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Richard Grannon
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PostSubject: Beware Double Speak   Tue Jul 14, 2009 9:17 am

every field of study has its own "double speak" and euphemisms, which is inevitable, but could I ask people to try and make an effort to avoid them?

one I see a lot, and have used a lot, is "adrenal dump" where this could mean anything from rage, fear, emotional upset, indignation, phobic responses, excitement... these are all obviously vastly different emotions and experiences , the term masks the reality

there are lots and lots of terms that get used, but dont let yourself hide behind the term, if your frightened say you are frightened, if your uncontrollably "toddler tantrum" enraged then say that- the double speak lets us off the hook of admitting "undesirable" emotional states that dont sit well with our self image

dont let yourself off the hook! Laughing
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maija
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PostSubject: Re: Beware Double Speak   Tue Jul 14, 2009 1:32 pm

So, in the example I used, in the paint store. I don't actually know what emotion I was feeling. Honestly the guy's anger seemed so out of place that most of all I was confused/surprised/taken aback. Not angry and not afraid, perhaps uncertain what to do with this kind of aggression? I do know that my heart rate went up, I started getting that empty leg feeling thing, and knew I wasn't thinking very clearly - had to really focus to keep my voice calm and decide what to do next. The whole experience made me realize that getting yelled at when I was least expecting it, caused a much stronger physical reaction than I was expecting. Would 'adrenal dump' be appropriate here, or something else?

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PostSubject: Re: Beware Double Speak   Tue Jul 14, 2009 3:44 pm

Actually lar, its occurred to me since I joined the SP forum years ago when people would ask a question that looked like this

"hey guys I was walking down the road the other day when someone knocked me over and forced me to give them a blumpkin, I experienced adrenal dump but through my training I decided to act like I was complying as a good strategy for self protection, how do you think I did?"

and then to my shock and horror everyone would chime in with "you did ok mate, you proved you were the bigger person" etc

It reminded me when answering the anonymous parking road rage thing in the members section, I knew there was something else and thought it was fear/shame of being fearful but actually there was several other mitigiating emotive factors (to do with race) that Ive been made aware of since

in that case use of the word "adrenal dump" didnt mask an unpleasant emotion as much as an unpleasant situation

"adrenal dump" is of course the correct term in the paint shop incident to the extent you experienced a massive dump of adrenaline, but was it caused by fear of being assualted, shock, the shame of being shocked etc etc

These are nasty confrontational scenarios that we discussed, noone is going to walk away unscathed - we will potentially feel guilt, remorse, frustration and all these other nasty things that are hard to talk about,

but we really should be talking about them

so yes and no, dont take it as a personal response to the paint shop thing, take your paint shop story as a "tipping point" for me to say something that has been on my mind for... well... literally years. Very Happy


doublespeak, I hear it a lot in psychology and sometimes it makes me want to barf, especially when used to "sanitise" appalling behaviour... "projecting and acting out" vs just saying "acting like an arsehole"- sometimes we just need to get in there and grasp the nettle if you know what I mean

no offense was intended I love you I type before I think sometimes
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PostSubject: Re: Beware Double Speak   Tue Jul 14, 2009 10:33 pm

No offence taken sunny , just checking if my labeling was correct. It's a physical experience right? But the reasons for it can be quite varied no doubt, and I'm with you in that I agree it would be good to examine one's own behavior in the situations that it occurs.
What was interesting to me was the effect this mundane moment generated in me physically. Because the situation was really not threatening, my intellectual self was going, "WOW, that weird, I'm all 'adrenalinized', how odd is that"!! I'm going all analytical in my head, watching myself react to this crazy person, and it sure took a few seconds to navigate the information and come to the conclusion that dude was nuts and it was time to exit stage left.
From an SP angle, it made me realise I need to do some 'surprise nutter' scenario training ..."Not now Kato"! lol!

