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Richard Grannon
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PostSubject: for the weight trainers...   Mon Jul 06, 2009 9:58 am

... if you arent into weight training this post will make your glass eye fall asleep , but if you are into it this will fascinate you Very Happy its not only martial artists that get nerdy, check out some weight lifting forums lol! lol!
anyway

I always thought I had reasonably good form... alas, not so

Saturday just gone I did a training session with a local lad who is a new doorman, recently qualified as a P.T. wants to get into more grappling and striking, sportive stuff (and is training at Paul Rimmer's wicked BJJ class at Elite Martial Arts club in Birkenhead, Lee Charles's gym *plug insert*)

So I said I would roll with him, not to teach him, cause I aint no BJJ instructor, but to give him a few pointers on the basics and give him some flight time on the ground- in return he did me a short version of his usual P.T. weights routine and I got a bit of a shock

Now, I like to train weights, Ive been doing it on and off for 10 years, but Im not "IN" to it like Im in to martial arts, I dont read the forums, watch video clips or buy magaznes hunting for the latest techniques. In short Im pretty lazy in my research.

I thought "good form" meant smooth, not jerky movement, that focuses just on the muscle(s) you are working- which it is, but thats missing a lot

This young chap, who I will ask to post on the forum, made a few changes that borught me to exhaustion faster with lighter weights and fewer reps

sorry if this is old news to you weights heads but its new to me and might be of interest to those getting into strength training:

explosivity on the positive movement, slow movement on the negative (2 to 3 seconds to go through the range of motion) and then "rest" for a full second at the peak of the movement

If you make yourself do it, it kills!! I didnt realise how much I was "bouncing" through the movements!

So if you are doing a bench press, you take it up to arms extended fast and explosively, you bring it slowly down to just above your chest then you "rest" for one full second in that position before exploding back up

Apply that principle to all your movements and tell me if your as sore 48 hours after training as I am right now Razz
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Dark



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PostSubject: Re: for the weight trainers...   Mon Jul 06, 2009 12:43 pm

Yep,that little pause is a great way to punish yourself Twisted Evil !

...another good way to bring on the suffering is the super slow protocol as outlined by Stuart McRobert (google it for more info) Very Happy
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RichardB



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PostSubject: Re: for the weight trainers...   Mon Jul 06, 2009 1:28 pm

Doesn't sound too different from what I'm doing now, I'm already trying to make it work the muscles more, but more explosiveness up and more rest at the bottom might make all the difference... Got to test it properly next time at the gym.

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darktim99

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PostSubject: Re: for the weight trainers...   Sat Jul 11, 2009 11:08 am

its the intensity that you train. if you put the same work ethic that you do from weigths, if you train seriously, to other areas of your training. you do it with more intensity. ive found that out myself. i go to the gym twice a day and it helps me go past the pain barrier soem times helps you to train around musclar pain or even injuries.

its helped me out massively Smile

i always believed you have to be in better shape anyway for the martial arts stuff to work better.
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Richard Grannon
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PostSubject: Re: for the weight trainers...   Tue Jul 14, 2009 8:23 am

RichardB wrote:
Doesn't sound too different from what I'm doing now, I'm already trying to make it work the muscles more, but more explosiveness up and more rest at the bottom might make all the difference... Got to test it properly next time at the gym.

did you get a chance to give it a whirl RB king ?
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RichardB



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PostSubject: Re: for the weight trainers...   Tue Jul 14, 2009 1:28 pm

Not so far. The combination of work, neighbours partying away my sleep, momentarily monged knees and retarded opening hours at the gym is... well it is the universe conspiring against me. Laughing

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Richard Grannon
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PostSubject: Re: for the weight trainers...   Tue Jul 14, 2009 10:11 pm

RichardB wrote:
Not so far. The combination of work, neighbours partying away my sleep, momentarily monged knees and retarded opening hours at the gym is... well it is the universe conspiring against me. Laughing

damn the universe and its dark conspiracies Razz
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D.M.B.

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PostSubject: Re: for the weight trainers...   Sun Jul 26, 2009 3:36 am

Dunno if this has been mentioned either but one thing I recently discovered was 'super sets'. where you perform a set of reps in the opposite motion back to back with no rest in between. This is used as a plateau breaker in weight training.

ie: Do a set of bicept curls, then do tricept pull down, back to back with no rest in between.

