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 Any material to diffuse arguments before they turn physical

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technics1210

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PostSubject: Any material to diffuse arguments before they turn physical   Wed Apr 02, 2008 9:55 am

Hi, i'm after information to resolve and maybe win the odd argument or two. I dont really like to argue so people tend to take this as a sign of weakness, so they take the piss. Trouble is if they keep going i turn it physical and the alway say"what was that for", "i did nothing wrong".

I cant keep this attitude as i'll lose current job, friends etc. Anyone know any material, thanks.
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Sergei

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PostSubject: Re: Any material to diffuse arguments before they turn physical   Wed Apr 02, 2008 12:51 pm

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Last edited by Sergei on Tue Apr 22, 2008 9:29 pm; edited 1 time in total
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chris norris



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PostSubject: Re: Any material to diffuse arguments before they turn physical   Thu Apr 03, 2008 2:30 am

i have same problem im no good with my mouth and always seem to get the piss taken out of me even the blokes i work with on site have picked up on it including the younger apprentices iv tried just to keep quiet and its worked untill now i just tell myself "if i hit them im going to hurt them so what would be the point." is that any good

chris
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Richard Grannon
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PostSubject: Re: Any material to diffuse arguments before they turn physical   Thu Apr 03, 2008 9:54 am

Hi Technics

yeah, that seems to be a common problem amongst people involved in the martial arts they can do no confrontation mode or fighting mode but miss out a whole field of communication that exist in the grey area

You can train yourself out of it, but I have to admit sometimes even I get a sweat on if I have to tell someone to turn music down, stop swearing in front of kids etc

probably because it opens up the possibilty of some humiliation of the precious little ego!

The thing is, if the non physical confrontation muscle gets flabby and atrophied from lack of use you get "push over tough guy" syndrome... think of Mike Tyson, couldnt say NO to his "mates" and got ripped off every which way.
I know also of doormen who are "hard as a 10 bastards" but get bullied by their wives/ girlfriends.

Yeah I will do a CD on this topic next. There is a certain cross section of society very close to home who are perfect for modelling this kind of psychological warfare- a fantastic resource we all have right under our noses Razz

Chris
Quote :
now i just tell myself "if i hit them im going to hurt them so what would be the point." is that any good

No it isnt, because your still upset by it but not saying anything, unexpressed emotion that is locked in can manifest as a whole range of mental and physical problems... you always feel better if you say something. You just need to train yourself to know what to say and how to say it.
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Ben



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PostSubject: Re: Any material to diffuse arguments before they turn physical   Thu Apr 03, 2008 10:47 am

I also have a problem with arguing, I never know what to say and if I ever do say anything back, usually end up making a fool of myself, or at least thats how I feel after I've said it. I have been getting better at it though by just speaking up more often. I find the more you speak up about something that is bothering you, for example asking someone to turn their music down, or standing up to someone that it taking the piss out of you, then the more comfortable you become with confrontation and the easier it is to find the right things to say.
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RichardB



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PostSubject: Re: Any material to diffuse arguments before they turn physical   Thu Apr 03, 2008 11:59 am

This must be more common that I previously thought. I'm like that. Basically completely on or off, no in-between. I'll get that CD for sure.
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technics1210

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PostSubject: Re: Any material to diffuse arguments before they turn physical   Sat Apr 05, 2008 3:41 pm

Vey much looking forward to the release of that cd!! Very Happy
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USMarine

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PostSubject: Same Problem   Wed Apr 09, 2008 4:52 pm

A bit about me, I spent 4 years in the US Marines and I am currently a State Prison Guard here in Pennsylvania. My work assignment is the restricted housing unit or the "hole" I can fight, In the marines I was taught LINE fighting or Linear Involuntary Neurologic Engagement...

I know how to fight, but here's my problem. I let things get way out of control before I do anything about it. Not at the Prison, I tell the fucking inmates to eat a bag a dicks and I roll. My problem is strictly in my personal life. Example: A bunch of us from work were out one night getting drunk. One of the guys I worked worked (he left the hole and doesn't work with me anymore) stepped to me and I didn't bitch up but I did walk away...that was 4 months ago and it still bothers me.. That dude was loaded, I was still sober and I know I could have destroyed him.... I tend to let people run their mouths and I walk away. What's happening now is, I am beginning to doubt my effectiveness in a fight. Like I said, 9 times out of 10 I'll walk away and then be fucked up in the head for weeks or months afterward.
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AdamM



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PostSubject: Re: Any material to diffuse arguments before they turn physical   Wed Apr 09, 2008 7:03 pm

If you're as dangerous a dude as you sound, I'd say you're doing the right thing.

With your skill level I would think you could do serious damage to someone and you can't go full bore just because someone is getting mouthy with you.

Take Richies mate, Bob Spour. If I were stupid enough (and I'm not) to have too much to drink and square up to him, I would expect him to tell me to shut the fuck up and, at worst give me a slap. He'd be prefectly capable of grabbing hold of me and snapping my neck, but that'd be disproportionate.

