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 How do you be detached while under verbal attack???

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technics1210

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PostSubject: How do you be detached while under verbal attack???   Thu Jun 26, 2008 6:39 pm

Richard mentioned about being detached while a verbal attack is being directed towards you. When i'm verbally attacked about certain things my emotions go haywire, inside i freak out! How do i become and stay detached from verbal attack??????
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VictorS

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PostSubject: Re: How do you be detached while under verbal attack???   Thu Jun 26, 2008 7:00 pm

technics1210 wrote:
Richard mentioned about being detached while a verbal attack is being directed towards you. When i'm verbally attacked about certain things my emotions go haywire, inside i freak out! How do i become and stay detached from verbal attack??????

In simple terms - don't take it personally. What I call button pushers, will yell and say all kinds of things until they get to you - when you react, you've given them the power.
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RichardB



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PostSubject: Re: How do you be detached while under verbal attack???   Thu Jun 26, 2008 7:32 pm

It seems to be something you need to practice to keep up as I'm no longer as able to do this as before, but by using some breating and self-observation techniques I found in this goofy new age book in a second-hand bookstore; Inner Adventures by a Colin. P. Sisson. I managed to genuinely feel as calm and good as when just relaxing in a bed while some guy at a place I used to work was drunk and drugged while shouting and screaming insults at me in front of another co worker trying to convey to him what a total ass he thought I was.

It was downright eerie. Strangely I also felt in the distance what I'd normally be feeling in such a scenario, wanting to beat the guy to a pulp, but I wasn't associating into it. Not really dissociating either as I was observing the stuff going on in my mind, just choosing to not go into it. In terms of NLP it's a pretty strong 3rd position I'd think. Anyway the coolness and clarity right then and there probably saved me from doing something I'd lose my job over.

The same thing also worked in embarrasing situations where I'd normally want to just sink down into a hole in the ground. where I would be observing that going on in my mind, but without my participation in it, and just refrain from passing any kind of judgement on the situation. So on the level of what I was feeling (as in the same way you most likely feel your emotion right now or any time) everything felt just perfect.

That's just my experience though. It probably makes no sense and it's kind of hard to explain.
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technics1210

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PostSubject: Re: How do you be detached while under verbal attack???   Thu Jun 26, 2008 8:20 pm

RichardB wrote:
It seems to be something you need to practice to keep up as I'm no longer as able to do this as before, but by using some breating and self-observation techniques I found in this goofy new age book in a second-hand bookstore; Inner Adventures by a Colin. P. Sisson. I managed to genuinely feel as calm and good as when just relaxing in a bed while some guy at a place I used to work was drunk and drugged while shouting and screaming insults at me in front of another co worker trying to convey to him what a total ass he thought I was.

It was downright eerie. Strangely I also felt in the distance what I'd normally be feeling in such a scenario, wanting to beat the guy to a pulp, but I wasn't associating into it. Not really dissociating either as I was observing the stuff going on in my mind, just choosing to not go into it. In terms of NLP it's a pretty strong 3rd position I'd think. Anyway the coolness and clarity right then and there probably saved me from doing something I'd lose my job over.

The same thing also worked in embarrasing situations where I'd normally want to just sink down into a hole in the ground. where I would be observing that going on in my mind, but without my participation in it, and just refrain from passing any kind of judgement on the situation. So on the level of what I was feeling (as in the same way you most likely feel your emotion right now or any time) everything felt just perfect.

That's just my experience though. It probably makes no sense and it's kind of hard to explain.

Ok, so at the time this happened where you visualising seeing yourself?
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technics1210

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PostSubject: Re: How do you be detached while under verbal attack???   Thu Jun 26, 2008 8:23 pm

VictorS wrote:
technics1210 wrote:
Richard mentioned about being detached while a verbal attack is being directed towards you. When i'm verbally attacked about certain things my emotions go haywire, inside i freak out! How do i become and stay detached from verbal attack??????