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PostSubject: Re: Beware Double Speak   Tue Jul 14, 2009 10:46 pm

"Not now Kato you fooool"

"Aiiiiii!"

this is what its like if u ever stay at mine... first thing in the morning

" do you take sugar in coffee? enjoying your toast? I see you like to chew... how about you chew... on my FIST?" insert living room brawl Laughing

the last time I got highly adrenalised to the point where I was shaking was unfortunately quite recent, I was totally gone, I'd lost it, fortunately I didnt find the person I spent most of the day driving around looking for because if I had I KNOW something very, very bad would have happened

but looking back (with the help of my newfound and trusty counsellor what I has hired) I realised that what made me so adrenalised/angry/scared/upset/off kilter/crazy and irrational had nothing to do with violence really, not really, even if it SEEMED that way... it was a deep almost childish sense of injustice... somewhere between joe pesci and the shaky lipped kid who wants to shout "it isnt fair!" before having a tantrum all over someones head before wrapping them in a sheet and sticking them in the trunk- the injustice made me feel indignant and outraged, these are actually pretty dangerous states for me Ive recently learned... these states make me feel motivated and justifed to act violently

not good

which makes me pontificate idly that perhaps many of what we think CONSCIOUSLY as being the reasons and motivating factors to our actions and reactions are just justifcations and bullshit, when what really gets us going is deeper, perhaps rooted in childhood experiences (oooh, move over Freud Wink ) and totally irrational...

and that you want to cut off your fathers penis and have sex with your mum... did I go too far?

yes I think I did drunken

did u know Freud was a coke head?

the naughty irrational monkey... RichB? where are ya?

lol!
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PostSubject: Re: Beware Double Speak   Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:35 pm

"Mine's a Katana on toast, then"! cheers

Quote Richie:
" ...which makes me pontificate idly that perhaps
many of what we think CONSCIOUSLY as being the reasons and motivating
factors to our actions and reactions are just justifcations and
bullshit, ..."

Ain't that the truth. We all got a story line running in our heads all the time about why we do things, and especially justifying things we ain't so proud of." Human nature, innit?

I suspect that is why we spend so much time talking about when and if we SHOULD, and all the times we coulda shoulda woulda ... because on some level we want to be right and justified so we can live with ourselves after.
OTOH a very experience martial arts friend in his 60s now, got car jacked at gunpoint in South America were he lives. There was no chance to do anything, and he says it has been the hardest thing to live with for him because he was powerless, despite all his years of training. Really did his head in for a while.

I also suspect that injustice and unfairness (perceived or real), frustration and shame are the root causes of much violence. I believe there is a book out there where a psychologist talks to male prison inmates about why they committed violent crimes. As I remember it, the common denominator was feeling shame in some form - usually from being belittled by someone . Interesting.

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PostSubject: Re: Beware Double Speak   Wed Jul 15, 2009 10:03 pm

the single greatest human fear...


humiliation


I bought a book once called "the stories we live by" it was about psychotherapy and retelling the stories we tell ourselves and others, the book was wafty but the concept is powerful

everyone has a story, its particulalry interesting listening to the ones people tell about traumatic events, violence, divorce, death of someone close

the more difficult to reality is to process the more "distortion, deletion and generalisation" you hear and the more "trance words" and or jargon and doublespeak get used- surely not a coincidence but an indication of a self protective, if delusional function of the mind

strange to notice when retelling stories of salient events in our lives the switching of roles, the "forgetting" of key elements, even people outright confusing who said what to whom all to fit into an overall stereotype of who we think we are (martyr, warrior, nurturer, baddie, goodie whateva)

and thats the "story we live by"

me? Im not an unnecessarily abrasive manic depressive paranoid control freak... "Im a misunderstood genius, born in the wrong time, yeah?" flower
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PostSubject: Re: Beware Double Speak   Thu Jul 16, 2009 3:47 am

Hey man, I just do what the bunnies tell me. The bunnies are never wrong ... albino albino albino albino albino albino albino albino albino albino albino albino albino albino albino albino albino albino albino

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PostSubject: Re: Beware Double Speak   Thu Jul 16, 2009 11:40 am

maija wrote:
Hey man, I just do what the bunnies tell me. The bunnies are never wrong ... albino albino albino albino albino albino albino albino albino albino albino albino albino albino albino albino albino albino albino

lol!
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