Confrontation in Kmart Yesterday..

I had a bit of a confrontation yesterday.. that I haven't come across before which was a bit frustrating..

My friend rang me yesterday and I went to meet him at Kmart to hang out. When I went there he was sitting down and talking to some kids of a certain minority group who cause alot of trouble in this town (This is not being racist, it is reality. But some of them I get along with).. they were being friendly and I talked to them a little and we went into the store.. this group of kids were pretty young, the oldest would probably be 12 and others younger.. there was about 6 in total..

Anyway when we went into the store, they followed behind us, and I could feel something was up.. my intuition told me this.. they started hiding behind shelves and throwing stuff at us.. and some were running up to us and kicking us.. I turned around and looked at them and said "come on guys, stop acting like this".. it didn't work and I went and told a manager that I knew (I used to work there).. and he went and warned them, but they got worse.. at one point they come and surrounded us and one grabbed a mop and it poked me with it and it seemed he was about to try and hit me with it, I grabbed it and pulled it off him.. and I figured something had to be done and I chose to go the intimidation/posturing route seeing that they are young.. I have used it other times succesfully so figured it would work this time.. at this time I actually had an adrenaline dump which I didn't expect simply because of their age.. but I can control it through experience bouncing..

Another one in front tried to grab me, and I grabbed his arm and his throat with my other hand, pushed him up against a rack and said "ok walk the f*&k away now you c&*ts".. and then pushed him away, another pushed me from the side.. but then they did nothing and let me walk off straight through them.. and I seen my friend still standing there surrounded by them looking worried, so I had to go back and walk him out of their circle too.. and then I went and told the manager who kicked them out, and we looked around the store a bit longer to wait for them to leave and left ourselves.. when the manager went up to them they were going "but he grabbed him like this.." (talking about me) and he told them they had been warned and to get out..

I was a bit surprised that these kids thought they could get away with shit like that, like their parents must let them get away with anything, and also in the town when groups of them cause trouble most people are scared to do anything and stick up for themselves, so I guess they have learnt that so far..

Thinking about it after, I thought that the intimidation didn't work at all.. but now I realize it did because after I did that they stopped and let me walk through them and walk away..

The thing that worried me about it the most, and I think this is what mostly caused the adrenaline dump, is their age and myself getting into trouble if they attacked me because I would not just take it.. especially if they had weapons.. I know their only like 12.. but a 12 year old with a knife is still dangerous..

Anyone got any feedback on the situation and what could I have done different or better? Has anybody come across this before, it is definately a first for me.. I've been in several confrontations in and out of work but this is a different kind..

-Ben

Sorry to add more confrontation, but something doesn't add up here.

You're a 23 year old bouncer and they are children and you've had an adrenalin dump? how do you deal with drunk 250 lb bar fighters?

We've had situations in the news recently over here of grown men approaching groups of 15 - 18 year olds and getting a kicking or worse, fatally beaten. but pre-teen

Don't get me wrong, I know that groups of kids can be nasty. I've walked through a rough estate in my home town and have had little shits chucking stones at me, but grabbing them by the throat I'm a pretty small guy. 5'9" and 170 lb and I've never met a pre-teen who I thought could hurt me. I'm a believer in pre-emptive self protection, as Richie advocates, but against a 12 year old, I might actually wait until I see the steel before I get physical.

Feedback, well
23 year old bouncers 'hanging out' at kmart, being intimidated by pre-teens as they might be tooled up, but then dealing with the situation by attacking the little shits. I think you have an odd mixture of confidence issues you need to deal with.

To be honest mate, i would have just told them to F*ck off and left the store. There only kids, i know they are little sh*ts and can be annoying but they sound like they are just winding you up. If you start going raving mad they will probably just do it even more, cus they know that you aint gonna hit em and get arrested.

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Sorry to add more confrontation, but something doesn't add up here.

You're a 23 year old bouncer and they are children and you've had an adrenalin dump? how do you deal with drunk 250 lb bar fighters?

We've had situations in the news recently over here of grown men approaching groups of 15 - 18 year olds and getting a kicking or worse, fatally beaten. but pre-teen

Don't get me wrong, I know that groups of kids can be nasty. I've walked through a rough estate in my home town and have had little shits chucking stones at me, but grabbing them by the throat I'm a pretty small guy. 5'9" and 170 lb and I've never met a pre-teen who I thought could hurt me. I'm a believer in pre-emptive self protection, as Richie advocates, but against a 12 year old, I might actually wait until I see the steel before I get physical.

