Combative Cycles

An article by Mick Coup got my attention in regards to repeating blows. My training has mostly been to alternate strikes, elbows , kicks etc... However, this article and some posts on his website has me thinking about adding repeating cycles as my primary tool in my toolbox. Mick speaks of using one hand as a guide or "laser targeting for the incoming howitzer!"

I have trained some cycles in the past, in fact a fairly well known SP, security, and anti-terrorism expert here in the states, Kelly McCann, likes a weak side tiger claw to the face cycling with a vertical hammerfist. The tiger claw is not a power shot, just enough to distract and if a finger rakes an eye then all the better. The hammerfist is NOT a "jackhammer" type motion. The motion is more rotational. in other words, if you could track the motion of the hand would be slightly oval shaped. As the left hand is shot out the right arm, hand and shoulder is chambered back. The targets are anything it hits. Head, clavicle. arms, brachial plexus the idea is just to make extreme contact! This is a very powerful blow if done with the correct motion. Of course this same cycle could be a power plam strike in conjunction with the off hand tiger claw.

I was playing around with the plam strike a little today and it felt a little more powerful if I dropped my right hand down slightly after striking as I chambered it back. Again a more rotational chamber rather than straight out, straight back.

I use to play around with figure 8 axe hands but I don't feel very comfortable with it.

Any of you guys train repeating blow cycles?

Its interesting.. yesterday I read this post and read the article your talking about.. www.corecombatives.com

I haven't trained for this.. but last night bouncing I found myself using it..

There was this guy who had caused several problems before, he let off a fire extuingisher and did like 5 grand damage when I first started and got charged for it, he got in because at first I wasn't sure it was him.. but then we just decided to watch him closely.. it wasn't long until he started throwing chairs around and being a dickhead.. so he was going to leave.

I let the other guards know and took one with me.. I knew it wouldn't happen peacefully with this guy.. as I know what hes done in the past, fought bouncers from the other club etc.. but anyway..

Had my fence as always when approaching somebody.. and he was aggressive straight away.. "fuck you, i'm finishing my drink.. fuck off".. and he moved into me, his chest touched the edge of my 'fence' and he got more aggressive "fuck you don't you fucking touch me" etc.. there was no talking this guy out I put my hand on his glass as thats what I was most wary of.. and he pulled his hand back and got in my face.. as I expected.. I went to lock him up but it didn't work as I wanted and he turned and slammed me into a fence (a real one this time) I controlled him with a palm and the other guys come in to help.. I didn't have very stable footing and we went through the gate into another fence the other guys had a hold of him but he was after me specifically.. I could read that he was gonna throw a few punches and stopped them by off balancing him.. but he was a fair bit stronger than me.. I palmed him lightly to push his chin up (interrupt his sight).. and used forward drive while softening him up a bit with 3 or 4 shots to the ribs off my right.. I don't know where this come from it just come out.. it was a combination of pushing his chest with my head to offbalance with forward motion (my friend taught me this), with the palm in his face and rips to the body..

So I don't know if it was subconsciously because I read the article before work.. because I haven't really used repetative strikes off the front hand before.. but it did its job.. though if I was trying to restrain him alone as i've had to with people in the past it would have been different.. as I would have been blocking punches from him too.. the whole time he was totally focused on trying to get me..

I'm gonna think about this when I train next session.. as I can now see its valid..

-Ben

If a strike is good and has some effect I always think it bears repeating

Mick also focuses a lot on what he calles "indexing" having the non striking hand work as an anchor/rangefinder for the striking hand- a good solid belt and braces approach

However NCW I dont really like "generic targeting"- generating a powerful shot that can land on any target seems a bit lazy and thoughtless to me- my belief is we should be training for precision shot placement for maximum EFFECT with minimum power/strength draining activity.

But as with anything else, if it works for you- do it.

Sure, I train with repeated blow cycles, to get in repetitions of the strikes so that the strikes become instinctive. The more efficient you can make your movements the faster they become which is important in a SP situation.

