Knife Defence Video

That was awesome - really enjoyed that!
I'm sure Curran's grunting indicates a nice committed attack, I've found I tend to vocalize too when attacking hard, without realizing it - funny huh?
About being calm, perhaps you are calm because you recognize what is coming at you? When I fought shock knives at The Dog Brothers gathering a few years back, I felt calm and did not get winded, I think because I was used to the movement and that kind of pressure. OTOH, I sparred a guy with sabre a while back, no rules, dueling style, and I was totally exhausted in less than a minute because I didn't understand the way the weapon worked, couldn't read the situation and kept getting nailed by strikes I didn't see.
Anyway, nice clip, thanks for posting.

Hey tacpro, I really appreciate the great contribution you are making here, we are learning alot from your offerings.So I guess as you can see when done at full force and full speed the situation changes totaly.One question, did you think about or try grabbing the arm at some point after having blocked his attack a few times? Or was it really a question of block move and try to hit his face? Were there opportunities in retrospect that you felt you could have grabbed his arm? Good work!

tactpro, you have two disadvantage here, one your partner has a knife, two hes heavyer i think.

but its difficult to see what would happen in real life, because if you defend with a kick or punch, like you do , can change the situation. now, because your punching and kicking half speed on a helmet, he can go on striking with the knife. same problem i found out by training eskrima, because we were hitten on helmets and protection gear.

very nice you put yourself online this way, im gonna buy a camera also

greets

Tacpro… Most excellent…

Attacks are much better with far greater aggression, I really enjoyed the clip. Kinda sucks don’t it when you do this type of training and think… wow that would have sucked, have my shit all cut up and stabbed... LOL.

Training looks good. I only have one suggestion to try. Move forward more, change the mindset from defense against a knife to I’m going to attack you and run your ass over. During the attack don’t neglect using some knees between head shots while your moving forward.

I think the training you’re doing and sharing with us is most valuable. It’s not until we are there getting hacked up or on the floor with someone over us dominating with a knife that we realize, that this not only sucks, but there is no silver bullet. That’s also when we realize there is no shame in running and that using anything and everything in our environment to win is a good thing.

Danite wrote:

One question, did you think about or try grabbing the arm at some point after having blocked his attack a few times? Or was it really a question of block move and try to hit his face? Were there opportunities in retrospect that you felt you could have grabbed his arm? Good work!

I tried to grab or 'catch' his arm my my left arm only. Attempting the Krav-style arm-wrap-trap. [FAIL!]
In retrospect, I think that maybe if I dedicated everything to just jumping on and 'hugging' his arm, I could have got it. He may well land it in my gut as I succesfully grab the arm, but I'd rather have the knife in my and sticking out my gut than having it flail around freely. But then of course, even if I do have the arm he still has his other tools available to him. We'll see when I try that next time.

roadkill wrote:

It’s not until we are there getting hacked up or on the floor with someone over us dominating with a knife that we realize, that this not only sucks, but there is no silver bullet. That’s also when we realize there is no shame in running and that using anything and everything in our environment to win is a good thing.

FO SHO!

That's one thing I've learned from this experiment. But the potential danger with running of course is that if he's faster/fitter than you, You'll have to fight while out of breath and just die tired. That's if he's really that hell-bent on killing you anyway.

I remember responding to a situation we heard on the radio when I was working in security (a VERY brief career, mind you) and me and my partner ran to the scene where the trouble was. I was so out of breath before we even got there that I thought "fuck, if I have to fight now, I'm done". Luckily it was a simple shop lifter arrest.

I've now improved my cardio by about 100 times.

