Who are UK's SP instructors would you suggest for Counterknife material?

Is UK not one of the "grab and stab, head lock and shiv" centers of the world due to disarming of the public? Guys. Who do the UK SP instructors do the peeps on this forum go to for counterknife tactics?

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EDGED WEAPON TACTICS AND COUNTER TACTICS:
Edged weapons are amongst the most ancient of implements used by human adversaries engaged in interpersonal conflict. Their use tends to culminate in the premature extinction of one and sometimes both parties. Unfortunately the potential lethality of the blade is not always realized or taken into account when confronting a knife-wielding attacker. There is a commonly held view that a person armed with a knife is less dangerous than a person armed with a firearm. The truth is that within their practical ranges both weapons are capable of fatal life stopping wounds. Some interesting facts include:
U.K. studies:

Edged weapon assaults are the most commonly used weapon for killing people (7 in 20)
In half the incidents of muggings on men the offender is armed with a sharp instrument

North America:

One in three chance that if faced with a subject who had an edged weapon, you will be attacked and injured
Attacks with edged weapons usually occur when you least expect them
In Victoria BC Canada, our police department has found an increase of 35% in the number of calls that they deal with where an edged weapon was involved
In 1994, out of the 7 murders in Victoria, 6 were committed with knives
The majority of “street” type people carry some kind of edged weapon be it legal or illegal.


FBI Statistics:

Edged weapon attackers are responsible for 3% of all armed attacks of police
Firearm attacks account for 4%
Both of the above stats represent fatalities
Subject shot, 10% die from their wounds
Subjects stabbed, 30% die from their wounds
Calibre Press:

Since 1980 the number of people routinely carrying knives in North America has increased by 92%
I have personally gathered research form around the world on edged weapon assaults and the following facts emerged during my research:

The most popular assault technique utilized by the attacker was found to be the hammer strike – either straight down or diagonally
The victim tends to squat in an effort to take a path which offers perceived escape
Many people seldom saw the edged weapon that penetrated their body. They failed to recognize the danger cues due to faulty perception
Knife attacks were found to be exceptionally accurate, to penetrate deeper that some bullets, creating remarkable permanent cavities and rip through numerous organs in one stroke
In reality, within their respective ranges, knives are superior to firearms as far as lethality is concerned


Within its range, a Knife:

Never runs out of ammunition
Never jams
Never misfires
Rarely misses target
Cuts bone, tendon, muscles, arteries, veins with one thrust
Can bring about sudden shock, pain, and extended wound channels
It has better stopping capabilities
Is psychological defeating
Has superior concealment capabilities
It occupies a permanent wound channel until extracted, at which time, if the blade is withdrawn from a lung, consciousness is rapidly lost


I have also attended several autopsies involving edged weapon deaths and in speaking with Forensic Pathologists have found the following medical facts:

Typical death of a stab wound in homicide cases is 1 inch to 1.5 inches through the rib cage
In most edged weapon attacks the victim received multiple knife wounds. The usual cause of death are usually the last few wounds of the overall attack
Even short bladed knives can penetrate the abdomen by 8-10cm
3cm allows penetration of the ribs
4cm allows penetration of the heart
because of the small surface area of a knife, the amount of force per unit area is TONS per square inch

Countined

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The above noted information shows the importance of training to deal with such encounters. A person’s ability to deal with such situations will be based on his/her TRAINING AND EXPERIENCE. Experience is something not easily acquired, proper training can save lives by preparing you both physically and psychologically. Remember that most edged weapon assaults take place unexpectedly and so quickly that it is not unusual for the defender not to have time to realize that an edged weapon is involved. The attacker who possess an edged weapon usually does not want to convey in any way that he has one, and will usually conceal it until such time as he can deploy it quickly against you. Although a reality, it is a rarity that the attacker will produce his weapon in full view prior to an assault.


