mmm m m

Ive just been contacted by email by the defence editor from the Sun:

Quote :

We have the undeniable proof now from the MoD, who have confirmed Bob's only military service was with a regular county infantry regiment, for two years between 1982-1984

The defence editor asked and I have denied emphatically any prior awareness - that is if it does turn out to be true and they do indeed have undeniable proof, which at this point even Bobs staunchest defenders have to admit looks likely.

Quote :

Richard,

In which case, we're sorry to be the ones to break it to you. The MoD can confirm all that we say in tomorrow's paper. But by Bob's silence with us yesterday - despite repeated attempts at contacting him - he won't try to deny it any longer.

Tom

I dont really know what to say.





Ive just been contacted by email by the defence editor from the Sun:



Quote:

Quote :

We have the undeniable proof now from the MoD, who have confirmed Bob's only military service was with a regular county infantry regiment, for two years between 1982-1984

The defence editor asked and I have denied emphatically any prior awareness - that is if it does turn out to be true and they do indeed have undeniable proof, which at this point even Bobs staunchest defenders have to admit looks likely. I still cant quite believe it.

Quote:

Quote :

Richard,

In which case, we're sorry to be the ones to break it to you. The MoD can confirm all that we say in tomorrow's paper. But by Bob's silence with us yesterday - despite repeated attempts at contacting him - he won't try to deny it any longer.

Tom

I dont really know what to say.

Given that many of my paying customers post here I thought I should make the information accessible as soon as it presents itself.

I just cant quite believe Bob was only QLR for 2 years- just asked over on the SP forum and apparently the Sun cant run with that story unless they have pretty certain proof otherwise its defamation

Apart from the knee jerk aversion to special forces marketing, I've never doubted that Bob was SAS. It came as quite a susprise. The first day or two with the guests arriving here looking for Bob the 10th of May or so, it just seemed like a troll attack. After some digging it turned out it was in fact partly a troll attack. But Turnbull was only riding the wave. The investigation on Bob had been going on scince at least as early as March. After some reading on the ARRSE forum the possibility that Bob had been lying became very real. I've seen enough of investigations on bullshido to recognize that when they get that intense it is because they're on to something. It wasn't only to get some peace and quiet on here I pushed to send them over to the "positivity forum." I most of all wanted to see for myself that Bob was in fact aware, in the event that it was a smear campaign going on behind his back. And also to see ARRSE confront Bob with their questions right out there in the open. Well it worked!

Bob's reaction really said it all... By the 14th or so I regarded it as confirmed for all practical purposes. (especially after the 17th when his profile showed he had logged on, the thread and forum section disappeared a day later or so, he definitely saw it) As mentioned on the SP forum Even ignoring the evidence, if you pretend that the investigation was just a sick joke. Bob's behavior alone is a total credibility killer. If someone jokingly tells me they've reported "that murder" and I make this face then I crash out through the window and take off at a full run down the street. That should be taken as a hint... The hiding was extremely inconsistant with the proud ex-SAS man who otherwise seemed to have no qualms about putting himself out there talking about it in the media. It's the behavior of a guilty man...

i honestly ddint know any of this till i joined the site. what i know of bob is that :-

A.) he's a fucking good muay thai teacher
B.) i have his books
C.) i have talked to him in the past and he has invited me more then once on survival courses that he runs on the breaken beacons.
D.) he wont be the first to say he knows "the secret killing techniques" passed to the elite forces by the far east masters.
E.) NO ONE would say it to his face because he'd fuck them up.

i believe that you take as you find. IF he has been decent to the guys here and the people who he is contact with in the martial arts community AND they recognise how good he is. then why does any of the other stuff actually matter. yeah his ego will take a punch but he's still the bob that you've talked to and trained with!

If that's the case///sorry for how you've been dragged through this mate,

"Quote:
Richard,

In which case, we're sorry to be the ones to break it to you. The MoD can confirm all that we say in tomorrow's paper. But by Bob's silence with us yesterday - despite repeated attempts at contacting him - he won't try to deny it any longer.