Good stuff tacpro.I think chulo dog brought up a good point about not being to to see how our head shots would actually work because the attacker has a helmet on,is there someway you have can have react mor reslistically.I remember once in training by mistake I shot my left palm out a little too hard and hit my partner in the eye socket quite hard, it stopped his movement righ there ont he spot.maybe have him react more to your shots.Once again excellent work.

reeeeeespect

seconding chulo's point- it's really tricky for us to balance safety and realism, thats the core battle we have when seekin to train and simulate the reality of what might happen- Curran maybe "underesponded" so... take heart, as Danite's example shows, one good palm can end it- when they are attacking they have to be moving their head towards you effectively increasing the power of the shot and skewering their face into your strike

you can experiment with different levels of reaction in the drills, as in real life, some people will take it and shrug it off others will roll around crying

Anyway, good work

ps I see you got the wrestling range problem, its so easy for a knifer to start switching hands at that range and impossible for you to see where its gone

pps boring point, but try setting out markers when videoing (bit of sellotape on the floor or just a bottle of water or tshirt will do)


oh yeah

at 3.22 that "chopping block"? you can drill that into an attacking movement, hack the forearm, the closer you get to the wrist the more likely they are to drop the knife- its a "maybe" move, but how cool would it be if it worked? the main problem solved within seconds of the attack

Hi Richie some times a hard smash on the attackers forearm with our two forearms can take some of strength out of the arm.Sometimes I have been able to stop the prison style attack with such a block and immedialty "bounce" my right arm up into his face while the left hand seeks his arms and hand.Not to be too technical but sometimes a double forearm smash to his forearm can open a few doors.

Tacpro,

that was awesome. some real pressure there.
to piggy back on Richie's point--but not from knife scenario, i had a similar issue with blasting classes
i teach...which was that our volunteer crash test dummies sometimes ran away, sometimes ran in like american football players, and sometimes represented themselves with natural weight--moving back naturally with the forward drive of a blast. i used to shout at them to choose the latter, assuming that not many folks would continue to run their heads into our collective fists [padded up sometimes brings
unnatural responses like invincability].

now i think i've changed my mind--some will run, some will stubborly bulldoze in, and others will be
driven back one's attack until their down. i'm think that as you are only two guys--doing incredible work [i should say now so as not to give the wrong impression], you may want to represent different personalities as Richie was suggesting. some can take a punch, others can't...others are just seeing red and charging in--or on drugs. all matter.

i really enjoyed the clip and honesty for it's strengths and shortcomings. there was a guy--a doorman, that Richie referenced, who passed away not that long ago. he was from new zealand, and part maori, but residing in the UK. you mentioned holding on to the knife hand all out, but perhaps not being aware of other dangers. he'd been in a few real pressure tests and advocated holding on to it--probably doing damage to the arm, but now i'm extrapolating. how i choose to interpret that is that if you find yourself in that situation of getting hold of it, i suppose it may be prudent to not let it go. i relate to hitting the control tower as well [head] and at least have muscle memory going for it [even if not knife experience]. i had a mate that nailed someone with a pistol. the pistol dropped on the street, the potential shooter was too busy thinking about that big fist coming in. it made an impression on me.


Danite,
your excellent point about the forearm smash has a training clip example from our new swedish member who' in the security field, i'll try and find it. i remember how dead my arm felt when several different teachers tried to show me how such a thwack would feel--another impression made.

[DSProtection] https://www.youtube.com/user/esdsworld

Code:

[quote="Richard Grannon"]reeeeeespect  8)

Thank you

Quote :

Curran maybe "underesponded" so... take heart, as Danite's example shows, one good palm can end it- when they are attacking they have to be moving their head towards you effectively increasing the power of the shot and skewering their face into your strike

Curran generally has a low flinch response (which is good for him with regards to things flying at his face - he doesn't go on the back foot too easily)

Quote :

you can experiment with different levels of reaction in the drills, as in real life, some people will take it and shrug it off others will roll around crying

We normally 'act' quite a lot to simulate the attackers response to being attacked. But I think we over did it - as clearly seen in the first vid. So in this one we went totally non-complient.

