tin foil hats and swine flu

Im really tempted to have a whole section of the forum called "tin foil hats" into which people can spew their most paranoid fantasies without fear of repurcussion or mockery coz I know y'all are as paranoid and militia ready as I am

tin foil coated thought for the day:

is swine flu a cunning illuminati contrived distraction from the economic crisis to keep the slaves from organised revolt?

is it the pandemic solution to an overpopulated world (you know the secret masters dont think there should be this many sheep in the pen, right?) ?

is it all a bit of controlled explosion to confuse, distract and frighten us into submission?

You know, the same nutty thought crossed my mind too. I used to think about this type of stuff. Although most of the conspiracy theories seem downright psychotic, and probably are, stuff like nazi Germany and the Soviet union has happened and can happen again. And they're bad things that would affect me adversely. So I did think about it. But nowadays I limit myself to stuff I can do something about. If I can't solve a problem then there's no sense in thinking about it. It's neither fun nor psychologically healthy. If there is a credible candidate to the "illuminati" title, it's too formless to even target properly, let alone break down decisively. Functionally, an organization is a social machine, it has certain needs and ways of functioning. When you understand their structure you've got your strategy for tearing the machine apart. But with no target there's nothing to think about.

There's something else about the illuminati though. Most of the illuminati and new world order talk sounds seriously delusional. We're talking paranoid schizophrenia here. And most of the information seems to just gloss over the tangible factors and players, focusing instead on UFO's, christianity and satanism, not to mention the CIA. True tinfoil hat stuff. And everything large (logistically extremely complex) is orchestrated by the illuminati for fun and jest, as well as to achieve some psychological goal among people who are utterly clueless to begin with. No coincidences... Everything is neat, orderly and explained. Too fucking neat if you ask me. It smells of human reasoning. And by reasoning I mean assumptions and hunches based on the distorted, deleted, generalized and royally warped fantasy we call reality. We know no more about the reality of things than our psychological limitations allow. We do pretty well with perceptible facts, but the moment we go beyond that, those explanations our minds come up with can not be trusted. That's how superstitions of all sorts form. And they can wander off into lala land at the very first wrong idea in that process of theorizing, not to mention what happens when people really sit down and "think" about it.

Back in the day, the devil used to be the simple explanation for all the worlds ills. But most people can't really fool themselves into believing that shit anymore. Still, we're the the same ape as before and that primate mind wants a simple explanation. People who have that need to order things may try to rationalize by theorizing that gods and devils aren't really real like people, but maybe more like subatomic energy stuff, or whatever, something semi-compatible with this day and age, but it still doesen't work too well. But a secret evil organization ties it all up very nice. Like I said in a previous post. It has sufficient credibility and is sufficiently unverifiable for our minds to use it. Joe normal can use it, religious Joe can too, atheistic Joe and whoever. Personally I think the illuminati is a fairly recent meme, which has become the present day version of the medieval devil.

It would just be laughable if it didn't also mask the real conspiring power players behind the satanic babyraper aliens shit. Which is why conspiracy theories are synonymous with paranoid delusions in popular culture. Of course that public perception is also orchestrated by the illuminati...

It's what they want you to believe.

(and when they inevitably end up in the funny farm, it's because they know too much, they're a threat. It all fits... )

But seriously, essential resources, core influence over society and so on is where shit goes down. Currently that is money and politics... Which happens to attract the power hungry type of people. Along with downright sociopathic and narcissistic people. That, and generic human nature stuff leads to small clusters of them commiting various forms of white collar crime all over the place. I'm pretty sure that where these types see an opportunity for taking more power, they go for it. Those guys are who you need to look out for. And these guys seem to focus on tangibles more than psychological stuff. Control, monopolies, etc.

And coming down from the superhumanly organized illuminati. I think the world is significantly more fractured and chaotic than people think. Lots of people are trying to take control. But no one is really in control. There's no leader. Instead there are billions of wills acting in self-interest. With whatever level of influence they are able to perform at. Being driven primarily by fear and greed. So look at the swine flu scare in that context. News organizations aren't really about news. That is the product they're selling. But what they're actually selling through that product is fear. Bottom line. It is business, pure and simple. Sell and live, or go out of business. We are biologically biased to pay attention to things that could be bad for us. Good news don't sell.