Tom "

...the best way to procede is forward--you've done what is right, given the benefit of the
doubt and not taken part in foolish gossip. i've simply known too many [not exagerating]
people over the years whose credibility was not so much in their reps but in what they could
do. if Bob has made up a glorious past, the only reason so many people would feel it was beyond
reproach was the legitimacy of the fighting tactics themselves. i've known a people that have called
themselves a range of different things [whilst living in DC]: master, ninja, hitman, killer. those
that seemed to represent the skill set tended to not be questioned. one things holds--almost
no one took the mickey out of him until the rumers started--most were seasoned martial artists,
military, police, and every other organization one would think could look with a discerning eye.
so whether he learned his skill set in spec. ops. or the parking area outside a manchester united
game--something was conveying through with enough credibility to not evoke suspicion.

how someone close to him feels when put in that position, can't say really. i don't think it's worth
digging that deeply. people that do this sort of thing aren't as much trying to dupe those around them
as they are trying to make up for some deficiency within themselves. it's not to be taken personally.
my friend i started the boxing club with--had fallout from others about his background claims, but
i knew something people didn't...he was an abused runaway. i didn't defend him, but i didn't turn my
back on him...i just continued on my path. on a path of anything, this is the way things often go.

it is often the case that the student rises above the teacher. i still watch and learn from what Bob has taught, and i really can't say that i wasn't drawn to his claimed background--but i can say i wouldn't have invested as much time if i didn't see something i liked. what he owes to the military is really between Bob those who served.what he owes to those close to him is his yoke/cross. i personally think
you've handled it EXACTLY right in all instances.

-Russ

Quoting: darktim99

A.) he's a fucking good muay thai teacher - I lack wide experience with it but he's certainly better than the ones I've had. To their credit they could fight, they just couldn't teach (across a language barrier BTW).

B.) i have his books - So do I, his DVD's too. Overall there is a lot of good stuff in there.

C.) i have talked to him in the past and he has invited me more then once on survival courses that he runs on the breaken beacons. - I've never met him. As I understand it, the survival courses were his bu$ine$$. I don't know if that can be interpreted as something analogous to an invitation for, say, a family dinner (unless he was talking free of charge, that is).

D.) he wont be the first to say he knows "the secret killing techniques" passed to the elite forces by the far east masters. - That's the impression I have of him as well. His martial arts are purely tangible which is good (for him especially, after this).

E.) NO ONE would say it to his face because he'd fuck them up. - He seems capable enough, though beating the shit out of someone for simply asking questions or telling the truth wold tarnish his character even further.

"When you end up having to force people to behave as if they agreed with you, it's almost certainly because what you're peddling is horseshit." - L. Neil Smith



As far as material goes, as long as character is not a factor, it does not factor in. If Saddam Hussein arose from his grave and had good material for sale, I'd buy it. Wouldn't get chummy with the guy, but I'd listen. Information is information. Character does factor in wherever something rests upon credibility though. Otherwise it is what it is. The quality of teaching and material is, as Russ said, probably the thing that's kept Bob afloat so far. The thing that is genuine.

Regardless, the truth remains that he has in fact made up a story about serving in the SAS. Kept it alive for a long time, and made money off of it. Those are facts. What is guesswork and mind reading is why and what he's been thinking. Russ seems right on the mark. I believe this kind of stuff grows out of insecurity. It is also a common reason for people to catch an interest in martial arts. The material he teaches seems strong enough to stand on it's own in the market and still be competitive. He wouldn't have to resort to making up some special forces fairytale to market some flimsy ninja shit after all. Insecurity seems likely as a big factor at some point (the beginning, I assume).

Bob also said on one of the DVD's that he's a sociopath (and he really reminds me on some level of a sociopath I used to know, whose name to this day is synonymous with lying) that might be a factor in why he seems to have had no problems basing his business on the lie. and it may be a reason he's kept it going so long. He doesen't seem insecure about much on the video material I've seen (the only place I've ever seen the guy though).

I find it difficult to trust someone who can keep a lie going on for so long with a straight face. It seems likely that most people would feel that way. As long as he backs up claims or it is plainly obvious, I have no issues with material he might release, but his credibility and character has taken a significant slam. I wouldn't be taking Bob's word on anything from now on... He has proven to be an excellent liar.

Through my years in the martial arts I've come across ego maniacs, bullies, liars, bigots, nutters and weirdos. Sexism, racism, classism, ignorance and all round idiocy.
As I have no other worlds to compare mine to, I have no idea if the rest of it out there is better or worse.
OTOH I have also made some of my best and most enduring friendships, and interacted with some very fine thinkers and doers through it all, who have shaped my life in a very positive fashion - this forum included. In fact, even the ego maniacs, bullies, liars and bigots ALSO helped me on my path in their own ways .....
I have no real comment about a man I never met and who's material I do not own, but I think Russ put it well, and I agree with RichardB - information is information, and character is character. Take what is worthy and throw out what is not.