Do a set of bench press, then get on the rowing machine, no break in between.

do a set of shoulder press' and then do lat pulldowns, and as always no rest.

Same can be done with the legs....

basically, any motion in the body you perform when weight lifting, you can find an opposite motion to perform back to back sets with to really kill your muscles lol.

There's also some new programs out on 'muscles confusion' that kind of takes this idea and goes further....basically it's always different motions and forms but you never get a chance to rest for like an hour.... flower
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darktim99

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PostSubject: Re: for the weight trainers...   Sun Aug 02, 2009 1:33 pm

you mean super sets? yeah its good to do a superset session once a week.

that said there are different types of weights training.

what kinda training do you do personnaly for you and your "fighting fittness"? sorry this is for everyone. i'd like to see if we train the same or better and indeed help eachother "tweek" our training.
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D.M.B.

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PostSubject: Re: for the weight trainers...   Sun Aug 02, 2009 2:21 pm

darktim99 wrote:
you mean super sets? yeah its good to do a superset session once a week.

that said there are different types of weights training.

what kinda training do you do personnaly for you and your "fighting fittness"? sorry this is for everyone. i'd like to see if we train the same or better and indeed help eachother "tweek" our training.

yeah super sets rock cheers

Personally I like to vary my routine a lot so I don't get bored. Some days I'll just got for heavy weights with few reps, other a light weight with lots of reps, and then maybe even an even lighter weight that I'll do no ste limit of reps with, just until I fail and can't do anymore. This could end up being 30 + reps, but the burn you get is insane. I think this helps with muscle stamina in a fight situation.

I also love running and cycling, and I think endurance is important for me.

Also, core strength. They are billions of core exercises and I think that core strength for me is something that can give me an edge. Lots of different combinations of holding a position and raising your legs or entire body. That being said, pushups are simple yet for me, still effective.

cheers!
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Kiwi CQC



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PostSubject: Re: for the weight trainers...   Tue Aug 04, 2009 1:50 am

Hey guys, just joined up to the blog. I am a CQC trainer here in NZ and a weight-head. We operate our classes from a gym so get the best of both worlds.

The training method I find most useful for growth and strength is DC Training (stands for Dogg Crapp). Look it up on google/youtube. Effectively it is 'rest-pause' sets with really heavy weights after warming up and then extreme stretches. I also throw in low rep (4 reps) high sets (8 sets) of an exercise with explosive push/pull on the positive and a 5 count on the negative. The rest between sets is only 10-12 seconds. This blasts your muscles like nothing else.

I also like super setting with opposing body parts (chest/back etc) when having a week off the DC training.

The other training form I use is crossfit exercises (google this again or go to www.crossfit.com). This builds muscle stamina and explosive (gymnastic) power to go along with the bulk you build up through DC Training. The rest is down to eating enough and getting a heap of protein into the daily diet.
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Richard Grannon
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PostSubject: Re: for the weight trainers...   Tue Aug 04, 2009 8:39 am

Quote :
Effectively it is 'rest-pause' sets with really heavy weights after warming up and then extreme stretches. I also throw in low rep (4 reps) high sets (8 sets) of an exercise with explosive push/pull on the positive and a 5 count on the negative. The rest between sets is only 10-12 seconds. This blasts your muscles like nothing else.

thanks Kiwi, I'll give that a go

there is an introductions thread in the general section mate
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PostSubject: Re: for the weight trainers...   Wed Aug 05, 2009 1:02 am

Hey Rich glad to hear your trainings still moving along. I recently had to do a little physical therapy for a hip/low spine issue and am back at harder physical trainng but I 'm being a little smarter this time by taking my age (49) into consideration and the wear and tear on these bones after thirty some years of training and fighting.

One of the discoveries is keep hip mobility high through drills and also making sure I spend more time on the athletic muscle groups. The athletic muscle groups are basically all the ones you can't see when you stand facing a mirror. These are basically the drivers for most athletic movement, but before I stared on them I did a movement screen to see which ones were not in balance or deficient in general so I didn't build a flawed foundation.

This is crucial for older students, but should be learned by the young so as to prevent future problems developing over a long term training career. I hope some of this information helps some old timers out there and maybe a few youngsters as well.

