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stabproofdom



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PostSubject: Need some advice   Sun Jun 21, 2009 9:14 am

If i am honest with you guys, i have never had a fight or never been in the situation where i have had to, so reading and watching all the stuff on this site makes me think about what to do 'when' not if that day comes.

I have just watched your intro Video on the main page where you say about the bouncers being licenced by the sia have no convictions or cautions, which will end up a bunch of pussies on the door, well i must say unless i sort myself out, i am guoing to be one of them as i have just got my door supervisors licence. I have not done any door work yet.

What would you reccommend i can do or learn to over come this feelin of being a pussy when dealing with confrontation.

Is it possible for to do a training course on / for door staff to deal with confrontation and holds, restraints and general self defence / awarness on he doors.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated

Dom the Rabbit
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Richard Grannon
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PostSubject: Re: Need some advice   Sun Jun 21, 2009 8:21 pm

Hiya Dom

how old are you mate? got any training background? what made you decide to get your SIA badge?
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darktim99

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PostSubject: Re: Need some advice   Mon Jun 22, 2009 6:42 pm

hows it going dom?

iu need to ask why did you get a door lisence if you've NEVER been in a fight? is this something you want to def do? in that case id advise you work out soem kind of training regime that you need to adear to. your fellow door men will train in both conditioning (or at least weights) and some form of martial art,

i;d surjest doing soemthing like boxing classes and a grappling class to go with it. what schools/clubs are in your area? do you train yourself either for fitness or any combat styles?
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Richard Grannon
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PostSubject: Re: Need some advice   Tue Jun 23, 2009 8:39 am

Tim, Im not sure because I cant remember you mentioning it, but have you ever worked a door or got your SIA license?
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stabproofdom



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PostSubject: Re: Need some advice   Wed Jun 24, 2009 8:54 pm

Hey Rich, Hey Tim.

Thanks for taking time to reply, Feel like a right tool even posting such stupid questions.

I am 23 years old and weight bout 92kgs and 6ft1. I go to the gym about 3 - 4 times a week and weight train. I would say i am fairly well built. I used to do kickboxing a few yrs ago for about 9 months, I have had a few months experience in tai boxing (which i thought was the best for offensive) and i have had a few Aikido lessons.

I think my only down fall is my lack of confidence of how i would react if faced with a situation due to not having a fight. A few times on a night out conflict has started and have managed to sort it with words. Which is good in an ideal world, but how will i know how i will react if some1 decides to pick a fight with me, I cant jus go out and think i need to learn to fight so i will start on a random bloke. So not sure what to do to get more confident in that respect.

In regards to having my licence for the doors. Its something i have always wanted to do, enjoy the nightlife scene and i enjoy the aspect of keeping people safe. Its also an extra source of income as i am moving to OZ in Nov.

I know that on the doors you aint allowed to just punch some1 cos they pissin you off, but i understand you can use justerfiable force. But when i did the course there was about 5 mins explaining how to ejject a problem customer. What could i do or learn to feel more confident about being able to escort some1 out or taking them down.

Many thanks in advance guys

Dom What a Face
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darktim99

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PostSubject: Re: Need some advice   Thu Jun 25, 2009 7:28 pm

good stuff dom!

alright rich. no i haven't why you ask?
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stabproofdom



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PostSubject: Re: Need some advice   Thu Jun 25, 2009 9:22 pm

Where can i go from here, then can any1 give me some advice on getting more confidence and where or what can i study to learn some restraints for working the doors.
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Richard Grannon
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PostSubject: Re: Need some advice   Thu Jun 25, 2009 9:56 pm

Hiya Dom

yeah for control and restraint there is a really simple drill I teach new doormen called the "A to B" drill, you can find it on the Control and Restraint for Doormen DVD available from here http://www.streetfightsecrets.com/80.html

Its a really simple drill, dont really know why some variation of it is not taught on the SIA courses, the skillset needed for moving someone who is resisting from one place to another is pretty unique and specific. Anyway, I recommned you get the DVD get a partner and work the drill mate. Very Happy



Tim

reason I asked is because you were giving advice about being a doorman - now everyone is entitled to an opinion, but be careful giving advice about things you havent actually done, ok lar?

