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Serge

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PostSubject: Re: Knife DVDs   Sat Feb 28, 2009 4:37 pm

Here's a silent and crude example of a knife attack :

http://videos.dhnet.be/video/iLyROoafJAe-.html

Now, effectively, let's imagine both ways to handle it. Control & restraint, or initiate a ferocious aggression against the armed man.

Well, frankly, ... it is not even a question. Is it ?
It would be impossible to control the limb. Pure and simple.
The rest is just plain theory, I am afraid.

Nice to read you again, Mr. Grannon.
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Richard Grannon
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PostSubject: Re: Knife DVDs   Sat Feb 28, 2009 6:57 pm

Nice one Serge, good clip (looks like the "didnt even realise I was getting stabbed until afterwards" effect commonly reported in knife attacks)

nice to have you back on here
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Richard Grannon
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PostSubject: Re: Knife DVDs   Sat Feb 28, 2009 8:12 pm

Mulling these questions over as I tidy the house, bear with me jumping on and posting in a bit of a fractured way (breaks up the monotony of putting things in bags)-

Maija

I suppose to an extent the techniques described in the psychology of violence and supra states course if modified would help... sometimes its just a decision made from that calm certain place inside that says "if it happens this will be my response" sort of a deep resolve to do a thing or react a certain way

RichB

regarding not taking any situation lightly and always going nuclear whether its one person or three, armed or unarmed: there is logic to this point of view, we certainly dont want to take anything lightly or with complacency but how practical is it? How legal is it? In the eyes of the law this is not an acceptable measuring stick for use of force, certainly.

Is it even good self protection? I dont think so. Fights/Social Violence are social events, psychological happenings, a dynamic violent confrontation expressed via the medium of physical confrontation - Im sure we can all dream up situations where over responding could be worse that under responding

Ive never walked away from a fight thinking I wish I had hit him more/harder (ok whilst Im still drunk and excited) but I have definitely walked away thinking I wish I hadnt hit him so much so hard

Weirdly in just the last 6 months Ive found myself getting into scraps again, and me- a grown up!, and its changed my perspective on a lot of things and one of them is that we should be training with more FLEXIBILITY in our application of use of force- from going nuclear right the way down to just pushing someone back into their seat and saying "NO! bad dog!"
this is one thing that the streetfightsecrets line of training doesnt really allow you to do, not to the extent I would like anyway

Some people are just weird, needy spackers who want to be hit- they deserve to be hit and often they wont give you a choice, but they dont deserve to be nose bitten off, mauled to peices and stamped on... Im sure you know what I mean RIchB, but where does that leave us in training?

There are a few things come out of these more recent scraps, Ill start a new thread when Im done tidying.

Procastination over. Back to the bags.... if only I could access a "house tidying" state lol!
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maija
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PostSubject: Re: Knife DVDs   Sat Feb 28, 2009 9:01 pm

Thanks Richie,
Actually the first DVD I have bought from you is the 'Violent Intent' one, to try to understand this more.
I'm not naturally an angry person and can probably count on one hand the times when I've even APPROACHED a state of rage. Generally I seem to have an inbuilt 'watcher' that looks down when anything gets too 'dramatic', notices how bizarre it all is and then there is no way I can take myself seriously any more. So no, the idea of screaming as I thrash on a heavy bag is just not going to happen, it'd just too ridiculous a picture to imagine!
Now .... whilst I think this is generally a fabulous way to live my life - I think I have a good sense of humour and feel pretty well adjusted and all that, what happens if/when I have to either call on this anger perhaps as a way to transmute fear into something more useful, or perhaps when/if I do lose my rag and have not had any practice dealing with the power of this emotion?
Now stone cold focus I can do, I know this from training and from real life situations I've been in that have been physically dangerous and have required a clear mind to get out of. But is it enough?
I suspect that having someone yelling abuse or threats feels very different from pure physical danger, and it's not something I get to experience very often (yipee!).
I like the idea of training explosive power and the idea of accessing that deep resolve you speak of - the 'ON' switch as it were.
The closest I have come to that moment of decision for real was when my the fiance's Akita/pitbull/mutt decided to challenge my new, higher than his, position in the pack. I distinctly remember thinking 'Well it's now or never - I must win this". Very funny really! ....and yes, I did win with only a few teeth marks round my wrist.

Looking forward to hearing your insights from your recent adventures - How to do the appropriate thing at the appropriate time seems to be the eternal question ......

PS: Thich Nhat Hanh asked a question about cleaning, he asked - Do you do the dishes to get them clean, or do you do the dishes to do the dishes ...? ( Insert sound effect of distant gong....)
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PostSubject: Re: Knife DVDs   Sat Feb 28, 2009 11:45 pm

... as I clean the dishes I know with the whole of my being that I am cleaning the dishes...