As I continued to conduct me research into edged weapon assaults on both police officers and the general public I was also able to identify three common denominators that seem to be present in many edged weapon assaults:

In most edged weapon attacks, the defender is already involved in the physical encounter way before he or she even has time to realize that a knife is being used
Most defenders see a thrust or slice with a knife as just another punch or kick and not an edged weapon assault
It was difficult if not impossible for the defender to differentiate between an attack with an edged weapon or an attack using hands of feet. This was especially true when the defender was not aware from the start of the assault , that the attacker had a knife


I’m a big believer in, “don’t tell me, show me” so in early 1992 I conducted an empirical video research study. I had 85 police officers participate in a scenario based training session where unknown to them, they would be attacked with a knife. The attacker, who was dressed in a combatives suit, was told that during mid way of the contact, they were to pull a knife that they had been concealing, flash it directly at the officer saying “I’m going to kill you pig” and then engage the officer physically. The results were remarkable:

3/85 saw the knife prior to contact
10/85 realized that they were being stabbed repeatedly during the scenario
72/85 did not realize that they were being assaulted with a knife until the scenario was over, and the officers were advised to look at their uniforms to see the simulated thrusts and slices left behind by the chalked training knives

When I reviewed the hours of video tape of the above noted scenarios, I also made several other interesting observations in how the majority of officers reacted to the attacks:
most attempted to disengage from the attacker by backing away from the threat. This usually resulted in the attacker closing quite quickly with their victim
Those officers that did engage the threat immediately, proceeded to block the initial strike of the attacker and then immediately began to grapple with the attacker using elbows and knee strikes, but FAILED TO CONTROL THE DELIVERY SYSTEM REUSLTING IN A LARGE NUMBER OF LETHAL BLOWS WITH THE KNIFE.
Most of the scenarios ended up on the ground


After making these observations, I began to ask myself why I was seeing the above noted reactions. In my research I had the opportunity to read an article authored by Bruce Siddle and Dr. Hal Breedlove entitled “ Survival Stress Reaction” . In this article Siddle and Breedlove sated:

“ research by numerous studies provide two clear messages why people will place themselves in bad tactical situations. The common phenomena of backing away under survival stress results from the visual systems deterioration of the peripheral field to attain more information regarding threat stimulus. Since the brain is demanding more information to deal with the threat, he officer will invariably retreat from the threat to widen the peripheral field. Secondly, the brains normal ability to process (analyze and evaluate) a wide range of information quickly is focused to specific items. Therefore, additional cues, which would normally be processed, are lost. This explains why people can not remember seeing or identifying specific facts which were relatively close to the threat.”


The above noted research by Siddle and Breedlove not only confirmed my findings but also answered why our officers were acting they were. It also explains why one officer, who had actually caught the attackers knife hand with both of his hands and was looking directly at the knife, stated “I didn’t see any knife” It was not until I showed the video that he believed there was a knife.


Based upon all the above noted observations, I began to research a number of edged weapon defensive tactics programs that were being offered to both police officers and citizen. I attended several programs across North America and in doing so, I found that many of the programs although practical in a training environment, were totally unrealistic for the reality of the street. Many of these programs had several pitfalls:


Most assumed the defender knew that the attacker possessed an edged weapon. ( what good is this assumption when we know that the majority of attacks with knives the defender did not know the attacker had a knife)
Most techniques being taught were to complicated for people to remember ( to many fine complex motor skills which we know do not translate when survival stress clicks in no matter how well trained)
Most techniques neglected the not so frozen limbs which the attacker still possessed and would use if not neutralized.
Most techniques being taught concentrated on controlling the knife hand rather than the delivery system. ( the hand moves faster than the eye in a spontaneous attack. As well if cut, blood is a very good lubricant and makes grabbing the knife hand, even with two hands, very difficult if not impossible. To replicate this, use some baby oil during your next edged weapon defensive tactics class)
Most techniques being taught were designed to be used against a static (stemming) attack.. (Real knife assaults are not static but fluid and dynamic in nature)
Most techniques were designed to be used against what I call wide “Hollywood” motion attacks. ( most knife assaults are short and multiple in nature)
Most techniques were designed to be used under perfect conditions of the dojo or training studio. ( most would not work if fighting/rolling around in the mud, the blood, and the beer of an “open” rather than “closed” environment


When looking for a Realistic Edged Weapon Tactics/ Counter tactics Program you should ensure that you pick one that teaches:\


AWARENESS STRATEGIES

2) REALISTIC HANDS ON COUNTER TACTICS WHICH FOLLOW THE S.A.F.E. PRINCIPAL. Simple Adaptable Fast and Effective



Awareness strategies start with the above noted information on stats and facts.


