Multiple attackers.

What is everyone's opinion on this, and what can and should be done on this? Almost every confrontation I'm in lately is multiple attackers, and I have no idea what to do.

Normally I'll be hanging out with mates, and then suddenly from nowhere, a group of lads will appear. Usually they will hang away from us, and a couple of them will come up to us and test us in various ways. The last time this happened they came over and started demanding cigarettes aggressively. The time before that they walked into one of my mates and started having a go for that. It's all just to test us to see how we react and what we'll do. Thing is I dont really know what to do when this happens. If I react with violence to this "testing" then the rest will come over wanting to kick shit out of me, but if I do what they say then the rest will come over anyway, knowing they can get what they want off me. I can always run, but as soon as I take off they immediately chase after me, and I'm not such a fast runner. Im not worried about my ego, I will happily run away if it keeps me from getting beaten up.

So anybody have any idea's, or anything they have done in the past to get out of this situation successfully, it would really be a help.

A friend who lived somewhere in London once got approached for "10p for a phone call" by a small guy and a big guy. When he got his wallet out they asked for his phone. His wallet went straight back in his pocket and he hit the big guy as hard as possible, knocking him down. The small guy backed up, and pulled his friend away.
Now I think the lesson here is, don't always go for the small guy who may be easier, your aim is to put fear into your opponent and intimidate them so they run away or don't join the fray.
Therefore analyse your opponents, who is the group leader?

When fighting multiples always make sure you don't let any get behind you.

Finish. IF you knock someone down kick them in the head. Make sure they aren't going to get back up again when your dealing with another.

Act quickly, and focus for pain. Go for eye, neck, head, and kidneys.

The rest is disgression, analysis and preparation.

When I last got confronted by a gang of yobs, I made sure they didn't get behind me. They were trying to swarm around me, but I kept backing away and going around in long circles at the same time so they couldn't get around me. They noticed after a while and tried to stop me by coming to the side of me, but I just started circling the ohter way.

I agree, going for the bigger one to put fear in the other(s) is a good idea, but when there are about 10 of them, they aren't likely to be scared by one person.

One came up to us a while ago, with the rest of his mates watching from about 100 metres away. I was just about to leave to get out of there, when I heard him say something along the lines of "people better start giving me some shit now or we'll all bang you." I had a skateboard in my hand so I just started lashing out at him, god know's what made me do it, but anyway he was on the floor and I was just beating into him. He started shouting for his mates and they all just started running over so I fucked off, but they caught up with me anyway. Point is they weren't at all scared that I just beat the shit out of one of their mates. He didn't come near me again, but the rest were eager to kick shit out of me.

In thise case the mob eliminated the fear because of the mob mentality and instead turned them aggressive. I've never had a gang front on me and it's very seldom that someone does in general.
I'd try and avoid it as much as poss as I'm sure you do unless you got plenty of mates with you or some a dab hand at fighting.

Mobs are dangerous.

You know what mate, I usually do have lots of mates with me, but they never stick together. When the yobs are approaching I'll say to them that we will walk all over them if we stick together and all stand up to them, but they all just run away and leave me to stand up to them myself. I need new mates I reckon.

I wouldn't mind if they said their to scared to do anything, but they always go on about how hard they are, and what they would do if this happened and what they would do if that happened, and then when it does they just run and leave me to deal with it on my own. And by doing this they put confidence into the gang of yobs, because they feel powerful in making all my mates run away just by entering their space.

If I could avoid this all the time I would, but sometimes it is unavoidable and I need to know what to do. When they appear I subconsciously know that I dont know what I'm doing, or what I could do to get out of the situation. If I had something to work on, some sort of plan so when they appear I can think , right I'm gonna do this, then I reckon I'll stand a better chance.

When you say things like 'most of the confrontations I'm in lately' it makes me wonder how many confrontations you're in. If it's a lot I would suggest that your best method of self protection might be a change of lifestyle.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not critisising. I vaguely remember what it's like to be a young lad, struggling to find somewhere for me and my mates to hang out. Hanging out on street corners with your mates getting started on by other groups of lads long term sounds like a high risk behaviour. Either you or your friends could get seriously hurt, or you could effectively protect yourself and find you do someone else serious damage and a not very understanding legal system penalises you for it.