Feedback, well
23 year old bouncers 'hanging out' at kmart, being intimidated by pre-teens as they might be tooled up, but then dealing with the situation by attacking the little shits. I think you have an odd mixture of confidence issues you need to deal with.

So much for constructive feedback..

Your post seems quite confrontational, is this the way you usually deal with people? Thats a great attemped psycho analysis, but it doesn't fly..

If you have had any experience you know that adrenaline usually comes from something being unexpected.. and as I explained in my post it is because I was more worried that id get into trouble if I had to do something..

And as I said what I did was just for intimidation to stop the situation.. which if you have had any experience you would know that this is as valid a tactic as de-escalation.. which obviously didn't work for me in this situation..

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23 year old bouncers 'hanging out' at kmart, being intimidated by pre-teens as they might be tooled up, but then dealing with the situation by attacking the little shits. I think you have an odd mixture of confidence issues you need to deal with.

You seem to be pretty good at taking things out of context.. you obviously have a issue with my post.. I agree I may not have dealt with this perfectly.. I may have made a mistake using a tactic I may have if they were adults as I don't have any experience dealing with kids..

Anyway I just feel your reply has a condescending tone.. that is all I have to say for now..

-Ben

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If you start going raving mad they will probably just do it even more, cus they know that you aint gonna hit em and get arrested.

I see what you mean.. and that is true, but to clarify I have learnt to use aggression and posturing as a tool doing security and alot of times it works and that is what come up in my head..

Your right about walking away.. I probably should of left straight away, I just thought they would keep following to my car and id rather deal with it somewhere else..

-Ben

~

I tried not to make my post too critical, but I was aware it could easily be taken that way.

I understand the idea of using intimidation as a tactic, but these are pre-teens.

I'm sorry if you're offended by my response but from your description of events and the fact you introduced yourself as a 'bouncer, I feel you over reacted.

Also, don't make assumptions about my experience. I've mande none about yours. I've only worked on what you've told us. I haven't guessed at anything I don't know.

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The only problem is that we live in sissy-ass pussyfied societies where men are supposed to have no nuts at all. It's not like you battered his face in anyway. We're entering an age where even swatting your own kids is a crime. When I was a kid his age and got out of hand I got the shit knocked out of me by adults and I didn't cry over it. I learned to behave properly and don't do dumb shit if I can't back it up. Nowadays the legal system and cops see things differently and you end up cuffed for nothing. The system is a damn joke and it's getting worse every day.

Yes.. that is one thing that I can't stand, the pussification of society, I could talk alot about that but won't here.. I know what you mean about the system, i've had idiots attack me and when i've defended myself have gone and cried to the cops saying that I assaulted them, but I had witnesses and camera footage backing me up so he didn't get shit..

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I tried not to make my post too critical, but I was aware it could easily be taken that way.

I understand the idea of using intimidation as a tactic, but these are pre-teens.

Ok I get your point.. as I said I may have made a mistake using a similar thought process as dealing with aggressive adults as I have no experience with kids..

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I'm sorry if you're offended by my response but from your description of events and the fact you introduced yourself as a 'bouncer, I feel you over reacted.

I'm not offended by your post.. because I know the things you were trying to accuse me of are untrue..but I just call out things how I see them.. now maybe I did over react, but what I look at is it worked effectively in the end, even though it may not have been the ideal response..

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Also, don't make assumptions about my experience. I've mande none about yours. I've only worked on what you've told us. I haven't guessed at anything I don't know.

Ok.. point taken.. I have no idea about your experience, so you are right, I can't assume anything.. its just the way I interpreted what you were saying. Though you have made a pretty big assumption based on my post.. "23 year old bouncers 'hanging out' at kmart, being intimidated by pre-teens as they might be tooled up, but then dealing with the situation by attacking the little shits. I think you have an odd mixture of confidence issues you need to deal with."..

Seems like we both call things like we see them, which sometimes can cause conflict.. and I understand this as i'm sure you understand i'm not going to sit there and not say something when I don't agree..

Anyway, I do agree with the part that I may have overreacted, but the other stuff no..

I know we are both constructive forum members so lets get onto other subjects to further our learning.