Richie


I agree 100% on training specific strike placement, particularly in a pre-emptive context.

Given the time, space, and opportunity striking specific targets are vital. I would never advocate being reckless or lazy in striking in training or in the street. After reading my post I can see how I may have implied that. Sorry about that.

Specificly, If for whatever reason I'm not able to pre-empt, or if things have "kicked off" and during the "scrum" the bastard or bastards ( whichever the case may be just won't stand still) and my shots are not landing full on, or if despite my best efforts I get clipped, I have to do something to gain or re-gain the momentum.

Mick speaks of this in a military analogy of a regiment coming under fire, They will lay down "supressing fire" in order to get the enemy to take cover. This supressing fire is a machine gun effect and is not target specific. This gives the regiment time to recover and re-gain the advantage so that they can then start , "target specific" fire.

In the case of this particular hammerfist cycle ( or cycles like it ) , combined with a forward drive, it's my intent on hitting the bastard in the head and neck area with extreme prejudice! It doesn't matter if I hit his orbital bone, nose, jaw, carotid or clavicle. The point is to gain or re-gain the momentum, to get him moving backwards and covering. These shots are extremely powerful.

If I happen to achieve my objective, which is to end this quickly, then so be it.

Again, I do not mean to imply cycles of this nature are first strike techniques or meant to be done for 5 straight minutes. But simply as a means to an end.

~

Quote :

Why didn't you slap the glass off the table across the room? I think it's safer to get a potential weapon as far away as possible

You are right about it being safer that the potential weapon is as far away as possible.

I guess I wasn't clear on that bit, he had the glass in his hand thats why I grabbed it and as soon as he pulled back I went to control the glass, I actually have no idea what happened to the glass in the end. Last time a guy had a glass he was pulling back to hit me with it and I hit it out of his hand and smashed it on the ground and dragged him out.. which isn't good if you end up on the ground.. but it was better than getting smashed in the face with it.

Unfortunately I can't carry oc spray.. its not allowed for security here in Australia, only for the cops.. and unfortunately I know myself the pain of being sprayed directly in the face with it as I got sprayed trying to help the cops one night..

-Ben

Hi Guys

Paul Vunak , for all his weirdness , has a useful combative cycle. Has anyone seen Rapid Assault Tactics? All in all a truely awful DVD, however during the termination faze, you blitz your opponent with head butts knees and elbows. His method is the closest to any that I've actually used, I did away with the trapping and the elbows and concentrated on repeated cycles of head butts and knees, I only ever used elbows to regain head control if my opponent slipped out . He's a strange man but it is worth a look, actually his strangeness is really quite entertaining

~

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Sergei

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=mX1glZtZejs

Watch this just to see how potty the man can be. For all that I laugh about him, I still respect the guy, I wouldn't like to get on the wrong side of him!

Quote :

I agree 100% on training specific strike placement, particularly in a pre-emptive context.

Given the time, space, and opportunity striking specific targets are vital. I would never advocate being reckless or lazy in striking in training or in the street. After reading my post I can see how I may have implied that. Sorry about that.

No you didnt sound like you were advocating recklessness, BUT some people take a small concept that is based on common sense- like the analogy of laying down "suppressive fire" before moving to "target specific" fire- and then run TOO FAR with the ball - do you know what I mean?

Obviously as the moderator I will sometimes say things to kind of prod the discussion in the right direction because there are people out there who prescribe to the given wisdom:

"you are (always) under so much stress in a fight (no specifics given as to what kind of fight) that you can only ever expect to hit generic targets and any chance of accurate shot placement goes out the window"



this then leads to the crowd of guys who repeatedly strike at targets full force with maximum aggression while shouting!

I would say:

"the way you train is the way you will respond"

So if you are trained to react to physical pressure with a pin point accurate right cross to the jaw (for example) then you have a HIGHER PROBABILITY (nothing is waterproof) of responding that way...
and you can always go back to whaling away with a palm strike if it goes wrong!