Just something to think about. Keep your head down mate.

Hi ben, i have been in this gang on gang situation allot of times when i was younger (football) and the problem is all your instincts will be shouing at you to run away(when you are the prey). it only takes one person to twitch/run and most people will follow. the most agressive group usually wins the initial square up. so you don't need new mates as most people will run. unless your used to the agression!!!

AdamM, I didn't mean that I get into a lot of confrontational situations lately, I meant the last few confrontations I have had, however far apart, have been mostly group attacks, rather than one on one.

slipknot, I understand that most people will run, but when my mates tell me they would stick up for me and wouldn't leave you etc, and then they do it really pisses me off. If they just say they would get scared and run then I would be fine. Basically I dont like bullshitters.

Your right when you say it only takes one person to run and the rest will follow. If one of us starts running then the rest of us will do exactly the same. But if one of us stands up to the threat, the rest will not follow. Most of the time, we easily outnumber the group that approaches us, and would easily be able to intimidate them enough to leave before the fight has chance to start going physical.

Multiple attackers?

Best thing to do:

Run.

Like the wind.

Probably 2nd best thing to do:

Go wild. Maybe bite an ear or two off. Even mobs are scared of a frothing-at-the-mouth, wild-eyeballing, screaming, seemingly psychotic person.

What about when you're cornered by multiple attackers?

Me and my kids (students, actually. I'm a volunteer SD instructor) actually had to create a scenario for this, what with most of them being youth-at-risk (Triads, gangsters and all the basic hooligan type stuff). This scenario is actually quite common where I come from.

Be it against a wall, or in a lift ( alright. Elevator, for you States-guys), in a stairwell or what have you.

In this situation, you can't really run away because there's not really an opportunity to do so.

I subscribe to the adage: If there is no opportunity, one can create one.

So, given that you have 8 tough looking guys cornering you against a wall in an alley, I'd say that your best chance is to whoop the heck out of the biggest (or one of the biggest) cookies - don't take your time here, the others won't probably just stand and look as you stomp their mate's noggin - then when the opportunity arises, you leg it out of there.

There's a Malay saying in my region that translates to "5 men can kill a water buffalo".

It refers to the potential of damage that 5 men can do, unarmed.

Having had more than a couple of experiences like this (I was a former triad member. It's a norm. Don't ask. ) has given me quite an insight into the matter. I have been in both positions, as the victim, and as one of the aggressors.

I'd like to share a story.

Me and my mates were patrolling (actually, we were just making a nuisance of ourselves. Being loud, aggressive and totally obnoxious.) our turf in the heartlands of my country. We spotted this one guy we weren't familiar with, so we decided to "Hung" (confront, with undertones of violence - in local slang) him and maybe give a good hiding if he didn't have any good reason to be where he is. For most of us, we just wanted to do the latter.

So there's this guy, who's at about 1.8m tall (roughly 5 ft 10? ), lanky and looks kind of decent, what with a flower-print shirt and khaki pants, standing at a void deck, most probably waiting for his girlfriend.

We (all 10 of us), approached and made a half circle around him against a wall. The standard pre-whalloping ritual ensued.

Questioning, taunting and pushing.

One of my mates grabbed his collar, pulled him close - almost nose to nose - and issued some threats and opinions about the guys ancestry.

The guy was smiling sheepishly and frankly, I think he looked kind of scared.

So you can imagine how surprised I was when he slammed the outside of his right hand into my mate's neck, then followed up (with the same hand) with a cross to temple of another of my mate on his left. I could still remember it like it was yesterday, and it was very much like seeing a film in slow-mo.

And, no, my mates didn't drop like sacks and spasm like fish out of water. They were just stunned, but that created an opening that the guy took, quick as lightning, to run away.

We were just to stunned to immediately run after him. I still remember thinking at that moment, man that is some good infighting, which it was, 'cos at the moment before he made his strikes, there wasn't even any leg-room for him.

We did follow him though. After around 5 to 10 seconds of staring at each other.