Keep safe and train hard/smart, Mark H
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Richard Grannon
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PostSubject: Re: for the weight trainers...   Sun Aug 16, 2009 11:08 am

Hey Mark, long time no speak mate, I missed this post before, hope you doin ok and your physical therapy did the job

age 31 and already feeling that I cant just chuck myself into and out of training with former cavalier disregard to warm ups and warm downs, little tears, strains keep popping up which sets back training and is frustrating, forces you to be a bit more preemptive in atttiude towards injury

Kiwi CQC
Quote :
I also throw in low rep (4 reps) high sets (8 sets) of an exercise with explosive push/pull on the positive and a 5 count on the negative. The rest between sets is only 10-12 seconds. This blasts your muscles like nothing else.

liked it, assimilated it, ta! Very Happy
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technics1210

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PostSubject: Re: for the weight trainers...   Fri Sep 11, 2009 8:04 am

Hey guys, can i get a few basics off you? I've heard for "martial arts" based training you do higher reps and lower weight. For bulking it's higher weight and lower reps. Am i right here?

I've also noticed that if i'm dealing with weights that are really too heavy for me i don't get that ache that i usually get with lighter weights for the few days post workout. Mybe it's poor technique (rocking to cope with the weight) or not being able to pump enough reps with the weight. Will i still grow even without the ache? Is the ache a sign of growth? Thanks.
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PostSubject: Re: for the weight trainers...   Sun Sep 13, 2009 12:51 pm

You are right: higher reps of a lighter weight will tone your muscles, while lower reps of a higher weight will add mass.

You should strive to maintain correct form whether it's a high or low rep count. To do this start at a lower weight to begin with and through the course of three or four 'sets', try to find you ceiling, or limit while maintaining correct form.

Maintaining correct form means you're working the intended target muscles, and therefor, going to get a nice 'burn' going during training, which in turn, will give you that ache the next day, and maybe even the day after that. Try to work through this 'ache' the best you can but don't overdo it. If you're just starting out you don't want to injure yourself so if you're still really sore after a days rest start with lighter weights than before. If you're at a local gym and other people are around don't worry that they may notice you lifting lighter weight or whatever, everyone's on a different program and most are only paying attention to themselves in that setting anyways.

You should train every second day if you're doing a full body workout. Your muscles need a good 24 hours to recover (48 to fully recover). 3 times a week is a good number of days for a muscle group.

If you keep this up for 3-4 weeks you'll notice you become less and less sore after work outs, and that you have to up the weights and push yourself harder to feel that burn again... this is good. This is when growth and toning starts to happen.
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PostSubject: Re: for the weight trainers...   Sun Sep 13, 2009 2:53 pm

T1210,
DMB knows his stuff, so i will only add another nuance:

if you're after the bruce-lee build--sure lighter reps
if you're after power, which is often synonamous with speed for it's ability
to blast--don't be afraid of heavy lifting, but learn how to do it safely.
heavier you go, you may hit a muscle group once or twice in a week,
otherwise the 3 day thingy sounds great. also i've found less nonsense
and greater gains from lifts that engage greater muscle groups:
1. bench
2. squats
3. deadlifts
4. incline bench
5. chin-ups/pull-ups
6. dips [weight can be added for gains but watch how your shoulders are dealing with this]
7. loads and loads of sit-ups for tension on your stomach to compensate from all the tension
you'll be putting on your lower back.

etc...
if lifting heavy...think of a light warm up set, several build up sets, and several at a heavier weight
maintaining a 5 to 8 rep range. the easiest way to split it up is lower body twice a week, upper body
twice a week--unless you get all geeky into it, etc....which is fun but takes time and planning.

don't be afraid of heavy lifting--for injury yes, but not for what it will do for your power and speed.
don't believe the hype. i was my most power and explosive when i did the kinds of lifts listed above.

i just happen to believe it's not entirely necessary if you are starting to get injuries and such. now i let the pads dictate my limits for power and speed--and i'm doing well enough that if i'd known years ago
i would have just gone this route and not bothered with the weights at all. something really satisfying about looking slightly more average but hitting like a bull. pads/bags/makiwara...if you train right, can subject your body to the kinds of pressure not unlike weights. i wouldn't trade in a pad work out for a weights one ever...EVER!

okay, now i'm sounding like a fundamentalist pugilist, so i'll back off--DO IT NOW...just kidding lol!

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