So they preach doomsday. SARS, bird flu, and now swine flu. Global warming, no cooling, no warming, no, uh... credit crisis! WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE!!!

But how many people have actually died? what kind of health were they in to begin with? For some reason I don't take the thing very seriously... Meanwhile everyone's busy working each other into a frenzy. Mostly being memetically influenced by other people's fear. There's not necessarily a lot of factual reasoning going on.

There are almost certainly a shitload of underhanded manipulation being done by individuals and smaller groupings for vanity and power, but humanity is like a retarded kid with a roll of duct tape. We don't need any stinking help to tie ourselves up in a tangle. We are perfectly capable of doing that on our own. The majority of the problems we face are problems we've created, being an ape with delusions of intellect and all that.

good post rich b. riddick... its 2 in the morning and I still havent finished work... on a whim I just googled the question "is swine flu more lethal than normal flu?"

here is a resulting article from Peter Palese, the chairman of the department of microbiology at the Mount Sinai School of Medicine in New York

called "why swine flu isnt so scary"

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124122223484879119.html

face masks sales are up... Im awaiting the military to roll down my street with a loudspeaker telling us to line up for forced vaccinations at gun point

Rich B, you should take a look at Robert Anton Wilsons view of the usage of the term "Illuminati"- the idea of one big group in total power is actually quite childlike and as much as the true tin foil hatters rail against it, it actually provides some comfort I suspect: it means SOMEONE is in charge- so as you say, isnt that different from a religious faith based belief in some "higher authority"

to use your beloved ape theme... the primitive monkey mind would rather believe in an evil and slightly frightening power structure than totally terrifying chaos

anyway the "chaos" reality tunnel puts the onus of responsibility back on the individual, where the fatalism of submitting to "big brothers" will is much less challenging

I have noticed many die hard tin foil hatters are actually quite negligent, irresponsible and immature- could be a coincidence or my own perceptual filters
but is the NWO/illuminati not a good excuse for not facing the reality of ones own shortcomings?

"why try? the world is ending in 2012 isnt it?"

time for bed

http://www.moviesfoundonline.com/power_of_nightmares.php

watch from 53 minutes in

There's that duct tape retard again. Sneaky deception becomes delusion and progresses to full blown clusterfuck. Seriously, all these large scale political and... generally human events should be played with Benny Hill music in the background.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spz8_rpE0e0

The world's a crazy place, you'd better have a sense of humor. Lest thou go bashit insane.

BTW this important scholarly dissertation details what exactly is going on with things like that "communati" theory.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/315191/Basic-Laws-of-Human-Stupidity

I think you're right about the link between slobness and conspiracy theorism. I've got the same impression. They're kind of like hippies in a way. Or at least my stereotypical impression of them. A bunch of people who generally don't have their shit together who mostly concern themselves with rebelling against "the man" and anything else that goes counter to the current mainstream message. The great satan provides meaning and order.

Conspiracy theory stuff based on mind reading and fear is best avoided. As long as people can back up their claims with evidence it's something else.

good points

if there is verifiable evidence, its not really a conspiracy "theory" anymore ( said Richie while coughing words behind his hand: " industrial grade thermite "- "who said that?"- "not me guv I was just coughing")

usually what happens is someone questions or denies the official version of events which is an intelligent and responsible thing to do but they then insert their favourite bogeyman "conspiracy theory" and piss in the punch and make themselves and everyone associated with them look like nutters

so in that sense Im interested in Offical Story Questioning but I hate "Conspiracy Theories"- they are based on minimal facts, plenty of logical leaps, a big dose of pure agenda topped with prejudice

Why are we so scared to say "I dont know" and just leave it at that?

then you get more complex things like official stories which are in themselves effectively "conspiracy theories" - like 9/11 and 7/7- do we believe in the shadowy ninja network called Al Quada which is out there right now plotting to get us? I am not convinced at all, but I think its important to be able to question a story without inserting some other answer.

Muslim Extremists? Yes. One cogent network of suicidal assassins? Er... No.
Old School Networks and Boys clubs in a big money making circle jerk? Yes. One big club? No.

The so called "Truth Movement" has really given itself a lot of slack so far with verifying the veracity of some of its claims. Even more frustratingly some of them smugly repeat each others crap with the condescending tone of that fat comic shop owner from the simpsons. Nerdy hippies.