One of us caught up with him. Hand outstretched, reaching for the guy's shirt. Bad move though. The guy suddenly stopped and lashed out with an - almost reflexive - elbow to the face. He didn't even turn around much. And both his hands were up in the air, kind of like he was surrendering, but with his back towards us. He saw me as I came up, while my fellow was moving into a crouch in pain. Then that nerdy guy with the flower-print shirt and khaki pants was off like a roadrunner and too fast and far away for me to catch up with.

I still think the guy couldn't hold up to fighting all 10 of us in a real fight, but this is a real-life situation. In hindsight, I guess the guy wasn't really much of a fighter, but he really did have good common sense. And quick reflexes too. The elbow he gave my mate didn't look like any move I knew. Maybe because he threw up both hands in the air when he braked. I think that elbow was unintentional. Well, one shouldn't pass up good opportunities.


How about when facing multiple aggressors when in a group?

Wouldn't that depend on whether the threat of violence is there, and whose threat is more, well, threatening?

Let's say a few of your mates bolt off, leaving just a handful of you to face the wrecking-crew.

Would you still be up for a fight?

The question is not whether are you looking to fight or not.

It's how much do you want to survive this encounter? And what can you do about it.

Think quick, 'cos in this instance, a split-second is probably all you need to change your life. Or keep it.

Fight. Till the end or just enough to make an exit. Or make like a banana and split. Or yell for your mommy, say uncle or whatever.

Your choice. Your life. You can't ask someone to choose for you. We aren't the one in your position.

Just remember, any action, or inaction, will have it's consequences.


Back to the issue. When facing multiple attackers:

One's not supposed to fight all the aggressors. Maybe one or two, but only if one couldn't help it.

What one's supposed to do is, whatever it takes, to ensure survival.

If one has to fight, then fight enough to make sure one survives. I'd wager that anything more is just sadism and anything less is idiocy (because you'll get yourself whalloped even more. Don't you just love the word, "Whallop"? I think I'll create an urban defence tool and call it the "Whallop Stik" or something).

I'm not saying that violence is the answer, though.

Perhaps this vid might put things into perspective.



That's my two cents. Which isn't worth anything here in Singapore.

Cheers!

This is a no win situation. It really sucks. Of course you can try "stacking" you attackers. Personally, if there is more then one attacker, I think it's time to produce a weapon, or improvised weapon.
I once helped out a kid in school who was getting the shit kicked out of him. He was walking home from school. He walked right passed my house followed by a group of 4 guys. He put up a decent fight considering he was untrained. I came in from behind and took out a couple,but then the victim took a huge BITE out of one of the attackers cheek. It was pretty gruesome. No one ever messed with him again. The kid just got up and walked away( bastard didn't even thank me).
The problem is, it not a great idea to fight a group of people at any time. But it's even worst if you are going to be sitting back on that street corner the next day. It's just going to esclate more and more...

my 2 cents

rich

this is what that question reminds me of.

i was walking with a big group of friends...three assholes tried to pick a fight with me. that whole group (my, err, friends) all dispersed like chickens with their heads cut off. it would have been funny if it was a scene in a movie. we numbered 6 at first. someone else, who vaguely knew me--but we never previously got along, came to back me up. he did all the work. he kicked one of the guys so hard, it took him off his feet. then planted a serious kick into the guys groin. during the pre-fight build up, the 3 had grown to 5 who (i think) just wanted 'in' on it. 5 guys froze from what this one guy did--who later became a friend, a very strong show of focussed force. he didn't pick who he attacked, the first one to run in decided that. and it was the smallest one. now what you had was 5 people backing up like their lives depended on it. hysterical.

we went drinking, as new friends are wont to do. and i got a chance to back him up later...but eventually ended up hanging out with him less, because he really liked looking for fights. as i got older, this was also important. i found i had way too many friends that were into provoking/triggering fights because they felt safe surrounded by the friends they could trust. but that is an aside--off topic as asides are.

what i got from that though, is that what is important is that your initial 'explosion' should look frightening. it should send fear 'ripples' through the souls of the onlookers. whether it's the smallest one, the biggest one, the most in-the-middle-one--ha ha. that's my 2 cents.

russell your story reminds me of a situation which was pretty funny...

i was head doorman on a vip type club and i basically had to know the members by facial recognition alone, other people who wernt members who i was to let in in were allowed by what the managament call an "attitude dresss code"... its still tricky for some of the old school doormen in liverpool to get their heads around the idea that shiny shoes and a shirt do not neccessarily equal a desirbale customer and that some celebrities/ millionaires do wear ripped jeans and designer roughed up tshirts that look like they've been scrapped in!

anyway i always used to let these two lads in who were strippers from the club round the corner because they were well turned out and just had the right look/attitude for the place, all the other lads would give them a hard time because yes they were "pretty boys" yes they did look a bit gay and yes they were male dancers, but I always gave them a walkover.