Quote :
iu need to ask why did you get a door lisence if you've NEVER been in a fight?


Dom/ Tim

not everyone who gets their SIA license has been in a fight and I dont think its a prerequisite for the job, a cool head, good people skills and the ability to assert yourself are though.
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maija
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PostSubject: Re: Need some advice   Thu Jun 25, 2009 10:17 pm

Seems to me that the whole point of why training exists, is to have a way to get better at something you don't know how to do yet!
You start with not knowing, you suck, you train, you get better, you suck again, you train more, you get mo' better ....
I was going to recommend some of Richie's material, but I just noticed that Richie added the links already.
Big help would be to get a training partner to practice with, as Richie pointed out. It's all well and good going to class - and you should keep going for many reasons, but scenario stuff more specific to your chosen profession, especially if you are trying to learn from DVDs, is only really possible with some one else to try things out on.

Honestly door work does not sound like my idea of a good time ... dealing with coked up, drunken idiots and their mates ..... but hey, that's just me.
Good luck!

_________________
"It will be difficult at first, but then everything is difficult at first". Miyamoto Musashi
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darktim99

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PostSubject: Re: Need some advice   Sat Jun 27, 2009 8:15 pm

to be honest im quite offended by that. i dont have a license dont mean i aint been on any doors (noty many actually) STILL this thread was started by some one ASKING for advise. advise was given.
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Sharif H



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PostSubject: Re: Need some advice   Thu Jul 02, 2009 10:41 am

Hi Dom

As well as Richard's material, I also VERY HIGHLY recommend two books that I would suggest you read before starting on the door. They are...

WATCH MY BACK by Geoff Thompson

and

SAFE ON THE DOOR by Lee Morrison


I'm sure Richard would also give a massive thumbs-up to these books as they cover a lot of the 'psychological warfare' that is specific to door work.
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Richard Grannon
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PostSubject: Re: Need some advice   Thu Jul 02, 2009 2:46 pm

Richard Grannon wrote:
Tim, Im not sure because I cant remember you mentioning it, but have you ever worked a door or got your SIA license?

Tim, I did ask if you had worked a door and you said "no".

Quote :
STILL this thread was started by some one ASKING for advise. advise was given.

With respect if you havent worked doors you arent in a position to advise people about doing doorwork. Nothing to get offended about.

Tacpro
I found "watch my back" inspirational when I was younger, I havent read Lee's book but he is a thorough and clear trainer and I dont doubt it is good training material.
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stabproofdom



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PostSubject: Re: Need some advice   Fri Jul 03, 2009 10:30 am

Thanks for all the comments, i have jus ordered the DVD, look forward to watchin it.

I will look around for those books as they seem like good material.
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Richard Grannon
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PostSubject: Re: Need some advice   Fri Jul 03, 2009 10:35 am

Got your order mate will post the DVD out today Very Happy
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darktim99

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PostSubject: Re: Need some advice   Sat Jul 04, 2009 3:40 pm

i honestly think you got all this stuff wrong rich and i dont think its fair mate that you would openly override anything that you consider as "giving advise without experience". SO what i dont have a liscense for door work. SO what?! does that mean i dont know how to deal with violence or even to stop it BEFORE it starts? you dont HAVE to be a "pro" on the door to know about anything like that.
dont you think its like all these sad knife disarmas that martial arts clubs and schools are teaching all up and down the uk and indeed the whole world. and in reality you try that and your getting sliced up. but still using your logic if i dont know any then i cant deal with it. that the way i see it and indeed the way this has been addressed. im actually quite annoyed about this whole thing. at the end of the day HOW DOES ANYBODY HERE 'KNOW' THAT ANYBODY CAN DO ANYTHING THEY SAY THEY CAN? how do we know? aint this like the BOB SPOUR thing again? who says that me, you or ANY of the regulars here are even trainind in anything? how do i know your an ex-doorman? how do people know ive won a belt in kickboxing and numerous medals in grappling? they dont, only till i tell them.

but this is my point. i DONT lie. bob did and look whats happening to him now!! so when I saw IVE done something or IVE found away that I have found that helps me do something and then some one ASKS for advise, what you think im going to do? doesnt mean my advise is anything different to yours or anybody else on here.

