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 Does speed matter?

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Richard Grannon
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PostSubject: Does speed matter?   Sat Sep 12, 2009 4:27 pm

Does speed matter in a fight? why?
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roadkill

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PostSubject: Re: Does speed matter?   Sun Sep 13, 2009 1:31 am

Yup, because action is always faster than reaction and if you are destined to be reacting vs. acting then you want speed on your side.
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thugsage
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PostSubject: Re: Does speed matter?   Sun Sep 13, 2009 4:05 am

all of my training, mindset, strategy, and whatever else i've left out has been under
the assumption that speed isn't just important--it is the spark that brings about the
success of all the other things:
-whether it's how quickly the mind triggers to action
-or the lack of time lag in exploding your action--such that it barely resembles a reaction
-the emotion and fast twitch muscle fiber like burst of energy that makes
for a an immediate script rewrite for the attacker--turned victim, to include
creating confusion and sending him/her on her heels backpedaling literally and emotionally

one of my early pneumonics, lest i forget myself was the word 'save' inversed to read
'evas'--an EXPLOSION OF VIOLENCE AND SPEED. i imagine emotion/anger, then speed, then
power by way of physics, then sticking--especially as a striker.

i used to devote classes to how fast one could explosively react with speed from the moment
the 'training-partner' tapped the theoretical defender's shoulder, want no significant time to exist before
one gives an answer. from nothing...something. physics and all the rest of it. what if two people were coming at each other, i've assumed the one who comes in faster really fares better. i gathered this from the sports-combat arena. there was an incredible shotokan guy named 'hiro' or something. he sort of seemed to work on that assumption. we're both coming in, i'll accelerate.

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chulodog

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PostSubject: Re: Does speed matter?   Sun Sep 13, 2009 8:54 am

speed is key is say
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PostSubject: Re: Does speed matter?   Sun Sep 13, 2009 11:15 am

Richard Grannon wrote:
Does speed matter in a fight? why?

Speed for speed's sake: good for defence (dodging, running away) and also for charging in (whether with palm strikes or straight blasts or whatever)

Mental speed: As Russ said it's all linked to reaction time. The nervous system in where mind and body meet.

Speed for power: Speed + strength = powerful strikes (I'm sure there's a more scientific answer for that)

Also, explosiveness is essentially super-rapid acceleration. Basically speed that happens quickly Smile Add strength to that mix and you get explosive power.

So yeah, I think speed is important. Can't say I've ever felt the need to isolate it in my training though. My physiology has always been geared towards being fast (ecto/mesomorphic Bruce Lee-ish body type)

But I think for big endomorphic people who have strength but are a bit slow, then speed-development drills could be a good thing.
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Richard Grannon
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PostSubject: Re: Does speed matter?   Sun Sep 13, 2009 11:38 am

so if its an attribute we can all develop like "speed" then we say "yes its important" definitely, without a doubt

but if its one thats trickier or impossible for us to develop like "size" then there is a lot of "ums" "ahs" "It depends" and general wriggling?


... I see...


Razz
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D.M.B.

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PostSubject: Re: Does speed matter?   Sun Sep 13, 2009 12:26 pm

lol Richie's got his 'antagonizer' shoes on Laughing

I think speed matters, and I also think it's contextual.

A person could definitely train for speed and have lightning quick jab,cross, upper-cut skills etc (123) but get completely fazed and unable to use these skills if shit hit the fan in a real 'street' situation.

Being mentally quick is just as important.

What I mean by 'speed is contextual' is that this is all relevant to 'timing' IMHO.

...like timing a well placed head butt... it's not fast compared to a job but timed right can do a lot more damage. What a person chooses to do after the well timed head butt is where speed comes in to play. Finish it up or run? Both must be done fast.

It's like what Russ was saying about the explosion of violence and speed... and like any good explosion it has to be timed right.

