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focusinc



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PostSubject: Question about fights and fears   Mon Jul 13, 2009 10:47 am

I'm worried about hurting someone. I go to the bars a lot and have dealt with a lot of people. I never start fights I'm always out to have a good time. That being said I feel like i'm always at a disadvantage when it comes to fighting. I'm really afraid I'm gonna hurt someone. So when someone gets in my face or touches me I try to deescalate the situation. Watching your videos Richard, I know you think that might be a bad idea to let someone put your hands on you. How do I get over this? Anyone else worried about this? Secondly, I'm also afraid of legal ramifications is there anything i can say or do that will make it so I won't go to jail afterward (without letting the guy punch me first)?
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chulodog

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PostSubject: Re: Question about fights and fears   Mon Jul 13, 2009 4:22 pm

if you affraid of fighting, maby better you try to avoid the situation, i spoke to many people who never had a fight in their live.
so its possible.

and all this people seems to be more happy
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Richard Grannon
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PostSubject: Re: Question about fights and fears   Mon Jul 13, 2009 8:36 pm

focusinc wrote:
I'm worried about hurting someone. I go to the bars a lot and have dealt with a lot of people. I never start fights I'm always out to have a good time. That being said I feel like i'm always at a disadvantage when it comes to fighting. I'm really afraid I'm gonna hurt someone. So when someone gets in my face or touches me I try to deescalate the situation. Watching your videos Richard, I know you think that might be a bad idea to let someone put your hands on you. How do I get over this? Anyone else worried about this? Secondly, I'm also afraid of legal ramifications is there anything i can say or do that will make it so I won't go to jail afterward (without letting the guy punch me first)?

Im not sure I understand the question mate- are you saying your only afraid of fighting because you are only afraid of hurting someone? you arent scared of getting hurt yourself?

like Chulo says many people go through life never fighting, its not that big a deal
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focusinc



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PostSubject: Re: Question about fights and fears   Mon Jul 13, 2009 9:29 pm

No, I'm not afraid of getting hurt. I've played rugby since I was 16 and I'm from the states (I think that's saying something). I'm afraid of hurting/injuring people and/or getting put in jail.
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RichardB



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PostSubject: Re: Question about fights and fears   Mon Jul 13, 2009 9:33 pm

Hmm...

Is it the hurting of others in itself? (I think not)

Or more, the legal minefield, that you fear?

_________________
"I have a high art, I hurt with cruelty those who would damage me." Archirocus, 650 BC
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focusinc



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PostSubject: Re: Question about fights and fears   Mon Jul 13, 2009 9:37 pm

Both, If I hit a guy in a bar because he's invading my personal space (happens alot)... what if he falls on the corner of the table and he's dead. That's the shit I worry about or I palm cap him right on the ear, he loses his hearing.
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Danite



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PostSubject: Re: Question about fights and fears   Mon Jul 13, 2009 9:45 pm

May I ask? Why would you feel the need to maybe hit someone in a bar for invading your space? its a bar and its crowded, usually we need to change our perceptions of personal space according to the situation dont we?As well htting a patron for invading your space in that circumstance would land you in a world of legal trouble I would imagine.
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focusinc



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PostSubject: Re: Question about fights and fears   Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:23 am

I meant it in the most extreme sense. The pre-fight warmup where they bowe up and say they're gonna kick your ass shit like that
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Richard Grannon
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PostSubject: Re: Question about fights and fears   Tue Jul 14, 2009 8:04 am

if someone walks into your space threatening you then your legally covered to use a preemptive strike as long as you genuinely feel your in danger and you dont follow up with a barrage of violence that couldnt be considered "reasonable force"

so legally you are covered

if in protecting yourself you clap an ear and perforate an eardrum (unlikely you would make them permanently deaf) or break a jaw or bust teeth then isnt that just too bad? they started on you, you probably give and recieve more painful, longer lasting injuries playing rugby

so ethically you are covered


... as long as you make every effort to avoid violence, exhaust every other possibility and only use force proportionate to the threat


you should be mindful of getting a jail sentence of course, but dont let excessive worry about it cloud your thinking- you can assume that most of the time if you are behaving lawfully the law will be on your side


oh... and just because you might be bigger and stronger than the average person does NOT mean you dont have the same right to defend yourself as an average sized person (trying to read between the lines of why you might be so worried about this) it just means you need to be careful in the amount of force you deliver- is your size a factor in your worries?
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darktim99

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PostSubject: Re: Question about fights and fears   Tue Jul 14, 2009 8:08 am

the way ive always seen it is this really.