Here's the article from the sun.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/campaigns/our_boys/2445041/TVs-SAS-hero-Bob-Spour-is-a-fraud.html

TV’s SAS fraud

By TOM NEWTON DUNN
Defence Editor


A TELLY hardman who carved out a lucrative career as an SAS hero can today be exposed by The Sun as a FAKE.

Bob Spour built up a business empire bragging about his service with the Who Dares Wins regiment. Now the TV regular, radio presenter and magazine columnist even runs a skills school dubbed “SAS Survival”.

But SAS sources have confirmed to us that the 56-year-old never even attempted Special Forces selection — let alone served with the elite unit. In reality, he spent two years as a regular infantry trooper. But in a recent article about his time in the SAS, he boasts: “I got involved in lots of little frolics around the world.”

Spour — who had a starring role in National Geographic series The Perfect Weapon — could now face a criminal inquiry for fraud. Last night, suppliers offered full refunds for his DVD — SAS Fight Secrets Seminar.

Spour claims to have served with G Squadron between 1977 and 1984, seeing action in the Falklands War, Northern Ireland and South America. He traded off the turmoil of real heroes by claiming he suffered trauma over the horrors of the Falklands — which he never saw.

But Spour was less brave when we confronted him yesterday at his home in a well-off Birmingham suburb. He told our man: “I need to speak to a solicitor” — then ducked back inside after spotting our photographer. Spour promised to get back to us, but never did — failing to answer his phone.

Sun Security Advisor and real ex-SAS hero Andy McNab said last night: “To claim to be part of a Regiment that gives their lives to their country makes me sick. “Spour is lying about things he can only dream about.”

thanks for the quotation rich B!

im right tho on those points dont you think? if he's shot him self in the foot then fine its on his head but if he's good with the people here and with those that he has trained with in the past then whats the prob. its just he now looks bit daft.

at the moment i sit on the fence. i will admit it dont look good but there are questions still unanswered. why has it taken so long before anyone has reacted to his claim of being in the reg? why hasnt john mac said anything before??(even when he has been on the s.a.s survival coarse!!)and not least this-if he is lying,why the hell would he then do a tv program knowing poeple would out him as a walt!! i hope he proves us all wrong.i also find it sad that when these things happen,all turn on all!!??ive been following a few sites now about this and is seems even richard has been slagged!!?????i for one think the sooner this goes away the better.

As far as I can tell, this one is over and done. If Bob had anything to say he's had scince at least March to do so. Not only did he refuse to even communicate with ARRSE and respond to the emails but he actually started hiding from the questions. Deleting claims from his websites, etc, etc. Bob logged on about a day before the "are you fake" thread and Bob's Q & A section was deleted on "the positivity forum." He saw it. Before that, he saw his PM's. Before that again he was told of the matter about a week before. And then there was ARRSE attempting to get a reply from him scince at least as early as March.

Now the Sun was at his door. And he's taken all his sites down. Then you can add the fact that the only army service records of Bob are for two years in the QLR. Plus that no one he claims to have served with have heard of him and that actual SAS members lime MacAleese and Grylls denounce him. And all this avoidant behavior from the proud ex-SAS soldier who appeared to have no problems whatsoever being open about it, before it was questioned...

You can either conclude that there is a huge conspiracy aimed at Bob or that he's just been busted in a gigantic lie. The choice is yours. I (and Occam) say he lied.

Why the unwise publicity behavior?

Maybe even Bob didn't know what he was doing. We're talking about humans here. Intrinsically fucked up creatures. It's either cold, callous fraud, or delusion. Personally I believe more in the latter. He doesen't seem like the money-grubbing conman (not effective and aggressive enough) and there was no real logical reason to spawn a lie like that. It was actually pretty fucking stupid. He didn't require it to market some dubious ninja-turtle shit. He actually has good material, which combined with the mindset stuff he could have gone far with. But, who makes up these kinds of stories about themselves? Why? From what best I can tell; deeply insecure people. Incidentally that could acount for the publicity behavior. A man who cared more for being known as the tough SAS soldier than making money off of it. It's one possibility.

And why hasn't Mac spoken up before? Who knows, maybe he didn't notice. Maybe he did, and didn't care, or chose to be nice. Only he knows for sure.