In simple terms - don't take it personally. What I call button pushers, will yell and say all kinds of things until they get to you - when you react, you've given them the power.

Yeah, thing is if i keep ignoring i'm worried that at some point i'm going to explode and act inapropriatly.
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RichardB



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PostSubject: Re: How do you be detached while under verbal attack???   Thu Jun 26, 2008 9:46 pm

technics1210 wrote:
Ok, so at the time this happened where you visualising seeing yourself?

It's hard to place it in NLP terms, at least for me as my understanding of NLP is very superficial at this point. What I can do on the other hand is to jot down the recipie, so to speak, in terms of what I did to get my result. I was just reading the book and doing the exercises, but I think that book is hard to come by. So it's on with the goofy hippie hat then... flower (let's qualify it by one of Murphy's laws: "if it's stupid but it works, it's not stupid.")

Firstly I read and I suppose, internalized a certain way of looking at the world from the book. A sort of new agey spin on basic zen stuff I suspect. Most importantly is to simply refrain from making value judgements on things. It's not good, not bad, it's just there, it just is and that's it. Things only become good or bad because we decide to make those judgements in our minds. It usually is such a strong habit that it happens completely unconsciously and most people don't even know they do it, but it is a thing we do and can stop doing. It reminds me of something I read in a Bruce Lee book, he asked "can you look at a conflict without taking a side?" Just observing dispassionately basically. That, and having a worldview that everything just is what it is, and is therefore perfect. (BTW the best fix for RBSD worrying I ever found was simply accepting the fact that whatever's gonna happen is going to happen and at that point you'll just do what you'll do. Basically just letting go of it mentally because you know you'll just be doing the same thing anyway when or if it actually happens. Gain control by letting go of control...)

Secondly there was a lot of meditation-like breating exercises. Just allowing yourself to breathe freely but without that pause between inhale and exhale. If not inhaling too hard or exhaling too hard there shouldn't be any hyperventilation-like effects, just do what feels right. Might work best to let it happen rather than doing it, if you see the semantic difference. This is probably important because we tend to stop our breath and sort of tense up when bothered, which seems to trigger bad feelings, and gets you into that cycle of fuelling your negative state.
Now mentally while doing that breating what you do basically amounts to stopping that internal dialogue by just listening and observing your own thoughts and feelings. A metaphor they used was that the thoughts were like a Lion walking over a field, and it was better to just let is pass rather than grabbing it by the tail. And usually we do tend to grab hold of and embellish upon whatever thoughts enter our minds, so it seems about right. Anyway I did this observation thing a lot, especially when I found myself in bad states so it may have become automatized as a form of mental defense, because I found myself doing this automatically in a lot of uncomfortable situations.

As for mental experience in case something useful can be extracted from it. In the situation with that co worker above for instance, I'd be sitting there in my chair while he was walking back and forth on the floor ranting and raving. Simply observing, not judging it, and especially observing my mind, and it seemed like I (or the conscious little camera in my mind that I experience everything in the world through) was floating above a sort of churning black lake which was the contents of my mind (I suppose it was dark in there because there are no lamps inside my head). Thoughts, emotions and etc. Watching feelings of anger and indignation float by far below. Then some thoughts about dragging the guy outside and beating him to a pulp with a bat, again far down below. Choosing to just watch those thougths without associating into the experience. Without grabbing the lion by the tail to use that metaphor. Just allowing things to be whichever way they are. While only observing and breating easily and steadily.

The most startling thing was how relaxed I was, it was all distant. Not truly dissociated as the thoughts and feelings were very present, but just being watched and not participated in. A form of benevolent form of dissociation I suppose. I didn't get any experience with combining it with talking back (didn't feel any need to) or anything related to combative state stuff (except maybe the post I made in This thread ), but I should get my lazy ass into doing that stuff again and see what can be achieved.

