What do you think about the PUA community?

Blakops wrote:

Yes, enjoyed the book immensely.

Keep meaning to read some more of Neill Strauss's stuff.

I was going to make a comment in another thread when I saw Neil Strauss mentioned. So I cut the quote out and put it here. I decided to make a new thread to ask this question.

What do you guys think of that whole "seduction community/PUA" movement?

I have some of the programs from some of the "main" guys in this movement and i have found them very helpful in working on my "inner game". I interact with women much more confidently than I ever have but alot of that stuff, IMO, is misleading and sets up alot of "AFC's" for failure. *(Average Frustrated Chump)

"The Game" was an amazing book. I read it in two days, I could not put it down. Not because it's a manual on picking up women,(it's not) but because it's a masterful account of the then new PUA phenomenon and community and it's cast of VERY terribly flawed characters. If Neil Strauss was a fiction writer he could not make up that cast of characters!. It amazes me that some of these guys, make millions now on giving advice to men on all things women, being "men" and even life.

Have any of you guys tried any of these programs and field tested them?

I read the game back in 2005 I believe. Interesting book. Never tried any of it though. I mostly just read the stuff and approach it as sneaky and innovative pop psychology. Breath of fresh air and all...

When you mention flaws, there has got to be a lot of insecurity behind all that effort spent on getting women to like them. I mean, we're not just talking about learning a line or two, but shaping a whole lifestyle around this one goal. You've got to see something from a pretty low place in order to make something appear that big and important in your world.

RichardB wrote:

You've got to see something from a pretty low place in order to make something appear that big and important in your world.

I could'nt have said it better!

It has some interesting mirrors with the SP community in many ways

I enjoyed "the Game" - but what surprised me about the book is the lack of actual sex these "pick up artists" were having. Maybe its just being from promiscuous slutty Britain but all this effort just to be "getting numbers" and "getting dates" just seems a bit daft to me really.


In a way, as in the SP community, by studying it so much, they build it up and make it bigger than it is and move further from their own goals in some ways. I've spoken to american lads who've spent literally thousands of dollars on products and bootcamps and felt LESS confident than when they started out.

Plus, the PUA gurus are mainly quite ghastly characters arent they?

Can you imagine spending anytime with them? They have that needy, pushy, clingy feel of aspiring drama students, the delivery of the material is at times semi hysterical in tone and you can almost feel the issues bristling beneath the surface. Leaves me wondering: "do they even LIKE women? do they even LIKE people? do they even LIKE themselves much?" - There is sometimes a bitterness and a desperation to it all that I find repellent.

Would you want to spend time with any of them for anything other than being trained? I reckon they would be hard work. Makes me think, if you cant attract me, if in fact I find you repellent, are you really a "master of attraction"?

Except Neil Straus, I reckon he is perfectly capable of talking about other things and not needing to impress.


If I got into teaching PUA material I would pwn that field.

Combative Ninja Mind Control pwnage .


Bottom line: It's just not that hard to get female interest ... but then again some lads do love making a mess of things dont they?

in fact if I was going to teach a course I wouldnt teach what to do, becuase there is no what to do, I would teach what NOT to do


"its not a good idea to whinge about your ex girlfriend or wife..."

"really, I thought she would take pity on me and that pity would transform into carnal desire?"




Ha! I should do it just to piss the PUA "nerd kings" off

Yes you should - bet it would be a riot .....

From the snippets on the website, I figure the vacuous giggling airheads they seem to want to attract make a perfect paring with the obnoxious smirking losers they seem to want to be ... oops, did I say that out loud .....?

excuse me while i step up onto my soap box...

Of the programs I have heard, there is never EVER any mention of being a family man and father. They speak about being Alpha male, a leader etc but the subject of aspiring to be a responsible husband and father is never mentioned or taught. I realize being a husband and father is not necessarilly the measure of a man, but these gurus always speak about ancient man's natural need to inseminate as many women as possible to ensure their seed lives on but they never speak about the importance of taking care of that seed. On average, the men teaching these things are in their late thirties, early forties, never married, no children. If the PUA thing started when I was in my early twenties, I would absolutley be hitting the clubs and really trying the game out but honestly, I'd feel creepy at my age now chatting up 21 year old college girls (even though my jaw hits the floor when I see a hot 21 year old) *i'm not a saint, I wish I had 1000 women day but it aint gonna happen.

As I mentioned my "inner game" has improved and I realize and am aware of my limiting thoughts and paterns thanks to what i have learned from some of these guys. So my experience with the PUA stuff had some value for me personally.