Quote :

pps boring point, but try setting out markers when videoing (bit of sellotape on the floor or just a bottle of water or tshirt will do)

Good idea.

Quote :

at 3.22 that "chopping block"? you can drill that into an attacking movement, hack the forearm, the closer you get to the wrist the more likely they are to drop the knife- its a "maybe" move, but how cool would it be if it worked? the main problem solved within seconds of the attack

[/quote]

We practice this chopping block to the inside wrist as part of a defence against a static knife threat. You know the classic knife-to-throat/chest/stomach, "gimme your money" type thing. Chop the sucker out the way (which often is an accidental disarm) and then rush in to take out the brain box.

But yeah, I'll take your advice and maybe go in harder with it next time. Go for a proper hacking chop and then blast in with the palms!

Thanks again for your comments and advice. And thanks for having done this your self. As far as i'm concerned we have to put our shit on the line like this if we are to be honest in teaching students life-saving tactics. Know what I mean? Glad we have basically (so far) come to the same conclusions with our experimenting too!

Danite wrote:

Hi Richie some times a hard smash on the attackers forearm with our two forearms can take some of strength out of the arm.Sometimes I have been able to stop the prison style attack with such a block and immedialty "bounce" my right arm up into his face while the left hand seeks his arms and hand.Not to be too technical but sometimes a double forearm smash to his forearm can open a few doors.

Intereshtiinng...

Quote :

you may want to represent different personalities as Richie was suggesting. some can take a punch, others can't...others are just seeing red and charging in--or on drugs. all matter.

Yeah, this is good advice. We'll do that. The different personalities of course not only respond differently, they tend to attack a bit differently too.

Quote :

Danite,
your excellent point about the forearm smash has a training clip example from our new swedish member who' in the security field, i'll try and find it. i remember how dead my arm felt when several different teachers tried to show me how such a thwack would feel--another impression made.

[DSProtection] https://www.youtube.com/user/esdsworld[/quote]

This was a good point. And also a great video from our swedish friend. I left a comment on the vid. Funnily Curran also doesn't feel much pain from forearm strikes. Some people just don't. I discovered this when partnered up with a meaty-armed guy at a control and restrain seminar - he just didn't feel any pressure on those nerves. Me on the other hand? Bloody hell - super sensitive inner-forearms and the bony ridge part too. Smack my arm like that and I drop the knife every time. Blocked a full force stick swing once. Landed on the bony ridge on the forearm there... fucking dropped me to me knees. Turned out to be a hairline fracture too.

Hey Guys, when I said a forearm smash In meant to smash into his forearm with both of yours or one on the forearms and one on the bicep,from their you right hand is perfectly placed to shoot right into his face or under his chin while left has a chance of interfering with another strike.Of course after two or three the attacker begins to change his attack but after one or two I have use well soemtimes sometimes less so, just one option.

TACPRO not ment as a insult just dont want see you get fu*ked. i have seen and had a fair few knife fights and know how much this hurts but train SLOW and use a real blade get the feel for steel on flesh cos its going to happen then MOVE with OR around the blade best of luck in your training

please sign in and post an intro

obvioulsy any post that is a variation of "dat shit will getz u pwned in da str333tz!" is going to get a fairly negative response here, posting something useful and or encouraging would help and saying something more meaningful than "move WITH or AROUND the knife" would be a start

if you've really had "a fair few knife fights" as you say then please do feel free to tell us about them-

do you mean you've been attacked with a knife or that you had a "Knife fight" as in you fought in a caravan circle by firelight for the love of a gypsy lady?

Richard Grannon wrote:

if you've really had "a fair few knife fights" as you say then please do feel free to tell us about them-

do you mean you've been attacked with a knife or that you had a "Knife fight" as in you fought in a caravan circle by firelight for the love of a gypsy lady?

I actually had to wipe a tear away! Caravan circle? Firelight? Love of a gypsy lady? Haha... almost fell off my chair.


