just havin fun mate I do have a real post to contribute here in a sec... honest !

Here's something that crossed my mind when thinking about Sharif going after those three.

I'm googling for the news story as I type.

ok here's the story. The long and short is that he and fellow employees were able to restrain this guy who'd stolen from their store until the cops arrived. The problem is that they didn't catch him in the act, but rather it was on the CCTV of the store and they found him down the block. Apparently this constitutes unlawful confinement or kidnapping etc. I know the cases are different, and this is Canada (I think we're still a commonwealth?) but I just don't want to see you arrested too Sharif.

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Toronto+store+owner+break+assault+confinement+charges/2176664/story.html

It seems that to have any lawful right to restrain someone (unless you're the police) that it must be done in the moment the 'offense' is committed. That'd mean the little bugger with the knife who harassed your girl would have to make a move at you for you to have the right to pummel him for his earlier actions.

I could be totally on the wrong track here too. Are the laws differently defined on this subject in the UK? We need a lawyer to start posting here.... lol.

I have to say I second Blakops' post. I'm sure the paperwork of filing a report is a bit of a farce but it would be better than nothing. Can you make a report by phone instead of standing in line? I agree wholeheartedly with what Blakops said, and these little buggers flourish when people do nothing. Appathy is the enemy, indeed it's how we've got to this point in society.

Be Well Sharif

Blackops... speechless over your friends' F'd up situation. Some family friends had a similar thing where their son with learning difficulties was essentially tortured by his 'flatmates'. Humans make me sick sometimes

Re: the getting you stuff from America... join the queue! (sp?). Everytime we go a million people want stuff!

Richie...



DMB

You make a good point. But I don't think the law is so rigid as to say that if you don't jump on them straight away, you have to let them go even if you see them again. I did jury service on a case where a burglar was seen leaving this couple's house. They saw him the next morning and after a dramatic car chase, they caught him at the same time the police came (they called the police while perusing in the car)

We were driving past the area of the store again last night and told the GF to keep her eyes peeled. She asked what I would do if she did spot them... and I didn't really know what to say to be honest. I would have probably just gone along with my previous idea of getting her to call the police while I made sure they couldn't escape (well, at least the main guy anyway)