TYPES OF ATTACKERS:

There are two types of attackers that you will have to deal with, Skilled and unskilled. Although it is a nicety to know the difference between the two types of attacker, it is very important to remember that both are as equally as dangerous. Remember it is not the skill level of the attacker but rather the desperation factor that makes him so dangerous. As well, in a dynamic spontaneous assault involving an edged weapon, you will probably not have the time to assess your attackers skill level. This is why it is so important that any counter edged weapon program you use, it must work against both the unskilled and skilled attacker. I say:


IF THE SUBJECT PULLS A KNIFE CONSIDER HIM TO BE AN EXPERT



The best defense against an edged weapon is to not get into one in the first place. Watch for edged weapons, this means watching a person’s hands. I have stated for years that the only assumption I make in a fight is that the person I an dealing with may have a concealed weapon that I don’t see.

By being aware of the ways in which a person may deploy an edged weapon may give you the advantage to with the encounter. This means, get to know the technology available. Visit you local knife/ army surplus stores and see what is available. Also look into how this technology is deployed:

Listen for the unsnapping of a button on a knife case
Listen for Velcro opening
Listen for the click of a lock blade
Movement behind the back
Drawing motion of the arm/elbow
The way in which a person may be packing a visible knife. A buck knife case that is holstered with the snap opening down lets you know that this person had thought about using gravity to deploy the knife quickly.
Palming


In my program I have over 50 slides of actual knife wounds that I also show to further bring to light the issue of awareness and respect for the blade.



TYPES OF GRIPS AND STROKES:


There are as many gripes and strokes as there are people carrying knives. Is it important to know and understand how an attacker may be holding an edged weapon when it comes to defense. NO !!!!! I believe that the only important thing for you to understand is that the attacker is attacking with a knife. Again, in a dynamic and spontaneous knife attack you will likely not know how the weapon is being held. So if you have learned a system of edged weapon defense that is dependant upon how the knife is being held, good luck using it in the real word !!!!!


WHAT HAPPENS IF YOU DO GET CUT:

Do not panic
Consciously make yourself breath slower (autogenic breathing)
Inspect yourself and look for injuries seen and more importantly not seen
Apply direct pressure to wounds
If injury are to limbs, elevate if possible
If you have a chest wound, seal it and protect your airway in case you go unconscious, you don’t want to drown in your own blood
If you have a punctured lung, exhale first and use an air tight article to cover and seal the wound
Mental commitment “ I’m going to Live”




PRINCIPALS OF PAT, WRAP, AND ATTACK EDGED WEAPON COUNTER TACTICS:


1) Respect the blade The person who attacks with an edged weapon has two incredible advantages.

PSYCHOLOGICAL: has chosen to use the weapon ruthlessly
PHYSICAL: usually has first strike advantage

Again remember, it is the desperation factor and not the technical skill alone that makes a person armed with an edged weapon so dangerous


Expect to get cut. You will likely get cut, bleed, may or may not feel pain. A program that teaches students not to expect this fact is NEGLIGENT. Your goal is to “WIN” notice I use the word “WIN” and not “SURVIVE”. Words are very powerful. The word SURVIVE is no different than the word “TRY”. Both of these words to the subconscious mind mean “FAILURE”. Our goal is to WIN, survival is a by-product of winning.