Quote :
I think I have a good sense of humour and feel pretty well adjusted and all that, what happens if/when I have to either call on this anger perhaps as a way to transmute fear into something more useful, or perhaps when/if I do lose my rag and have not had any practice dealing with the power of this emotion?
Now stone cold focus I can do, I know this from training and from real life situations I've been in that have been physically dangerous and have required a clear mind to get out of. But is it enough?

what a question! I can only answer with where Im up to now: I dont know
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RichardB



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PostSubject: Re: Knife DVDs   Mon Mar 02, 2009 9:11 pm

More scraps the last six months you say? Six months is about as long as the financial crisis has been announced on the news. Maybe more people are high on their nerves and more aggressive? It's one possible explanation on the large scale level. (also check your back in a mirror for a "kick me" note, you never know.)

When it comes to universal nuclear fighting, you're right. Too much radioactive fallout. The social and legal repercissions are problematic. Although I suppose I do lean toward the "better hit too hard than not enough" thinking. Proportional force seems too much like dueling. But flexibility in the use of force is necessary in the end. Some times all you need is to demonstrate that you are capable of fighting. Other times all you need is going for a submission and a few words. Doesen't really require law or medical involvement and leaves mostly bruised egoes. Then, across a certain line there are the serious but not life threatening inuries, and finally the dead or lucky to be alive category. The results across the line are what's likely to make the most ripples in the pond. It's more conceptual than all tangible but in all likelyhood the nuclear attack was not what my scatterbrained self was rummaging around for through the course of the thread. There's something else.

If we go back to the topic of knife defense. It's not that knife defense should be actually switched for unarmed fighting. It's more like a heavily simplified synergistic mess in bringing together everything. Knife defense that is true to the realities of unarmed fighting. Unarmed fighting that is true to the realities of knife defense. Keeping the best and most relevant points of both of them as far as possible. Basically putting into actual practice the default assumption everyone is talking about that the the enemy is armed until proven otherwise. Also trying to eliminate as much mental work as possible and saving time. Instead of trying to figure out what's going on. Establishing whether or not it's going to degenerate to violence (de-escalation going nowhere?) and having a default offense based approach.

It seems to make sense anyway.
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Richard Grannon
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PostSubject: Re: Knife DVDs   Mon Mar 02, 2009 11:44 pm

Quote :
More scraps the last six months you say? Six months is about as long as the financial crisis has been announced on the news. Maybe more people are high on their nerves and more aggressive? It's one possible explanation on the large scale level.

possibly a factor plus my own personal problems - I dont believe in coincidences, even though I was totally justified in both situations, in my own subjective opinion


Quote :
It's not that knife defense should be actually switched for unarmed fighting. It's more like a heavily simplified synergistic mess in bringing together everything. Knife defense that is true to the realities of unarmed fighting. Unarmed fighting that is true to the realities of knife defense. Keeping the best and most relevant points of both of them as far as possible. Basically putting into actual practice the default assumption everyone is talking about that the the enemy is armed until proven otherwise.

Yeah thats what I got from what you said, NOT that you just pretend the knife isnt there - I particularly like this word combo say better man RB:

Knife defense that is true to the realities of unarmed fighting. Unarmed fighting that is true to the realities of knife defense
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maija
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PostSubject: Re: Knife DVDs   Wed Mar 04, 2009 3:25 am

RichardB said: ".... Also trying to eliminate as much mental work as possible and saving time...."

I have noticed in training that where there is asymmetry - unarmed vs knife, short vs long etc, there is always less time. The more you can see what's coming before it happens the better, especially if you can get them to show their hand early (pun intended!) i.e. at the "I guess this is not going to de-escalate" moment... though of course I'm sure that would be a luxury and obviously does not detract from the default offense already mentioned .....
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paulb

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PostSubject: Re: Knife DVDs   Fri Mar 06, 2009 6:27 pm

Hi Guys

this is my first post since the forum was resurected. bounce I've read this thread with a fair bit of interest. In the City of Glasgow there has been for years a fascination with blades. We have an incredible yearly toll of deaths and I've seen at first hand some really horrible injuries, I don't mean injuries that had just happened I'm taking about years later ,those wounds inflicted still look awful. Slashings are always in vogue in Glasgow. The celotaping of a penny between 2 or 3 razor blades will give the surgeon more difficulty in stiching the wound ,thereby your victim now has a far more pronounced second prize to carry through life with him. Evolution never ceases and this carries over to knife crime as well.
I was out with a groups of friends whom are all fathers 40-45 years old, they had brought their sons 15-20 years, not one of us (14 in total) hadn't been stabbed or slashed. What really interested me was that when I asked each about his encounter in realtion to the stabbing or slashing, no one had said, "....well of course I trapped the offending limb and applied a serious of knockout blah blah blah! Each person was fighting like fuck, the tool used against them made no difference as they were, in that moment too busy GETTING ON WITH IT!!!

It doesn't honestly surprise me that Richie gets fucked off from time to time, when clearly there are people on this forum that want to over analys his DVD's, yet, will learn nothing for themselves as they are so clearly afraid of other people never mind balls to the wall violence that they only feel safe is when hiding behind their computer typing (i mean sniping) a load of shit about a situation that they can ONLY IMAGINE. GET ON WITH IT FFS!
I could say an awful lot more but I'm leaving it at that! Basketball
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PostSubject: Re: Knife DVDs   Sun Mar 08, 2009 10:01 pm

Mr Barton

good to see you back on here mate- and in fine form, good post
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