-Ben

Ben/ "Dominance"

what a strange name, who are you "dominating"?

every time I log in, another dodgy "fight" story?

every other post you are speaking "as a bouncer"?

Listen guys Im going to be really straight with you: I dont want to be a cyber fascist but this is my forum, my time is precious and life is short so any whiff of bullshit is going to start getting the short shrift.

My vision for this forum is very clear: if we arent moving in postive directions I will shut it down (Ive done it before as many of you already know)

I will not be putting up with people masturbating their fragile egos by building ficitonal online personas to compensate for their general failings as a human being.

This goes for everyone, new or old.

This is a forum that is very clearly about the discussion of cutting edge psycholigical and physicial training for self protection.

Lets work together to push things forward to the next level.

Lets not get bogged down in piss and wind and thinly veiled penis comparisons.

You MAY tell fight stories, in fact I encourage you to, but trust me Ive been in the game a long time and if I smell the tiniest whiff of poo Im going to just ban members and delete posts... Streetfightsecrets currently gets a lot of hits from a lot of people who are potential clients of mine.

My forum is a reflection of my work and what I do- please remember that.

I want you to enjoy the forum and to speak freely, but stay focussed.

Always ask the question before posting: is this relevant? is it positive? is it useful?

we all mis post from time to time, as they say in NLP people in bad states can make bad decisions- which is fine, Ive done it myself many times.

what im talking about is a consistent attempt to derail threads and/or to bring it back to some little suffering ego entity who needs attention- where this is seen, people just need to get blocked!

Ive learned loads from this forum and if you are its because I want you to be, so thanks for contributing.

Regular forum members/clients: the forum will be a constant process of sorting wheat from chaff- please pm me if you pick up any wierd vibes.

Sorry if I sound like Im being harsh or pushy but as I said, life is short.
Too short to waste on people who cant or wont help themselves, right?

Cant help but feel that this field of study has been resting on its laurels for about a decade, now we can contribute to giving it the good solid kick up the arse it needs and its students deserve!

Like the song says, lets push things forward.

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Ben/ "Dominance"

what a strange name, who are you "dominating"?

every time I log in, another dodgy "fight" story?

every other post you are speaking "as a bouncer"?

I love it how you ask me these questions as if you are giving me a chance to defend my position, but ban my username from the forum.. the username Dominance I have been using for a long time.. I chose it for a reason, but I will not explain that here..

The reason I post alot of my confrontations is that I don't have alot of experience in this area and I don't have a mentor or anything as I have in the past, so places like this is where I get advice. I speak as a bouncer, because that is what I do.. it is my lifestyle and my passion at the moment even.. to learn as much as I can about it. You saying this is just like if I said "every other post you post as a reality based self defense instructor".. doesn't make sense does it?

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I will not be putting up with people masturbating their fragile egos by building ficitonal online personas to compensate for their general failings as a human being.

You MAY tell fight stories, in fact I encourage you to, but trust me Ive been in the game a long time and if I smell the tiniest whiff of poo Im going to just ban members and delete posts... Streetfightsecrets currently gets a lot of hits from a lot of people who are potential clients of mine.

I can assure you every story is true.. and I have had many situations that I haven't posted.. its not like ive started a threat "BENS FIGHT STORIES".. I post these things when I come across something that confuses me and want advice from somebody more experienced.. and yes I admit.. alot of things do confuse me in this area.. hence why I post alot..

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what im talking about is a consistent attempt to derail threads and/or to bring it back to some little suffering ego entity who needs attention- where this is seen, people just need to get blocked!

Doesn't apply here..

I don't know if its because I had a disagreement with one of your members, which is a part of life, should life be censored? Should everybody who disagrees with somebody elses opinion simply disappear.. isn't that how you learn?

I smell bullshit here myself.. banned for simply having a disagreement.. because the other things you posted before banning me do not apply.. I have come in here with utmost respect for you Richard and your material..

Whats your real issue here? Is banning people without actually finding out what is going on good business sense? Maybe it is simply because your clients can see what you want them to see, giving them a certain perception that you have created..

-Ben

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I love it how you ask me these questions as if you are giving me a chance to defend my position, but ban my username from the forum.. the username Dominance I have been using for a long time.. I chose it for a reason, but I will not explain that here..

Banning you didnt communicate it well enough obviously: you are not welcome here.

Please do NOT post here again.