Knowing when to pull the trigger, so to speak.... the bullet has the speed but the timing of the shot is equally important.
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PostSubject: Re: Does speed matter?   Sun Sep 13, 2009 2:57 pm

that and technique. those two things more then anything really. speed can generate power and if your tech is good then you'll be able to overcome more
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thugsage
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PostSubject: Re: Does speed matter?   Sun Sep 13, 2009 3:12 pm

darktim99 wrote:
that and technique.

an important nuance...but lets define technique to include things like 'tight-fist and straight wrist' as well as all the coordination of the body aligning for proper power dynamics stuff that it usually conjurs up. i'm having flashbacks of a fast haymaker hurting someone but ultimately breaking my hand and spraining my wrist Razz

a case of 'i won---i lost' lol!

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Danite



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PostSubject: Re: Does speed matter?   Sun Sep 13, 2009 3:28 pm

I would say timing is more important than pure speed, timing and explosive and radical action.Bruce Lee said " I am not fast, I am EARLY!" When one is early or on time then one is being fast.
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PostSubject: Re: Does speed matter?   Sun Sep 13, 2009 7:04 pm

Well,Who here wouldn't want to be faster?

Do you think you would be better if you were slower?Dont think so.

But speed in the context of fighting usually revolves around striking/standing evasion.In a clinch or grappling situation,this all important attribute can be not as important as strength and balance.
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PostSubject: Re: Does speed matter?   Mon Sep 14, 2009 2:58 pm

The temptation to bring in the Theory of Relativity is almost overwhelming ... but I will resist!
I like the "Be Early" concept.

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Richard Grannon
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PostSubject: Re: Does speed matter?   Mon Sep 14, 2009 5:54 pm

Danite wrote:
I would say timing is more important than pure speed, timing and explosive and radical action.Bruce Lee said " I am not fast, I am EARLY!" When one is early or on time then one is being fast.

im sure i've heard Rich Dimitri ask "which is more important perceptual speed or actual speed?" to illustrate the point of being early - is that right mate?

its a diversion from the orignal point of the thread, but an interesting one
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Danite



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PostSubject: Re: Does speed matter?   Tue Sep 15, 2009 3:12 am

Richie, we do a drill called the opportunity drill.We start in slow motion as the attacker begins to move, at the very first hint of movement, the defender starts saying "opportunity" and repeats it untill contact is made by the attacker.We repeat a few times then we do it a bit faster.We then ask the defender at what point he felt he could hit the attacker, we do it again but this time with reaction from the defender.This allows for "occupation" of the mid ground in time between reacting to a full blown attack and going pre-emptive.By hitting from the very start of an aggressive movement we can totaly intercept his attack and disrupt his intention and capacity, thus being early.A person watching this percives it as WOW!!!! "you guys are really fast"!!! But in actuality we are simply acting very early in the game.If you train this a bit it is suprising how adept one becomes at attacking the attacker.it shows how great it is to be early in a fight.I hope that answers the question?
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PostSubject: Re: Does speed matter?   Wed Sep 16, 2009 1:35 pm

Danite wrote:
Richie, we do a drill called the opportunity drill.We start in slow motion as the attacker begins to move, at the very first hint of movement, the defender starts saying "opportunity" and repeats it untill contact is made by the attacker.We repeat a few times then we do it a bit faster.We then ask the defender at what point he felt he could hit the attacker, we do it again but this time with reaction from the defender.This allows for "occupation" of the mid ground in time between reacting to a full blown attack and going pre-emptive.By hitting from the very start of an aggressive movement we can totaly intercept his attack and disrupt his intention and capacity, thus being early.A person watching this percives it as WOW!!!! "you guys are really fast"!!! But in actuality we are simply acting very early in the game.If you train this a bit it is suprising how adept one becomes at attacking the attacker.it shows how great it is to be early in a fight.I hope that answers the question?

that sounds like a wicked drill... any chance of a video clip being youtubed? I think Warren is in charge of doin Rich's clips- or could you film your own clip maybe?

this sounds like a really good way to illustrate the importance of preemptive movement
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PostSubject: talking about speed   Wed Sep 16, 2009 4:05 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBTM6_l-Gdk&feature=related


this guy is really fast IF its not fake
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PostSubject: Re: Does speed matter?   Wed Sep 16, 2009 4:19 pm

Looking at the movements of al the other people in the room, and the shaking of the camera, it looks more real than fake to me. Cameras only shoot so many frames a second though. No doubt that man moves quickly. But I wonder how fast it would look to the naked eye.

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