Now... DT:

You're pretty much right about what you're saying. Bob does seem like a genuinely nice guy and also a good Muay Thai instructor. All this moral outrage some have had, and Bob suddenly being some kind of monster is... I actully don't know what the fuck it is. His real problem, and everyone who takes instruction from him now and for a long, long time is simply that he has absolutely shredded his credibility. He's shot himself in the foot bigtime! He gave some anecdotal evidence about eye gouging on a DVD for instance. How the hell do I now know whether he simply made it up or not? Of course, when in doubt like this I go with the latter. And that same thing applies to anything else not already obviously true coming from him. And I expect a lot of people think like that. He should probably stick to teaching Muay Thai and being a nice guy. I doubt there's much of a future for him beyond that, Perhaps he can make a non-SAS adaptation of the survival courses. NLP... He did it to himself though.

You can pretty much count the Bob issue as over and done. Anything further will almost certainly just be fallout from the original detonation.

RichardB...just saw your response...we were typing at the same time as usual.
so here's another angle below///


it's the jerry springer show mate. people act on the false premise that to
have a go at another implies superiority on the part of the accusers. true
or false accusations. the phenomena is larger than the subject. those who
have a real burning question fall into two groups: military; close friends and
family. others just need to move on and not take the issue and themselves
as seriously as they do.

the show is over, the club is closing, the drinks are all finished, the lights have
been turned off...and it's time to go home and get on with it.

the path to anything is often muddied by side shows. they are there to derail.
you make up your mind what happened, then decide if you like the man--if
not, don't train with him...if you do, continue to train with him. the crux of how
i think this decision should be reached is whether or not you feel the skill set
will achieve it's goal--which in short is to fook someone up whilst under attack.

whether or not you decide to take his advice on how to be successful at business
or other unrelated subjects...that's another question, another cubicle from which
to draw many of life's questions. i personally don't have a dellema. my path is
a selfish one. one that carries with it the objective of being well equiped physically
and psychologically for the task at hand. i'd use the devil's money to save the
poor. i'd rob a drug dealer and give money to a methadone clinic [this is a metaphor,
for all you literal lot]. it's not a popular stance, but i believe we all have codes of our
own. objectives of our own.

it behooves us to serve those codes strictly--living up to our values precisely in
accordance with our own natures, never selling ourselves short for this. laws are
important, but at the end of the day--we all know right from wrong, we've all
made terrible mistakes in our lives, and if we ever expect forgiveness, it then
falls on us to be less judgemental and sanctimonious about the subjects of the day.

frankly i'm stunned that this subject is growing like jack's bean stalk by the day.
my teacher once told me that when one is seriously on a path, one has to be like a bee.
a bee lands on a flower and extracts the nector. the nector has been depleted and
the bee continues to another flower. i see this not so much as a call to move away
from one teacher, but as a call to realize the flowers continue to be prolific--each
carrying aspects of a greater objective--ultimately to make honey. learn fighting
from one man [or woman--i started in life being inspired by my mom]; learn morals
from your priest/guru/grandmother/whoever; learn study habits from your OCD
flat mate who constantly makes the honour role. in the end, no one person provides
the answers to all the questions.

for a well rounded education one needs a discerning eye. this is what led me to Richie.
he is constantly looking into what other people are finding in their success stories for
self defense, he's giving them credit for their work...in short, for those now focussing on
Richie, i really can't see it---in affect, it's just the winding down of a feeding frenzy gone
amuck. if people spent half as much of their time training, they'd all be jet li, or bruce lee,
or whoever. i agree with Geoff Thompson in one regard to his philosophy of training, and
i have to say that i haven't invested alot of time following his stuff [save the fence and how
much we all can owe to him putting it back into the forefront of sound training]:
he believes we're all a reservoir of energy, which not utilized for gain, will eventually just
turn on a person. not new age. just true. take the 'god' aspect out of it, forget the chakras
if they don't float your boat. just imagine having alot of energy. either play on the football
team and be a star, or end up being a kid up to mischief.

nothing new here. use your storehouse of energy, be an alchemist and, for example...if you
have a thirst for violence, learn where it has a place--like applying it where it serves society
and not takes from it. i trained a cadet for a while and i said as much to him.
"you'll be fine if you keep the perspective that cops and robbers are just 'fred astaire and ginger
rogers'...both need each other. the cop has applied his propensities in a manner that serves.
some people battle in a court, some get petitions and try to institute new laws that help the poor or
whatever. i personally don't mind the idea of putting my fist dead into someone's eye socket, but
i carry with it a sound set of principles that dictates where this is or is not appropriate. this is
my inner alchemy. and the reason i'm not terribly judgemental with people that have strayed.
my real focus is on those that emotionally and physically scar people.

i did 12 years of security and i ended up being the sort of guard that would stop people mid-act and
just say..."get out of here, put the stuff down, we're all watching you...lets spare ourselves the grief
okay?" not the same response if someone's messing with a family member, or picking on a kid, etc...

diatribe over...off to change nappies now. one of my many hats, and the one that's incidentally the
most demanding. all other decisions are quite easy.