But that is because they all secretly work for MI5 to make sure "official story questioners" get pigeonholed with "conspiracy theorists" who are all "frothing paranoid nutbags who dont check their facts properly in their haste to spin a yarn" in a covert counterintelligence operation called "Punch Pisser"

Im kidding, that would be going too far...

My favourite quote from that "Power of Nightmares" episode was from the CIA guy (paraphrasing): "We knew there wasnt a Communist conspiracy because WE made it up, but he wouldnt let it go even after we told him it was us!"

Taking the term "pet theory" to a whole new level of dumb.

Well, true evidence might be too tall an order, true. But at least a solid logical argument, based on the reality tunnel that most sane people consider accurate. (Might not be perfect, but it's the best we have) Greg Palast for instance seems pretty good at that. Using as much evidence as is available, but perhaps more importantly. Refraining from theorizing too much beyond the information so far collected. The moment someone breaks out the illuminati or begins intertwining it with religion and aliens... well let's just say we're not in Kansas anymore.

The 9/11 thermite and airplanes "vaporized in the explosion" appear extremely suspicious to me. Not to mention that excercise scenarios were being run for the exact same event at the exact same time. Wasn't that the case with 7/7 as well? That just sounds too outrageous. And wasn't there an American plan to use a plane to hit the WTC, for the purpose of siccing the people on an enemy, way back? All I know is it stinks. Someone farted! I don't know who specifically but it reeks. That was a bad fart... Of that I am certain.

Apropos of that... Feeling certain about something is no indicator of something being true. It is an emotion. It's basically some form of liking. As with the deluded pet theory guy from the video you posted. He liked it, wouldn't let it go and he felt certain. Certainty without verification is only a cognitive bias. It's dangerous that way, especially scinse people seem to have a strong urge to feel certain, whether or nor they have grounds for it. So it's real common. The feeling of certainty about something that can't be truly known there and then should be treated as a warning signal that the thinking is biased.

"NO! don't you see? That's what I want me to believe!"

Conspiracy theory... Technically the vast majority of them do not qualify as theories, in scientific lingo. They're hypotheses at best. But a hypothesis must be testable somehow. So most of that stuff is not even that. It would be wise to try keeping all reasoning as close to the scientific process as is possible outside of laboratory conditions. Most of the conspiracy theories seem to come down to allegations based on fear and suspicion. And I think jealousy too. The downright hate some people pour out at the TV screen when they see someone wealthy or in some leading position is both amusing and strange. I believe it is the suits and titles that do it. Same principle as with ethnicity and racism. "ALL people in suits are parasitic scum." and "ALL generically brownish people are criminals and terrorists." Maybe that's another factor in how conspiracy theories satisfy some need in people. Then again sometimes the hate and disgust is appropriate.

Government secret stuff along with business and political white collar crime is probably the areas where 99% of conspiracy theories come from. And all the independent happenings from each along with personal delusions are what typically seems to end up as the average conspiracy theory. When the US military tested the B2 bomber, which has an odd shape for a plane, they got a rash of UFO sighting calls. And there's probably a lot of odd stuff being experimented with. Some good, and some absurd. Like those fucking mechanical cymbals they thought they'd get up in the air when flying was in it's infancy.

And that's another thing. Cutting edge R&D, trying to develop and keep secret, technology that is superior to what your potential enemies have. For some reason a lot of people are obsessed with area 51. look at this vid. (I want one of those fancy new planes)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPFZkhbqoaA&feature=related

Now... While there could be aliens and interdimensional ports or even hordes of teletubbies secretly stashed away there. For some reason that just sounds... nuts to be blunt. Watchdogging has it's place but I think that dog is barking up the wrong tree. Just because they're hiding something it doesen't necessarily mean they've got something to hide...

The principle is similar but with a little bit more reservation when it comes to intelligence/counterintelligence stuff. From what I've read about these things in the past, these things, with the push and pull of the enemy intelligence and how things are supposed to work in the normal everyday world (police, borders etc) fuckups can lead to a lot of mess with a lot of loose ends sticking out. Which people start making tons of assumptions from. Because a lot of coverups don't stand up to scrutiny if it comes to that point. But most of that stuff is probably not pathological and part of some evil scheme directed at the people. Generally that seems like yet another field that people should keep their noses out of.