One night as the vip section downstairs is winding down, Im by the bar drinking a bit of lime juice cordial (yum) when some bellend does a silly dance move and throws his drink over a girl, I walk over and tell him to apologise and buy her a drink and he waves me away disdainfully. This incensed my fragile ego and I gripped him by the head and told him in no uncertain terms what he must do before I threw his ass through the fire exit if he didnt want me to break his nut sack open for him.
He eye gouged me.
This is not the kind of fear and respect I expect from my prey.
I was so outraged I actually forgot to hit him! hahaha!
I shoved him off and he backed into his group (shitbag) of about 6 or 7 guys and they stood off giving it the whole shouty head pecky thing and I was ony my tod (was wearing a radio but in the heat of the moment forgot to use it)

Then suddenly I feel the presence of two lumoxes either side of me. The strippers are facing these buffoons down with me. ONlY then did I notice these strippers are actually about 16 stone apeice and not fat!!

Anyways, it gave the group enough pause to stand in shock wondering to see what everyone else would do first (pack mentality or herd mentality?), in which time a slippery little ninja barback called dj smally ran out to get the doormen

Chinese whispers had gone through the club in 15 seconds that I had been glassed or stabbed through the eye so the whole team stormed the club. I didnt get a chance to throw a single dig.

The buffoons were literally SWEPT by a tidal wave of black coats into a fire exit, not to be thrown out but beaten to bits, the lads were in such a frenzy some of them twatted each other trying to get their digs in- haha! I managed to stop them before somebody got something worse than a bloody lip and a broken nose and the buffoons were ragged into the street ripped up and squeaking about some sort of coming back for us later... they never did, quelle surprise

the moral is: look after stippers they will look after you

no seriously the moral, if there is one is probably that, in my experience anyway, political allegiance is always more powerful and has much more real world application than your ability to deliver a good punch or kick.

Bouncers: Investors in People.

Nice anecdote that Rich. Of course I share that philosophy, that if you lookout for bouncers they will look out for you. More accurately, you check some little swine isn't going to bottle them and they'll be there next week making sure those swines who may have started on you aren't going to be let in.
There's obviously always the problem that if you go to the aid of a doorman someone will mistake your intentions.

Richie,
awesome story...i can picture the whole thing.

let me set some context: i'm on holiday, in a cabin, with my small but high maintanance family. i've just come into town for supplies, got on a public computer in the one room library--and found this great story. ha ha ha. i'm crawling the walls up here, i've tied a matress doubled over to a tree and i've been punching it like a complete nutter. it earned me induction into many towny projects like road work, and dock work (cabin fever, me). this will trigger the right endorphin responses to last me for a bit. cheers.

i have another multiple attacker story that supports your credo--invest in people:
a friend of mine would always travel with one or more of his friends that he really trusted in fights (i remember the part where you said that the shit-bag and his friends looked at each other to see if they were all on board, regarding you and the two bouncers facing them). anyway my friend and his closest friend always backed each other up 100%. his buddy was sporting a broken arm and looked a wee bit easy-prey as a result. in d.c., there was a tendency to affiliate yourself loosely with crews (not really gangs--just alliances of people you want around)...i wouldn't know if this is still true. in short, a guy carrying a 'baseball bat' walking down the street attempted frighten (punk-out/shock/whatever--pick one) the guy with the broken arm at a moment in time when my friend was there--and many many other loosely allied friends. mr. baseball bat was being hit from all sides. ha ha ha ha. i ran into them as he was running up the street like one of the extras on a bad godzilla movie. i love this stuff. i'm trying not to laugh out loud remembering this--as i sit in this quiet library.

okay, back to the cabin...thanks.
i'll never see strippers the same way again--figuratively of course.