-dont start trouble finish it.
-IF someone has a go they're not bothered about your safety, or life for that matter, so why should you be of theirs?
-once that line has crossed its you or them.
-keep your eyes out for trouble and avoid places that will kick off on the reg.
-IF you have to deal with some one makes sure they know it! AND get away from the area asap

if you played rugby you know that you can take the hits, espec if you beenp laying it for as long as you say. dont worry about it mate if THEY start first then you have a reason to hurt them. sadly coming from the US dont mean your hard lol but still dont let it be drummed into you that if your in a fight you cant do anything in fear of the law. shit they onlt turn up AFTER the kick off has happened!! by that time your glassed or on the floor battered!

also have a word witht the door staff if you really dont want to fight. approach them.

all the best lad
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focusinc



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PostSubject: Re: Question about fights and fears   Tue Jul 14, 2009 8:36 am

I wasn't saying I was hard cause I play rugby. I was saying compared to the status-quo american mentality rugby is a real tough sport. Your considered pretty crazy over in the states hitting someone full contact without pads. I'm the last person to say I'm hard. Yea, Richard I'm a big guy i'm 250 6'0 and i'm built like a brick house (my whole family is). I never look for problems, but I'm confident. I attract a lot of trouble for some reason. I'm a loud guy, but I never insult anyone I just like to have a good time. People hate that! There are so many dudes out there that if your having a great time, they will do everything in their power to bring you down to your level. I won't tolerate that mouthing off to my friends, girlfriend, or just being douches. I don't go up and punch people for it, but I speak out and say something.

Then the "What the fuck did you just say to me?!? comes into play

Then they get all bowed out hand out and start firing themselves up to throw a punch

Then they come at my personal space

I've let guys hit me just so I can say afterward that, "he threw the first punch". I duck my chin into my forhead though and hope they hit my hard head. I just have this fucking mental block that makes me not be able to assert myself in a fight as much as i know I can. How do I get over this? Cause I watched your pyschology video on youtube. I'm nothing like that. Fear swells up my confidence dwindles and then I have to let the guy put his hands on me before I defend himself. It's not that I'm afraid of them, i'm afraid of hurting them!
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Richard Grannon
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PostSubject: Re: Question about fights and fears   Tue Jul 14, 2009 8:52 am

Im just going to put this one out there for you mate...

we'll put it out there, if you dont like it, send it right back Very Happy

Ive got lots of big mates who are into their rugby who have said the same thing to me, they get started on a lot.

I can literally walk through town with them (an example of this happened just a couple of weeks ago in fact) and within 15 minutes they will have had 5 staring contests and one near kick off where I havent even had so much as a glance!

The last time this happened I was walking with a guy 5 stone heavier and half a foot taller than me, he's not long out of jail and has had more scraps than Ive had hot kebabs (many, many I assure you Wink )

You could say "well its Liverpool, land of the kick off merchant" but Im walking right next to him, looking much less "mean" and getting nothing.

so two things I want to swing your way

1. why do you think you are you getting started on so much? do you think in anyway you could be responsible at all for what is happening? or at least contributing?

2. do you think its possible you actually fear confrontation and violence generally (an irrational fear I know but one we all have) and not just that you solely fear "hurting the person"?

sometimes a little step back, honest analysis of the self can work wonders- its tricky for me to really help you without having met you but I'll always give it a go where I can Cool
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focusinc



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PostSubject: Re: Question about fights and fears   Tue Jul 14, 2009 7:20 pm

I have a fear of confrontation and violence. It also has to do with hurting someone. In college I got in a fight and broke a guys knee. He lost his athletic scholarship and couldn't afford school. Felt pretty bad about it. I'd say I do have a fear of confrontation, it sucks and I want to know how to stop it. I don't get in alot of fights though. It's not me i'm pretty self aware of what I do when i'm out.
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chulodog

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PostSubject: Re: Question about fights and fears   Tue Jul 14, 2009 8:09 pm

thats a heavy story focus..

you experienced the pain and problems of the guy you ve hurt the knee.

but if you go out its most of the time a total stranger, you dont care so much for a stranger.

and if you have to fight a guy from work or wathever, dont break his knee again Mad
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Richard Grannon
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PostSubject: Re: Question about fights and fears   Tue Jul 14, 2009 10:08 pm

focusinc wrote:
I have a fear of confrontation and violence. It also has to do with hurting someone. In college I got in a fight and broke a guys knee. He lost his athletic scholarship and couldn't afford school. Felt pretty bad about it. I'd say I do have a fear of confrontation, it sucks and I want to know how to stop it. I don't get in alot of fights though. It's not me i'm pretty self aware of what I do when i'm out.