Takes the bigger man to walk away and let a few aggressive words go.

welcome to the site by the way
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Richard Grannon
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PostSubject: Re: Any material to diffuse arguments before they turn physical   Thu Apr 10, 2008 11:24 am

whats the difference between a jail and a prison?

btw Sergei, I know you have your reasons, but I did invite USM to the forum Very Happy
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VictorS

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PostSubject: Re: Any material to diffuse arguments before they turn physical   Thu Apr 10, 2008 2:36 pm

Richard Grannon wrote:
whats the difference between a jail and a prison?Very Happy

Lube vs. No Lube? Just guessing... affraid Shocked Laughing

To USMarine - Semper Fi, bro!


Victor S
USMC 1986-1990
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USMarine

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PostSubject: Re: Any material to diffuse arguments before they turn physical   Thu Apr 10, 2008 4:38 pm

Richie, here in the states, Counties and townships have jails. I work for the state, we and the feds have prisons. If I had good guess it would be the size/capacity of the unit. We currently house about 2400 inmates in the jail and our RHU is full with 123 inmates (as of yesterday)

VictorS, Semper Fi, right back!
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Ben



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PostSubject: Re: Any material to diffuse arguments before they turn physical   Thu Apr 10, 2008 5:32 pm

USMarine wrote:
I know how to fight, but here's my problem. I let things get way out of control before I do anything about it. Not at the Prison, I tell the fucking inmates to eat a bag a dicks and I roll. My problem is strictly in my personal life. Example: A bunch of us from work were out one night getting drunk. One of the guys I worked worked (he left the hole and doesn't work with me anymore) stepped to me and I didn't bitch up but I did walk away...that was 4 months ago and it still bothers me.. That dude was loaded, I was still sober and I know I could have destroyed him.... I tend to let people run their mouths and I walk away. What's happening now is, I am beginning to doubt my effectiveness in a fight. Like I said, 9 times out of 10 I'll walk away and then be fucked up in the head for weeks or months afterward.

These are also my problems. The thing is, I know if I commited 100% and really went for it, I would have beaten most of the people I have let walk all over me, and that is the most annoying part of it, knowing that I have it in me, but not having a clue why I can't seem to stand up for myself when needed most.

Also when you said you begin to doubt your effectiveness in a fight, I kind of have the same problem but I don't doubt my ability as much, but more that when it comes to a fight, I wonder wether or not im going to freeze up, or will I have the confidence to say or do the right thing etc or will I let them walk over me again. I think this is what my problem is anyway, im kind of still trying to figure out what my problem is.
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Sergei

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PostSubject: Re: Any material to diffuse arguments before they turn physical   Thu Apr 10, 2008 6:13 pm

~


Last edited by Sergei on Tue Apr 22, 2008 9:29 pm; edited 1 time in total
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AdamM



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PostSubject: Re: Any material to diffuse arguments before they turn physical   Thu Apr 10, 2008 8:20 pm

over here, jail and prison are two words for the same thing.

seperated by a common language Smile
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Richard Grannon
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PostSubject: Re: Any material to diffuse arguments before they turn physical   Fri Apr 11, 2008 9:02 pm

ok thanks for the answers guys... the cds on dealing with verbal conflict will be released over the weekend and hopefully something in there will help with these issues.
Ive particularly focussed on dealing with serial bullying mentalities from a defensive point of view and will look at more offensive psychological tactics after Ive got through my work load from this week.
Hope this stuff helps...

I've got to be honest I find the American Penal System Culture very interesting but its something I know nothing about other than from watching a few documentaries... it seems like its very gang orientated and those gangs seem pretty well organised. Anywhere I can find find out more info?
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VictorS

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PostSubject: Re: Any material to diffuse arguments before they turn physical   Fri Apr 11, 2008 9:48 pm

Richard,
Here's a link to the History channel in the US. They've been running a series entitled Gangland that is a good start....

http://www.history.com/minisites/gangland



Cheers,

Victor
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Sergei

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PostSubject: Re: Any material to diffuse arguments before they turn physical   Sat Apr 12, 2008 8:05 am

~


Last edited by Sergei on Tue Apr 22, 2008 9:30 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Matt



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PostSubject: Re: Any material to diffuse arguments before they turn physical   Wed Apr 16, 2008 1:09 am

I think the real struggle is detatching from ego, and pride. That's been a hard thing over the years for me.

After all, it's in us genetically to react to another male "puffing up" and doing the whole "I'm the Alpha Male, and I'm going to dominate you and make you look weak in front of others" thing. Especially if it is when we're with a girlfriend or wife, or a group of friends in a social setting. It's almost magnetic in how that can draw us into a scrap.

Having someone (as Richard and Bob say in the U.K.) "take the piss out of you" is not an easy thing to allow. It stings the pride, and can make you feel as if you're somehow less of a man by walking away and not engaging them. You can let yourself feel like a coward if you allow yourself ( or others watching ) to.

