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Richard Grannon
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PostSubject: Does Size Matter?   Fri Sep 11, 2009 8:02 pm

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Are we talking about sports figthing in a street ie the so called 'street fighting" of consensual ego driven violence, or are we talking about self defence?Since i know nothing of the former but a bit about the later let me say this. A 5ft 4inch woman who cuts somebodies eyeballs with her sharp finger hails causing blood to gush out of the eyesockets, then web strikes him in throat with everything shes got has a good chance of making King Kong back off just enough for her to run.

Or 5 ft 4 inch man is going to try to punch -flail his way out of a confrontation with an experianced street hooligan standing 6ft 2 inches with the calloused soul of crimanal. Does size matter?

I bet the woman with proper self defence training, proper mindset, realistic understandings and training in how violence occurs in reality would have a better chance than the man. So does size matter?

these points were raised by Danite on a separate thread- what do you guys think? given the points he has raised "does size matter"?

I'll go first: pitbull versus chihuahua- no brainer...

however which way you cut it, yes, size (and the implied increase in strength and weight) definitely DO matter...






open can of worms, fling into forum like grenade... run away and take cover lol!
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PostSubject: Re: Does Size Matter?   Fri Sep 11, 2009 8:19 pm

hmmmm....

Size is a factor.... but not the only one. (IMO)

There are people with size who don't have a lot of ability... and vice versa. There are also people with size but not the mentality to use it, and I'm sure we've all seen a little guy who makes up for lack of size with attitude.

I guess, in 'my humble opinion', there are too many variables to say one thing is more important than the other to such an extent as to be a distinct advantage no matter what.

Size, ability, training, mentality, intent, attitude, intelligence, stamina... I'd say these were all factors to an extent... is the whole greater than the sum of it's parts too? afro
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PostSubject: Re: Does Size Matter?   Fri Sep 11, 2009 8:30 pm

I'm with DBM - though I think size does matter, it's not the only factor that does.
Pitbull vs Rottweiler?

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PostSubject: Re: Does Size Matter?   Fri Sep 11, 2009 8:34 pm

Now, now...

the question is specifically "does size matter?"

no wriggling allowed Razz monkey
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PostSubject: Re: Does Size Matter?   Fri Sep 11, 2009 8:52 pm

Richard Grannon wrote:
Now, now...

the question is specifically "does size matter?"

no wriggling allowed Razz monkey

haha *wriggle wriggle*

ok fine!!! Razz

Size matters....




....




to an extent....


cheers
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PostSubject: Re: Does Size Matter?   Fri Sep 11, 2009 8:58 pm

Rottweiler wins
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PostSubject: Re: Does Size Matter?   Fri Sep 11, 2009 11:30 pm

Richie how about pitbull versus cat in the corner?
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PostSubject: Re: Does Size Matter?   Fri Sep 11, 2009 11:38 pm

The following is based on my training experiance only.I have seen women who were well trained handle me far better( and would have effectively done so if it had been for real , in my opinion) though I was far larger than them. On the other hand men my own size or even much bigger younger and more fit, who hadnt yet been trained were leaving themselves wide open to being attacked when we would do scenarios.They would try to out "macho me" as I played the "bad guy" that of course gave me the chance to 'get them" every time.The woman who took the fence and knew what to do, and how to respond well, did far better.

Thats why I ask, are talking about sports combat in the street, or dealing with a criminal assualt in a bar for example.if the former then yes like in a sports fight size weight etc etc matters, but when somebody is standing two feet from you and your hands are a millisecond from his face, all that can go out the window very fast.I dont totaly ignore size, but proper training can allow a much smaller person to negate alot of the advantages of the bigger person.
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PostSubject: Re: Does Size Matter?   Sat Sep 12, 2009 3:04 am

Or...

Cat Vs. big cat, say, a lynx perhaps? (A lion would simply not be fair)

Size matters. Just like anything else. Weight lifting. Big iron weighs more than small iron. There is no way I can say with a straight face that size does not matter.