-Russ

Quote :

Personally I believe more in the latter. He doesen't seem like the money-grubbing conman (not effective and aggressive enough) and there was no real logical reason to spawn a lie like that.

In my opinion, its deffo not about money- I know Bob made hardly anything from the survival courses and he would be the FIRST person to admit he wasnt effective or aggressive enough as a business man.


I agree with Russ also that really the only people with real justified concern are military or closefreinds/family -everything else is bandwaggon hopping and getting a vicarious thrill from what has fast turned into a fiasco "oooh look by spouting off I can put myself centre stage for a bit and make this about MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE"

it has turned into the Jerry Spriner show, there has been what is for me a bewildering and disproportinate outpouring of emotion and a real energised effort behind all this to discredit the man and for some an opportunity to (lazily and unimiginatively) shoehorn personal vendettas into the issue to also try and discredit me - what fuels it?

where does all this faux moral outrage come from?

are people just nicking slices of the tasty looking "righteous indigantion" pie which is really only reserved for military folk?

Quote :

frankly i'm stunned that this subject is growing like jack's bean stalk by the day.

I was convinced it had run its course, but there might still be some gnawing in this bone yet.

...having just seen the "streetfightnonsense" video on youtube - these dudes have free time and "hate" in abundance

Russell Sage wrote:

it behooves us to serve those codes strictly--living up to our values precisely in
accordance with our own natures, never selling ourselves short for this. laws are
important, but at the end of the day--we all know right from wrong, we've all
made terrible mistakes in our lives, and if we ever expect forgiveness, it then
falls on us to be less judgemental and sanctimonious about the subjects of the day.

frankly i'm stunned that this subject is growing like jack's bean stalk by the day.
my teacher once told me that when one is seriously on a path, one has to be like a bee.
a bee lands on a flower and extracts the nector. the nector has been depleted and
the bee continues to another flower. i see this not so much as a call to move away
from one teacher, but as a call to realize the flowers continue to be prolific--each
carrying aspects of a greater objective--ultimately to make honey. learn fighting
from one man [or woman--i started in life being inspired by my mom]; learn morals
from your priest/guru/grandmother/whoever; learn study habits from your OCD
flat mate who constantly makes the honour role. in the end, no one person provides
the answers to all the questions.

You sir, are a wise man

Thanks for that, it made my day

muahahah, if you lie, than do it good

i knew it someway, when i was watching the dvd.. he really dont have the real fighter/ worrior eyes.
but i thought who can lie about his military and in special the SAS???

and all his stuff about the gurkhas, i have trained with the gurkhas in germany not so special at all.

little bit strange richie, you did videos together even in army pants, when you know he s lying about his military.

like the systema vid you also showed to be an easy believer.

so mayby you are to good for this world

but i do believe you have a good heart , and usefull theories and skills
and its the best internet forum
and im not gonna judge bob, i feel sorry for him, and him alone, hope he find his way out of this shit.

on the other hand, if he dont lie his whole life togheter, nobody has known bob spour, so its a nice stunt

Trained with Bob many years ago, what ever is said about him he is a top bloke and I hope this doesn't get him down too much, not interested in the crap dug up to be honest, he knows his stuff and I hope he is getting support from all that know him.

Hi Richard please tell me is that sun is that Sun magasine story true or false?
are Keely Hazell's massive boobs really the pride of Britain? I thought Kelly Brook was the fave?

Richard is not nice and I have ordered you to shuffle around the room with your pants around your ankles sucking your thumb because that is what I likes.Is true what is being told that Bob would not have make wrestle in a mankini with sacha baron cohen?Iam from Finland
And only read the forun please tell me.
If it is true that they are fake then what it must have been what they were taught techniques for?

Regards; Andy&Katja from Finland

hey

you've already sent me an email which I have answered



if you want to use the forum, sign in properly and post an introduction

nothing wrong with bob he a great thai boxing teacher and dont think there anything wrong with the systema dvd

Spour cannot be trusted based on his G Brown like way of not putting up a defence to his critics. He is old news and not worth the page space in my opinion. He let a lot of people down some more than others and I believe he let people like Richard G carry the can for it and was happy to do nothing despite others getting tarnished with the same brush because of his lies.