The OODA Loop

Hey Richard,

How important do you think it is for someone to learn how to use the OODA (Observe, Orient, Decide, Act) Loop?

Arnold

People use it everyday. Most aren't aware of it though.

I totally agree with you. I was just getting the opinion of others because I had someone on another forum who posted a reply to the same question and he made it sound like it wasn't a good idea.

Arnold

I find it to be a tremendous help when running through specific scenarios.

What did the guy on the other forum say?

Well someone had used a boxing analogy to give their opinion about the OODA Loop and the other poster had this to say:

"That's not hand to hand combat, that's sport, whether in a ring or in a bar impressing some girl.

The term hand to hand combat, to me, means a military situation, rare or non-existent nowadays. Someone will have knife at least, probably a gun.

If it's a street self-defense encounter, the fellow probably already has his knife or stick out, and his two buddies have already tackled you. There is only time for mind games if it is sport, whether sanctioned or not.

I'd suggest looking into attackproof, the shredder guy, Bauer, or Wick, unless sport is what you meant. "

I went on to explain that I DID mean a "street encounter" and then I explained why I thought the OODA Loop would work in self defense. His response still tells me that he believes that it would take too long to use the OODA Loop in that kind of encounter. So I FURTHER explained my position. Hopefully he finally understands.

Arnold

Hi Arnold

I dont really understand the question or the chap on the oother forums response (be means BLauer nor Bauer, unless he means looking into Jack Bauer's special stressed out of breath hand to hand anti biological virus combat- and the shredder guy ? Rich Dimitri)

the OODA loop isnt a technique you can choose to buy into or not like:

"do you like to use the right cross?"

"no, its only applicable in a sporting context blah blah blah..."


the OODA loop is just a MODEL to explain a psycholigical process: cognitive awareness

so you dont really get to choose! what opinion can you have about it other than "it IS / IS NOT the most effective model for describing conscious awareness "

because it isnt the only one, just the most popular- back in the 40's there was miller, gallanter and pribrams OODA loop predecessor called the T.O.T.E... which is a much more clunky model standing for TEST OPERATE TEST EXIT

i.e.

I want to pick up my cup of tea

test: have i picked it up yet?

answer: no

operate: extend arm towards tea

test: have i picked it up yet?

answer: yes

exit: stop picking up the cup of tea


here is something interesting about the OODA loop, I found a way a few years ago after a bad bout of insomnia, (sometimes philoisophical pontification makes you go asleep)

it fits in with the 4 noble truths of buddhism

Observation: all life is suffering

Orientation: the root of suffering is attachment

Decision: the cessation of suffering is attainable through the eghtfold path

Action: start living a better life through right action, right thought, right livelihood etc increase good karma decrease suffering

further proof that bhuddism was the first truly scientific, objective, detached world view


AND, the OODA loop and the 4 noble truths in some ways reflects the very origin of consciousness itself... because you arent consciously aware without PAIN

when you are in the womb, no self awareness and therefore no self... when you pop out into the cold air to get your botty smacked immediate pain and the beginning of hunger, loss, sadness and a sense of self is born out of the suffering

Thats why meditation and meditative practise or mindfulness is so pleasant and so hard to talk about- because it dimishes suffering and thereby your sense of self fades simultaneously... bit like being sucked into a beautiful sunset... no more suffering for that moment -


anyway what does this have to do with punching folk in the face?

well, I was trying to deepen your understanding of the OODA loop, is a model nothing more... in psychology we have lots of MODELS they arent real but something like them IS happening so it makes them functional.

DOnt get attached to them... it will increase your suffering...

so suffering or pain

I love this forum