Now, excuse me while I jump off a cliff...LoL
But, when the dust settles at the end of the day, I believe attraction is biological. Women and men are generally attracted to people who are of similar attractivness to themselves. Yes we do see couples where the woman is a "10" and the man looks like a "4" but my experience is that the "long term" couples you see on the street are generally of similar attractiveness. My point is, no matter how hard you try, unless you are an "8" '9" or "10" yourself, you wont get a "10" woman. If you are a "5" you can perhaps raise yourself up to a "6" or "7". *I'm only speaking about physical attractiveness here..
inside we are all 10's...sniff sniff...group hug time.

yeah i know, I should be a motivational coach!

Richard I agree, With many of these guys, you can totally sense the issues bubbling beneath the surface. For the most part, they are not guys I would ever want as friends.

When you see some of the guys who "graduate" from some of these seminars, I sense very insecure guys who drastically made over their wardrobes, look very uncomfortable but at least they look "edgy" and as maija said "smirking"

Ah yes, the paralells to the whole SP world were not lost on me. I was writing a bit on it but cut myself short.

Generally speaking, trying to get something comes from not having it. Women, fighting skill, donuts, etc. Over time, I guess what people do just becomes their thing or whatever, but in the beginning at least, the amount of effort they put into it and the space they let it take up in their lives can be taken as an indicator of the extent that they lack the thing they seek. So that's one motivator.

These things are also places of monkeys. Being a man is essentially about getting laid and being dangerous. Well at least if you spend all day climbing trees and eating bananas. Then again we all do that, we just don't know we do. Instincts fuel these interests a lot. I've seen shadowboxing in pubs, but I've never seen someone demonstrate for all present, their awesome ping pong moves. But ninja-fu supercool air-decimating punches, oh yes. Sitting there drinking and laughing at the table, then "hiyaaaa" *pow pap kapow*


Riiight... anyway, I was going to say I hadn't seen swimming moves demonstrated, but on second thought I think I may have seen some kind of dry-land swimming going on Likely due to raising the liquid-content of their bodies to the point where their biology must have thought they were actually some odd sea-creature frolicking about underwater. But at least for the ninja shit, they're using it as a way to increase their percieved value as primates. Have you ever seen incredibly poor thai boxing performed as a freestyle kata to pop music on a dancefloor, by a drunk hairy and strange little man? (Try to imagine Iranian president Ahmedinejad as the hero of this scene) I assure you, his attempt at looking cool crashed and burned.

And of course, there is also something fun and hobbyish about anything that people take up an interest in over time. Like fishing or something. At some point, whether seduction or SP, a large part of the motivation comes down to the enjoyment of tinkering with it.

But ok. Back to the point now. Insecurities and pathology, motivation, etc.

Call it rationalization if you like but I believe concerns for personal safety against violence are more justified than PUA stuff. Because no matter how strong, how many weapons you carry, how well trained in terms of skill, nobody is tougher than the fact that we are all made of flesh and blood. Nobody is superman, and no amount of effort will make anyone superman. I approach all this stuff with the very keen knowledge that I am not superman. I seek the advantages because I depend on them. Being just a bag of flesh and blood hung up on some bone. Not powerful or significant.

Not any more than anyone else...

It's why I laugh inside whenever I see someone strutting around like they're the ultimate badass or something. Man they just don't know... Except they do. They may posture and show off what a movie hardass they believe themselves to be at one moment, and you can just hear assholes slamming shut and the sheepish silence that ensues the moment something truly dangerous comes around, like a bear or something. Or just another, slightly tougher tough guy. It's not that I'm tougher, I'm usually not, but the whole thing is only so much bullshit. Flesh and blood...

It is why an armed society is a polite society. It kind of gets the point across. and those who do not get the point get another kind of point through them, so that politeness once again can cover the land. This reality forces a man to be humble. To know his place in the world. That place is not high.

Now, confidence? Err... I don't know. I know my place under the giant boot of reality. Confidence bows to simple mortality. But there is no mystery around the problem. I see it as it is and know what I must do. And my ability and performance reflects what actual quality training I've put myself through, that, minus the Murphy factor, is all I can expect. I don't know about confidence, maybe certainty, then again maybe that is confidence. Tempered by realism. There's a connection slot here to Buddhism and ego stuff I suspect.

Concerns more justified than in PUA stuff... Because of tangible survuval factors. But obsessing over it is something else. Especially at the insecurity stage. Personally I know I entered the field of interest coming from insecurity and of not having it. That is no longer true. It's not that I rate my fighting skills that high, but I'm pretty sure in my knowledge of what's what at this point. I suppose it comes down to knowing one's limits, and what is beyond them or will require planning and technology. On the primal level I've done my best to choke that monkey that wants to posture and show off, using violence as a vehicle to increase social value and all that bullshit. Now it is mainly at the tinkering stage. It is fun and interesting. But at the same time I know I'm just as powerful and significant as a slab of steak as far as reality is concerned, so I'm pretty serious about seeking more and new advantages. but it is not something I spend a lot of time worrying about. When it takes up my mind, it is usually some mechanical or innovative angle on it.