A friend of mine had a fight with a big guy. He is punching the guy like hell. big guy grabs him by the throat, lifts him up, still punching, hitting the top of his head by now. Then KABOOM slams him on the floor. - Another story I heard from a local club. one of the bouncers is big. Some shit I can't remember what was started, but the shit starter was a little guy. So the bouncer actually grabs the guy and bashes his head against the celiling where they're standing. Laughing

I had a fight with a guy, he wasn't big, but had me by the collar. It was still on a talking stage, but I saw where it was heading so I just went for his head, but he had longer arms than me, so when he flinched all I got was air. But had he been big as well, something like the above cases would probably have happened. I had a guy on my team in the army who lifted one weight in each hand, each weighing as much as me at the time.

Then there is this: (skip to 3:15 or somewhere in the area to get to the action)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=NL&hl=nl&v=cB_vlaP-3uo

But you do have a point. Being another animal. I hate the idea of a duel. No way ever should the enemy have as much as a chance to win if it can be helped. The real issue when having established that size matters is figuring out how to take size out of the equation. At least sufficiently and long enough to provide the opportunity for a one-sided beating to start. I assume you are talking about the shredder in your posts Danite. It might be a good tool for this kind of stuff. I'm fairly certain that if I could get a 7ft 300 pound bodybuilder to fall bad, I'd be able to stomp and kick his head a few times before he could do much about it.

If the big guy follows the characteristically human tendency to be lazy, and has just been cruising on his natural advantages rather than improving on them, and tightening up his weaknesses. Being another animal is, at least initially, fairly simple. The real problem is if he's a cat too, just bigger. There is nothing preventing a big guy from developing every bit as much skill, and in the same things if so inclined, as a smaller guy. And they do not necessarily move any slower. Then we're back to square one.

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PostSubject: Re: Does Size Matter?   Sat Sep 12, 2009 5:23 am

Richard Grannon wrote:

I'll go first: pitbull versus chihuahua- no brainer...

Yes but put a pitbull up against a mastiff twice it's size and the pit bull will annihilate the larger dog. Pit bulls were bred to fight bulls, an animal many times heavier, stronger, and equally as viscous.

Quote :
however which way you cut it, yes, size (and the implied increase in strength and weight) definitely DO matter...

So does agility, speed. Ability to improvise in diverse environments.
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PostSubject: Re: Does Size Matter?   Sat Sep 12, 2009 8:36 am

pittbulls were bred for fighting yes, but small size for the poor man, so he dont have to feed him alot, weight division fighting

yeah he has no change against a bigger dog like a kangal or perro de presa, or tosa inu.

period.

check you tube for pittbull vs kangal.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91RNC-b1T-4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOjMaAndBH4&feature=related
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PostSubject: Re: Does Size Matter?   Sat Sep 12, 2009 8:57 am

Skill can of set weight advantage

I like what RichardB said
Quote :
The real issue when having established that size matters is figuring out how to take size out of the equation.

Me being a smaller guy 5' 10 140lbs, when I first started training I was getting just crushed by the bigger dudes. Now after training for some time I'm starting to have some decent results against guys 50 pounds larger than me. But if the guy is 50lbs heavier and trains as hard as me, I just get owned.
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PostSubject: Re: Does Size Matter?   Sat Sep 12, 2009 3:25 pm

chulodog wrote:
pittbulls were bred for fighting yes, but small size for the poor man, so he dont have to feed him alot, weight division fighting

Pit bulls were for bull baiting, bear bating, and dog fighting.

I would put a pit like this against any other dog, an breed and bet money on it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=feWfqwcWkvM&feature=related

Notice how the Rottweiler in this vid is so slow and too tired to even jump. That's the other thing, big dogs get tired, quick. The agility of pits is paramount, no kangal would be able to jump like that, or has the speed. Big dogs are lumbering, a weakness.

The pit vs. kangal in this vid, the pit is clearly submissive, the fight never even began because the pit is not a fighter:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FGO3-g_Y18


Quote :
yeah he has no change against a bigger dog like a kangal or perro de presa, or tosa inu.

period.