So there... I'd be surprised if it made any sense but that's basically it. It's really a simple, easy thing to do with no particular complexity so don't let my rambling writing style confuse you.

Just breathe
Refrain from judging it as good or bad.
Just let it be what it is and observe it, and observe your thoughts and feelings, letting them be as they are too.

And repeat after me "you can't own property, maaaaaaan." Wink
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technics1210

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PostSubject: Re: How do you be detached while under verbal attack???   Thu Jun 26, 2008 10:55 pm

RichardB wrote:
technics1210 wrote:
Ok, so at the time this happened where you visualising seeing yourself?

So there... I'd be surprised if it made any sense but that's basically it. It's really a simple, easy thing to do with no particular complexity so don't let my rambling writing style confuse you.

Actually that was a good response, you conveyed your method well. Thanks Smile
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Richard Grannon
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PostSubject: Re: How do you be detached while under verbal attack???   Fri Jun 27, 2008 12:03 pm

conveyed well RichardB... "Zen made accessible"

usually technics, in NLP terms detachment is best acheived by diassociation ie seeing the situation as tho u were a third person
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technics1210

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PostSubject: Re: How do you be detached while under verbal attack???   Fri Jun 27, 2008 1:31 pm

Richard Grannon wrote:
conveyed well RichardB... "Zen made accessible"

usually technics, in NLP terms detachment is best acheived by diassociation ie seeing the situation as tho u were a third person

Ok thanks. I'll have to practise this, i've always found it hard when people come close to my face to stay detached.
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RichardB



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PostSubject: Re: How do you be detached while under verbal attack???   Fri Jun 27, 2008 2:41 pm

Glad to see someone found it useful.

The most extreme situation this detachment has happened in so far was a guy slapping me in the face to provoke a fight. Nowadays such a move would be a definite trigger but back then I didn't consider it serious. anyway he didn't get what he was looking for and he went on to fight someone else instead so it saved me a lot of hassle. In that particular case however I also had a large amount of alcohol onboard, so I don't know how it would have been different if I was sober.

In terms of detachment from your own thougts and emotions, firstly it can be achieved by observing them without joining in, and also observing them not as your thoughts and emotions but the thoughts and emotions. So that you become a third person to them, like Richie says.

It seems most important though to internalize on a deep level that everything is perfect just the way it is, and using the self observation to realize that things are only good or bad because of these value judgements. So you're not so much detaching from the situation as much as learning to view it in a new way. (of course things aren't exactly perfect in every way, but this is where some skillful application of doublethink and perhaps logical levels can be used)

This is also not really something that can be learned intellectually, but comes from simply doing it. Because right now I'm sitting here writing about it, but can't really do it as much as a few years back when I was doing it. So practice makes perfect.

BTW some suggested reading might help more than just this. There's of course the book I mentioned first above.

The power of now, by Eckhardt Tolle might be along these lines. and...

Experiencing quantum psychology, by some guy named Wolinsky. Peter or Stephen maybe. If you search on amazon you should find it.
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Lonewolf333



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PostSubject: Re: How do you be detached while under verbal attack???   Fri Jun 27, 2008 11:41 pm

Insightful posts Richard B. I learned alot from them. You remind me of myself a bit, well the internal stuff that goes on in me anyways.

I learned at one point in my life too there is no right or wrong answers or actions because "right or wrong" are relative terms. Everyone has their own right or wrongs and how many people have died in human history for the "right" things?

To dread things coming, to dwell in the past and to give your enemys head space is just totally useless as well. The only thing that matters is NOW.

If I know I am possibly going to get in a conflict or I have something stressful coming up I dont even think about it too much. I just wait until the moment I have to deal with it, then I deal with it.

Every person who trys to harm you or mess with you in some way in this life should be dealt with like trash on trash day. No emotional attachment, just bring the trash to the curb anyway you can and try not to get garbage juice on your shoes.

Fuck people who say things about you behind your back, NOW or nothing. There should be no vacancy for those people in your head.
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