Granted, I'm not saying allow anyone to lay hands on you! I have my "trigger" set, (personal safety zone) and if someone touches it I have no choice but to go physical. But, if it hasn't reached that level I try my best to not let it escalate to that level. Either by "barking back", and letting them know ant consider that I'm not someone to be messed with, or just walking away from it.

In my mind that makes me even more dangerous if it does kick off due to the other guy persisting, or following me as I walk off. I've given him every opportunity to let it go and end it. If he's stupid enough to not let it end there, my reaction will make him think and most importantly, feel that he's jumped into a cage full of tigers.

I know from my past experiences ( and there arent all that many where I've actually gone physical ) ) that there are some guys that are just looking for a scrap. Either for status reasons, pride, drunkenness, drugs, something going on in their lives, or just because for some reason they just don't like the cut of your coat. 95% of them that I have come across can be dealt with by either letting the bastard know you'll mash him if he starts, or better yet just walking off. There have beeen many times I've just wanted to demolish them, but not doing so has kept me out of jail more often than not.
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Matt



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PostSubject: Re: Any material to diffuse arguments before they turn physical   Wed Apr 16, 2008 1:17 am

Um Sergei, let me get this correctly...

You are posting a tribute to a fallen member of a drug cartel? One that's killing people on the border of mexico and Texas?

Is that right? I just want to make sure I'm not misunderstanding what you posted..
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Shaun



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PostSubject: My Problem Too!   Thu Apr 17, 2008 1:30 pm

I'm 6ft 4 , 16 stones, a natural athlete and was born to fight. I come from a long line of street fighters and pro boxers. I was raised in institutions and went through D C and the British penal system. After prison i continued working as a bouncer , which, i did until they changed the law about ex cons working the doors. I had worked the doors since i was 14 years old , on and off. I served in the Light Infantry also. My point is , people in the fight game call me "one hard bastard"; i have never lost a fight -one on one or against multiple assailants. I am renowned for lightening speed and punching power. ONLY I DON'T KNOW HOW TO ARGUE MY CASE!!!!!!!
I will debate with anyone and never contemplate hitting,win or loose the arguement. What i can't do is argue with arseholes who become abusive. I just start bronco kicking them into the floor after breaking their jaws. Then the coppers come and it starts all over again. Only i hate hitting them because they are great blokes and it isn't their fault.
I promised my wife that i won't go back inside and leave her alone with breast cancer, so i avoid little twerps like the plague, but, i hate it . I walk the streets at night and avoid people. Only thing is trouble eventually comes and we are never prepared.
A couple of years ago, some young chaps in their 20's were walking down the road and i was holding my dog-middle of the night, as well. The biggest, a total amateur was positioning himself for a pre-emptive, only silly sod looked at my chin. I slapped him out but he flew through a wind shield and was in a coma for two weeks. His silly mates fled, after i offered them some sport. POint is -it always ends up physical in this world today. I WANT TO LIVE A LIFE WHERE I NEVER HIT ANOTHER MAN AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!! Until Jesus comes again, that is not going to be. RICHIE< YOU ARE A SMART LAD-HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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cal8116

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PostSubject: Re: Any material to diffuse arguments before they turn physical   Thu Apr 17, 2008 4:44 pm

wear those handcuffs that go from your hands to your feet? either that or glue ur hand to ur cock then you wont consider ''knocking somone through a car windshield''... also if somone was planning to '' pre emptivly strike'' that would surgest you were going to strike them hence it being 'pre' - 'emptive' , as for never losing a fight... maybe you need to, it might strip off some of that ego. you came from a long line of fighters eh? but you say you were brought up in institutions? how would you know that then? i mean i guess its possible but is it probable? if your fore fathers were fighters it doesnt make you a fighter, it might make you an agressive lout or more prown to addictive behavior but fighting is somthing learned and taught... altho i could be totally wrong *sits in the corner pondering*
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Richard Grannon
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PostSubject: Re: Any material to diffuse arguments before they turn physical   Thu Apr 17, 2008 8:56 pm

2 nd cd now available

http://www.streetfightsecrets.com/newrelease.html
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thugsage
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PostSubject: Re: Any material to diffuse arguments before they turn physical   Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:12 pm

how to verbally diffuse...not sure about the street, but if i used my work
language--and i probably should, i have resorted to saying, "we're done
sharing" before i look away and leave any future escalations to them. i'm not sure that's very zen. it's still has a few egotistical safe-guards attatched. i think i heard the line on t.v. and liked it ever since. saying this is helping me own it outside of work though.
as for someone butting in line or something, too awkward for me.
-Rus
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Shaun



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PostSubject: Re: Any material to diffuse arguments before they turn physical   Fri May 23, 2008 4:57 pm

Russell Sage wrote:
how to verbally diffuse...not sure about the street, but if i used my work
language--and i probably should, i have resorted to saying, "we're done
sharing" before i look away and leave any future escalations to them. i'm not sure that's very zen. it's still has a few egotistical safe-guards attatched. i think i heard the line on t.v. and liked it ever since. saying this is helping me own it outside of work though.
as for someone butting in line or something, too awkward for me.
-Rus

Cheers mate!Ill try that!
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