LOL "watch my back" by geoff thompson?! oh yeah read that and your a door man! LOL er yeah i think we ALL have a copy of that book floating around, and ive just finished mine. so does that still mean i dont know what im talking about? seeing that the advise I gave was constructive and others have gone "read 'watch my bak'" oh yeah i think thats really fair. dont you?!


my apologise for the rant and being direct. but i just hate being talked down to when im only seriously trying to offer help.

again apologise for any offence
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Richard Grannon
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PostSubject: Re: Need some advice   Sat Jul 04, 2009 4:09 pm

well this is a forum a place where people can exchange ideas freely- and unfortunately, whether you like or not that includes me, I will assert my right to give my opinion on this issue to you, which I have

you clearly dont like it, but I think you are starting to lose perspective so lets back track just so we are clear:

I dont think you should give people advice about an actual job and all it entails without having done it, its a job mate, not a theory of movement

if someone is asking your opinion about knife defence (this is the example you have given) or how best to deal with a clinch or something else then that is a matter of OPINION and you should feel free to jump right in

Quote :
at the end of the day HOW DOES ANYBODY HERE 'KNOW' THAT ANYBODY CAN DO ANYTHING THEY SAY THEY CAN? how do we know? aint this like the BOB SPOUR thing again? who says that me, you or ANY of the regulars here are even trainind in anything? how do i know your an ex-doorman?

allow me to answer that question specifically:

one way of knowing is by the quality of answers given on the forum.

your answer, let me remind you, included this little gem of wisdom:

Quote :
why would you even thinking about getting a badge without ever having been in a fight?

which assumes that somone who hasnt been in a fight shouldnt get a doorbadge. Utter bollocks. In the context of giving somone advice it was misleading and unhelpful so I stepped in and called you on it.

Your reaction is overly defensive and not reflective of one of the main attributes required by doorwork: a good thick skin

Quote :
but this is my point. i DONT lie. bob did and look whats happening to him now!! so when I saw IVE done something or IVE found away that I have found that helps me do something and then some one ASKS for advise, what you think im going to do? doesnt mean my advise is anything different to yours or anybody else on here.

a. way to go shoehorning the Bob Spour issue into a totally unrelated thread, sadly for you it reflects badly on your character and hampers rather than helps your argument

b. your reply shows appalling naivete. of course your "advice" isnt "advice" its an "opinion" and of course your advice is different to others on here because you havent actually done the job being asked about... where others have chosen to say nothing

Tim, Im thinking of reapplying to join the Army have you got any advice for me mate?

Quote :
LOL "watch my back" by geoff thompson?! oh yeah read that and your a door man! LOL er yeah i think we ALL have a copy of that book floating around, and ive just finished mine. so does that still mean i dont know what im talking about?

what?

that doesnt even make sense.

Get a grip of yourself man.

Very Happy
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darktim99

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PostSubject: Re: Need some advice   Sat Jul 04, 2009 5:23 pm

nah your right. when i was writing that i was thinking "this is so petty and unlike me". and it was and still is. one of my pet hates is being petty funnily enough.

i think to be honest the points i were making came across wrong and indeed misleading. i know what i mean Smile but havent made it clear. maybe it would be what 'I' would do if i wanted to pursue the door as a job.

i know, i knw i need to get a grip i woke up today (well kinda i was in a half sleep. but i've not slept proper for 2 weeks due tot he heat. ) and was in an arsey mood.

im not niave, dumb or petty so im not sure why i allowwed myself to be. so for that i apologise.

hope this doesnt hold moi in disrepute.

and at the end of the day i know what im doing just need work on puttign that across LOL.
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Richard Grannon
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PostSubject: Re: Need some advice   Sun Jul 05, 2009 5:30 pm

its a forum, not the best method of communication, especially when advising people about self protection or working in the security industry

I've been asked this one quite a few times recently "I want to be a doorman, any advice?"- beyond saying find out as much as you can about the job, prepare as best you can physically and mentally for loads of verbal confrontation, assertiveness and the occassional short burst of violence there isnt much more to be said.

With doorwork, you learn as you go. A good firm will put a new person on a door with a load of experienced lads to give them time to learn.
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