1punch,

Thank you for your advice, although I really don't know what you are talking about with "moving with or around" the blade. And maybe this makes me a pansy, but you know what? I don't think i'm gonna be doing that drill with a real knife. But hey, that's just me


Not to sound like a snob, but have you read any of the other posts in this thread? Or on this forum? Do you notice a difference from your posts in the content and way in which they are written?

Sharif Haque (Tacpro) wrote:

Richard Grannon wrote:

if you've really had "a fair few knife fights" as you say then please do feel free to tell us about them-

do you mean you've been attacked with a knife or that you had a "Knife fight" as in you fought in a caravan circle by firelight for the love of a gypsy lady?

I actually had to wipe a tear away! Caravan circle? Firelight? Love of a gypsy lady?

...where's Cher when you need her:

"Gypsies, Tramps, and Thieves
We heard if from the people in the town who called us
Gypsies, Tramps, and Thieves
And at night all the men would come around
And lay their money down...
erm, and knife fight"

RICH sorry mate but i did try join but think i was pissed when i did it and cant remember my old use name KNIFE COMBAT i think training with a live blade is only a good thing as with a wooden one you dont have that fear feeling it all comes from 26 years m.a. guardian angels [london] since 1989 and er ex football thug

well give us an intro at least and then feel free to get stuck in

Good stuff, although I do resent that I got more out of breath resizing my Youtube box than you did inside it!

Random pontifications and ejaculations...

1. A neutral stance (feet parallel) is more efficient for spearing a front kick into the stomach, and for side-steps against a 'train' steaming into you. Took me a while to appreciate the value over the normal fun-sparring stance when I went from kick boxing to WingChun. Fighting is different to sparring. I think WC has something to teach here.

b. This doesn't apply to 2nd (rabbid attack vid) so much, but it's generally very difficult for a training partner to know they're being compliant. I was getting arm bars on strong JKD guys who were adament they couldn't escape - because they respected the technique and unconsciously wanted and believed it would work. In the same week, I couldn't get it on weedy Wing Chun guys somewhere else because they didn't use it, and didn't want it to work. A partner really has to want to get their way and get the better of you for you to know for sure anything's really working. Very difficult psychologically to do with ones own instructor.

iii, Slow JKD type drills are quite dangerous IMO - they get you reacting to false clues/cues and things you wouldn't even be able to see at full speed.

4. One advantage of the gap being closed quickly (ideally by you), is it allows a smaller window of opportunity for the opponent to strike before you hit him. So as opposed to lurking at sparring range trying to differentiate real attacks from feints and getting slashed (or punched) to pieces in the process, when the gap closes quickly, you can almost say 'if it moves block it' (assuming you're inclined to) and hit simultaneously; because if it's a feint then he'll be too late anyway as long as you hit simultaneously. See how Boztepe uses this principle when he crashes in.

Five. I think most can see from this vid, that it'd be safer standing ones ground and just planting a right cross on the attackers chin than trying to catch the knife arm or be fancy; at least that way you MAY only get stabbed once.

Note, I'm talking out my arse having not trained for 10 years, but what the hell...

Quote :

Note, I'm talking out my arse having not trained for 10 years, but what the hell...

You actually made some great points. Thanks for your input.

MORE CLIPS COMING SOON!

Quote :

b. This doesn't apply to 2nd (rabbid attack Very Happy vid) so much, but it's generally very difficult for a training partner to know they're being compliant. I was getting arm bars on strong JKD guys who were adament they couldn't escape - because they respected the technique and unconsciously wanted and believed it would work. In the same week, I couldn't get it on weedy Wing Chun guys somewhere else because they didn't use it, and didn't want it to work. A partner really has to want to get their way and get the better of you for you to know for sure anything's really working. Very difficult psychologically to do with ones own instructor.

excellent point, have had numerous similar experiences to your jkd armbar one- social hypnosis made manifest at a physical level