Neutralize the line of attack. In any kind of combatives it is important to get you body of the line of attack.. Remember in a knife fight you will get cut and stuck, the secret is to limit the amount/degree of this damage. Unlike a fist fight, you can not stand there and take multiple blows with a knife

Control the delivery system. In the system of Pat Wrap and Attack we do not play the knife hand but rather the delivery system ( arm/elbow) In hockey do you play the puck or do you play the man. You play the man why, the puck moves to quick. In a knife fight don’t visually lock onto the knife hand it moves far to fast when compared to the arm/elbow. We also do not attempt to grab the knife hand in a dynamic situation for the reasons that I mentioned earlier. Small target, slippery when blood is present Remember than most edged weapon deaths are associated with serious multiple blows. Why, person failed to control the delivery system. The delivery system is the arm (lever), if we can control the lever we control the blade. The only exception to this rule is in a static knife hold up where the knife hand is not moving and can easily be controlled with two hands.

Attack the attack.. I believe that so long as the attacker has the opportunity to continue his attack, he has a strong tactical advantage, with a strong psychological advantage as well. Both of these advantages must be neutralized as soon as possible by throwing the attacker on the defensive.



I have been involved in FOUR separate edged weapon attacks which I “won”, and I have had one person die in my arms from an edged weapon attack.. There are a lot of edged weapon defense programs out there that are designed to get you KILLED because they do not deal with reality. Do your homework. I have attempted to summarize some of the reasons for the development of my 8 hr Pat. Wrap, and Attack system in this post. This system is being used around the world and has saved many lives. Knowledge and the understanding of that knowledge is power.

Though I've seen some of his counterknife material and in clearly I can see Rich Dimitri's and Tony Blaur's influence...every good instructor will adopt what they see as functional tactic WHILE giving credit due....like Richie does..that shows integrity and character.

Dude has alot of LE studies on criminal MO. etc. and an advocate of NLP applications for combat too on his site :http://www.personalprotectionsystems.ca/safetyarticles.htm

Enjoy
Warren

Nice little post that. Didn't read it all, but read a few paragraphs which I felt really applied and appreciated them.

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Thanks Dave ..Heard good things about him from the senshido forum.....Hey just checked out his site, and his 2 counterknife vidclips!

Does Lee have a WW2 combatives background, his def to the knife thrust looks like a modified lowline axehand to the blade arm?

Haha ,what a small RBSD world this is, in the seminar review section...there are reviews of Rich "le boss" Dimitri of a UK semi, one of undercover LE SouthNarc's semi whom I had a pleasure to meet at a Carl Cestari NJ semi back in the day during my WW2 combative days and Bill Kipp, chief H2H instructor at RMCAT where I learned pointshooting, aimed fire and IDF pointshooting( which is overated IMO)...but back then the "Israeli mystique" that clings to all combative systems Israeli no matter how unfunctional tends to blind and lure newbies in .

Looking forward to looking at Lee's conterknife stuff!! Thanks again Dave for your suggestion.

On the NOrth American front, IMO the finest counterknife material I've seen( and I've purchased alot and thrown away/sold off alot ) is Senshido's Cutting Edge 1(deals with static knife and basic ballistic pump and slash) and Cutting Edge 2( which deals with the more experienced apeshit prison/gang trained methods eg. lead hand strike,stiffarm,headlock lead hand leg tackle pick up/off balance..rear hand pump and slash)..

I knew Rich Dimitri knew his Counterknife shit during his first US seminar back in 2000 when while "le boss" was teaching, his second in command, approaches me and out of the blue,she asks me "Excuse me, but are you carrying a weapon?"

I was totally shocked, thought she was some sort of mindreader and blurted out "uh....yeah.... a folder...how did you know??"
Senshido'd 2nd in command just smiled secretly and said she'd explain after Rich'es semi.
I was carrying a tactical folder, but was clueless how she was aware of this fact? My blade was not "printing" on my jean's pocket....Rich Dimitri later explained that criminals or law abiding citizens when under adrenal stress in the preassault phase will unconsciously do a physical security check of their weapons like patting where they are carrying for emotional assurance ....along with many other precontact indicators of carrying hidden weapons

Warren