we're probably about reaching the limits of what I can do for you via the limited medium of a forum mate

but to help you set the context, Im sure you didnt intend to lose the guy his scholarship and if someone starts on you when you have done nothing wrong and you use reasonable force after exhausting every other possible solution then Im sorry but in my book that is the other guys problem

hard to get you into that mindset without meeting you though, but have a think about it

Im sure you are self aware, but are you aware that your mere presence alone can make weak minded people feel threatened? sometimes our sense of social intelligence will set off a radar that lets us know that certain people in the room might need a little ego stroke, a bit of attention, a show of "respect" on your part to keep them sweet.

Sound crazy?

I would rather pretend to make a small trouble avoiding deference to an insecure man now than have to bash sense into him further down the road.

I hope this helps.
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focusinc



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PostSubject: Re: Question about fights and fears   Wed Jul 15, 2009 6:38 am

thanks everyone for the advice, it's all great i appreciate it
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Danite



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PostSubject: Re: Question about fights and fears   Thu Jul 16, 2009 9:15 pm

Thanks for the clarification about the circumstances of someone invading your space.To tell you the truth one reason I dont go out to bars anymore is because our culture has degenerated to such a point, there are alot of people who think violence is funny, like a form of entertainment.maybe it might help if you stayed away from places that mix dummies with alchohol?Alot of guys with complexes and wierd urges see your size and it makes them feel strange about themselves.They figure you are big and "can take it" and so work out their patholigies and neurotic bullshit on your skin.its a wierd world out there.
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1punchko
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PostSubject: Re: Question about fights and fears   Tue Jul 21, 2009 3:03 pm

i was thinking WHY should we have to avoid pubs/clubs with reps for fighting i mean anyone with to much beer in them and wants a ruck with me gets it but i never start them im just out for the beer.
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Richard Grannon
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PostSubject: Re: Question about fights and fears   Tue Jul 21, 2009 3:25 pm

you dont have to mate, but if you choose not to then you have to bear responsibility for the consequences dont you?
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Slag34

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PostSubject: Re: Question about fights and fears   Tue Jul 21, 2009 3:34 pm

Yeah, I always though Geoff Thompson's advice, that the best way to deal with someone looking funny at you in bar is to leave your drink and go to another bar, was a pretty sound idea whether you can hadle yourself or not.
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Danite



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PostSubject: Re: Question about fights and fears   Tue Jul 21, 2009 6:21 pm

1 Punchko,I guess its a case of dont be right be smart.If you being a abig fellow go to places that have reps for being figthing joints then because of your size you are the trophy, the prize to be brought down, so the one who can will then move to the higher levels of that heirarchy.Just starting a fight with you gives them medals.Might I suggest that you try to have alook at yourself from the point of view of those around you and on the basis of their mentalities?Maybe then you might see at what primitve levels youa re being considerd by those in these bars? Why expose yourself to that? maybe find a better class of bar with people who satisfy theri egos in other pursuits and so have no need or desire to attack you? Also keep in mind as this nonsense is ego driven someone might provoke themselves to go to great lengths to take you down.I hope you understand my comments are meant in a friendly helpful way.Why be the punching bag of drunken dregs? Regards
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Danite



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PostSubject: Re: Question about fights and fears   Tue Jul 21, 2009 6:22 pm

stag34, these days if somebody even looks at me wierd in a bar I leave on the spot.
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Slag34

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PostSubject: Re: Question about fights and fears   Tue Jul 21, 2009 10:15 pm

Danite, I'm not suggesting shitting it and doing a runner every time someone looks at you funny....just that, if someone clearly has a problem with you then it's better to leave than wait for him to start on you. I'm sure any decent Self Protection instructor will tell you that the best defence is not getting into a confrontation in the first place.
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Danite



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PostSubject: Re: Question about fights and fears   Wed Jul 22, 2009 2:38 am

Stag34 I couldnt agree with you more.I was over stating the case a bit, but seriouslly speaking,on the rare occasion when there is an "issue" with some one, even if the other guy stands down, I leave.Indeed avoiding violence is the highest and most perfect form of self defence.
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1punchko
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PostSubject: Re: Question about fights and fears   Wed Jul 22, 2009 8:36 am

but how can you sleep at night knowing you left a great pint just cos some drunk dont like my face or football shirt [ i know EGO]
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