Yet pits were able to immobilize bulls and bears?
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PostSubject: Re: Does Size Matter?   Sat Sep 12, 2009 4:27 pm

gents, if you want to talk dogs start a new thread and stop derailing this one

thankyou cat


Quote :
The real issue when having established that size matters is figuring out how to take size out of the equation. At least sufficiently and long enough to provide the opportunity for a one-sided beating to start. I assume you are talking about the shredder in your posts Danite. It might be a good tool for this kind of stuff. I'm fairly certain that if I could get a 7ft 300 pound bodybuilder to fall bad, I'd be able to stomp and kick his head a few times before he could do much about it.

RichB say bettered.

Again.


Yeah Danite I think I know what your saying and its a totally valid point:

a cat in a corner could scratch the pitbulls face, get him to flinch, it could nimbly and swiftly leap over or under the pitbulls fatnecked head and run through a catflap that a pitbull couldnt get through or climb a tree a pitbull couldnt get up... and from the extension of this analogy we can see that size, in theory can be taken out of the equation with agility, deceipt, explosivity, intelligence, improvisation etc etc


but that would be answering the question : "can you escape a larger attacker?"


and this question was specifically : "does size matter?"

so as RichB says "The real issue when having established that size matters is figuring out how to take size out of the equation." rather than any kind of reality denial -

unless anyone can convince me that size really doesn't matter maybe?

no wiggling! ladies and gents, it doesn't matter whether you like it or not or what you want the answer to be: all things being equal:

does size matter?



ps can we drop animal analogies for a bit please? I know I started it but I think Ive confused the issue

Wink
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PostSubject: Re: Does Size Matter?   Sun Sep 13, 2009 11:42 am

looky look http://streetfightsecrets.darkbb.com/general-f3/does-speed-matter-t1077.htm#7045




size matters, hard for me not to suspect that people making the case for size "not really mattering" are perhaps shorter or of a more slight build who want to write size off to comfort themselves

no escaping physics in this dimension: size matters, get over it pirat


now we just need to ask, how do we deal with it?
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PostSubject: Re: Does Size Matter?   Sun Sep 13, 2009 12:02 pm

Richard Grannon wrote:

no escaping physics in this dimension: size matters, get over it pirat


now we just need to ask, how do we deal with it?

guys, gather 'round...
Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing


i think what this means is...that...when...a...woman...says...that...size doesn't matter,
she's lying

Sad Sad Sad Sad Sad Sad Sad Sad Sad Sad Sad Sad Sad Sad Sad Sad Sad Sad


now then...lets just address the issue of speed. oh deary me, it doesn't look good

affraid affraid affraid affraid affraid affraid affraid affraid affraid affraid affraid affraid


lol!

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Last edited by Russ the Muss on Sun Sep 13, 2009 12:28 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: Does Size Matter?   Sun Sep 13, 2009 12:06 pm

Yeah I think you're right about the personal bias some may have towards this issue.

Avoiding reality, painful lesson this makes for yes? Sorry that was my best Yoda first thing in the morning Laughing

How to deal with it? I think so far the best suggestions were Danite and RichB... things like the shredder:

kick to the nuts
c grip or chop to the throat
gouge the eyes
and he's still got a temple and a chin too right?

fight dirty... why not? Twisted Evil


p.s. Russ just posted as I was writing this.... hahaha I was wondering how long it was gonna take you to drop that joke, you never disappoint lol!
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PostSubject: Re: Does Size Matter?   Sun Sep 13, 2009 3:23 pm

I am not saying size doesnt matter, however with the right kind of training it can often be overcome,or bypassed or negated,therefore its importance is very much a function of how the defender reacts.

Richie, yes you understood my point exactly!
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PostSubject: Re: Does Size Matter?   Sun Sep 13, 2009 3:25 pm

DMB attacking the soft targets is often a good way to begin to bypass strength and power.
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PostSubject: Re: Does Size Matter?   Sun Sep 13, 2009 3:34 pm

Danite wrote:
DMB attacking the soft targets is often a good way to begin to bypass strength and power.


nice point. when i started[in reality], i was so jaded with MA that i attempted to give myself
only two targets--knees and throat, gradually remembering how rewarding it was to catch an
eye, or nail some nads. it started me on this path, and seperated me from my sports fighting.
once it all started to click, i couldn't get far enough away from my dojo past.

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PostSubject: Re: Does Size Matter?   Sun Sep 13, 2009 8:07 pm

Does size matter?

Depends.........If other things being equal(skill level,general physical fitness) then size is a deciding factor.
I am going to give some examples from the sport fighting scene.ie Brock Lesner vs Randy Couture and Brock Lesner vs Frank Mir 1&2.
Lesner vs Couture-Randy was there for much of the fight but when one of those large fists landed,well Randy was no longer in it.
Lesner vs Mir #1.Lesner dominated via pure size and power but lost due to technique applied by Mir.But in Number2 Lesner dominated from start to finish.Size mattered.
Now these were examples from the sporting world and some might believe that 'Real world' encounters are different(And they are but I'll get to that in a moment).
But which one of you fellow forum brothers could in all honestly say you could go toe to toe against Lesner and win.I couldn't do it even in my dreams.

However I could beat Lesner........with a gun,with a knife.etc.
Weapons,the great equaliser.
Imagine a 120 lb 5'8'' guy vs a 290lb 6'5''guy.Hand to hand.I think you know the most likely result.

But put a blade in both there hands.Now what!!!!!!!
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PostSubject: Re: Does Size Matter?   Sun Sep 13, 2009 10:10 pm

Hey Russ, I know what you mean, when I started on the RBSD path about 5 years ago I too was strongly under the influence of various "fighting styles".When I began to see what could be done from the fence, well my eyes just opened up wide, it is quite the revelation isnt it when you start in MA or MMA and you have that "ah ha" moment with RBSD.Regards
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PostSubject: Re: Does Size Matter?   Sun Sep 13, 2009 10:53 pm

BXC8 wrote:
Does size matter?


But which one of you fellow forum brothers could in all honestly say you could go toe to toe against Lesner and win.I couldn't do it even in my dreams.


But put a blade in both there hands.Now what!!!!!!!

Yeah I wouldn't dare either. If someone like that came at me I'd run Razz It's not tough to calculate the odds if i don't run....so... cheers
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PostSubject: Re: Does Size Matter?   Mon Sep 14, 2009 12:16 am

D.M.B. wrote:
BXC8 wrote:
Does size matter?


But which one of you fellow forum brothers could in all honestly say you could go toe to toe against Lesner and win.I couldn't do it even in my dreams.


But put a blade in both there hands.Now what!!!!!!!

Yeah I wouldn't dare either. If someone like that came at me I'd run Razz It's not tough to calculate the odds if i don't run....so... cheers

easy to say from my keyboard, but i'll just say it...if he can not get derailed from a missing eye and torn off ear--then he deserves to finish me off with some bisquits lol!

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PostSubject: Re: Does Size Matter?   Mon Sep 21, 2009 8:40 am

HORRIFIED revellers last night told how they thought a burly rugby player had died after an alleged nightclub brawl with Dundee United star David Goodwillie.
Eighteen-stone hulk Craig Reid, 31, was knocked unconscious after he was punched three or four times in a bust-up, it was claimed last night.



Scare ... club at centre of fight claims
One onlooker said: "He had blood pouring from the back of his head and mouth and was in a bad way.

"He was out cold for four or five minutes - some people thought he was actually dead.

"Eventually he started making groaning sounds as he slowly came round again. The ambulance arrived shortly afterwards and took him to hospital."

Scotland under-21 striker Goodwillie, 20, was arrested after the alleged scrap in the early hours of yesterday outside The Beat nightclub in Bridge of Allan.

The star was charged and released from custody last night.

A Central Police spokesperson said: "A 20-year-old man has been arrested, charged and released on an undertaking to appear at a later date in connection with an alleged incident in Bridge of Allan on Sunday."

Goodwillie - who made his United debut at only 16 - played in Saturday's 1-0 home defeat by Motherwell.

Ex-bouncer Craig, of Bridge of Allan, was released from hospital yesterday after receiving several stitches for his wounds.

Last night the ex-Stirling County and Scotland under-21 prop - who now plays for Falkirk - was recovering at home and refused to comment.


source:the sun.co.uk
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