What to really look for are individuals who seek power, and operate in fields which involve vast amounts of resources and substantial influence over people. I.e., politics, finance and media. That's where corruption blossoms and a watchdog can actually do something useful. If people would keep their eyes on that, and stick to the facts. They'd probably find a lot of sneaky shit going on. But then it actually becomes work, and requires careful thinking. Not to mention it implies they've got to put their asses out there and take decisive action.

One of the things about the "truth movement" to call it by that term, that has annoyed me a bit is the tendency to simply scream bloody murder and then drop the ball. Hoping someone else solves the problem. If they have even managed to identify one. Which is rarely the case. It is probably the hypocrisy that does it. Because if there really is a problem of the magnitude and urgency that they are claiming. Then prancing about with megaphones and creating websites and so on isn't going to do shit about it. They need to team up and kill people. Raising awareness in such a context? It's like that "all hope lies with the proles, but the proles will never rise" thing. By and large, as far as I can tell, people have always submitted when it mattered the most. The unity that terms like "the people" and "the human race" implies is pretty much an illusion.

It's billions of separate wills acting in self interest. There is no hive mind. Getting people to work together on a large scale with true efficiency takes shitloads of disciplined training and leadership. Otherwise the majority runs about making decisions that may make sense on an individual level, but sabotages the power they could get from complementing each other. It's like the concentration camps. Loads of people with comparatively few guards. If all of them were willing to die in the attempt to rush them, most of them would probably live. But nobody wants to risk dying, so all of them are screwed. It's basically the sheep defense.

Sheep can't run or fight to any particular degree. Their best defense against a predator is to run next to a similar looking sheep and hope it takes that one instead. They fall back into the flock and try to become invisible. (if they're alone they go fucking bananas!) This invisibility thing is what you see in groups of people too. Even on a small scale I.e., when groups of people witness fights. They stop anything that can draw attention to themselves. That's why the term sheeple is actually quite fitting. I'll let the definition be "those who use the sheep defense when group action is required." It is an intelligent move, but on an individual level only. It's not to put a value judgement on it all but it is what it is. I chalk it up to instinct.

In one sense the would be dictators and tryants of the world aren't the true threats. They are nothing without the cooperation of the people. Think of them like bacterias and viruses. We are healthy and happy most of the time. but only because the immune system hunts down and kills pathological bugs. We're surrounded by that shit. AIDS doesen't kill anyone. It's the free roaming infections that do. If you'd take the metaphor further you could say that society is an organism. and it is the lack of effective systems of spotting and stopping bugs that is the real danger. Political correctness, excessive civillization and the obscurity of most of the power centres of society is basically AIDS on a social level. Shit isn't spotted nor dealt with. It's just left to fester and thrive. A great big revolution with all the sizzle or some such thing isn't going to change anything long term. It's like that "war to end all wars" naîvety. You can rest assured that the successive generations will be right back at it. The world is what people do, and people have been doing more or less the same things for thousands of years, and it will probably continue far into the future. It's all human nature. The most realistic thing for those who are compelled towards conspiracy theorism - personally I've got enough with my own little world - is probably to support the methaporical immune system. To enhance society's ability and willingness to detect and deal with each new head the hydra sprouts as they appear.

Buuuuut..... That's not something I'm going to be messing around with. If something isn't relevant I just blank if from my mind. Things that are beyond my power are beyond my concern. No sense of responsibility beyond my response ability, etc... blah I'm rambling. It's getting early, time to sleep.

But it would be cool to start an evil organization and take over the world too when I think about it. Just consider! Henchmen, lava, gadgets, scary music when you do stuff not to mention sharks with lasers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bh7bYNAHXxw

Quote :

Using as much evidence as is available, but perhaps more importantly. Refraining from theorizing too much beyond the information so far collected.

good post R.B.... you do know a lot about sheep dont you?

So far I seem to have nothing to add to y'alls thought processes. However, a few random extras ...
On conspiracies, the unseen, fabrications etc. Perhaps we have something to learn from the Piraha tribe of the Amazon a tribe that has no need for anything less than direct experience?
Here is a short review of a book called "Don't Sleep - There Are Snakes" by Daniel Everett.
Heard him on the BBC Radio programme 'Forum' and thought it fascinating.

The Pirahã Indians of the Amazon are a very peculiar people. They number fewer than 400 and have no myths, rituals or history. Their language is unrelated to any other living tongue. It can be whistled, sung, hummed or spoken. It has no words for numbers, colours, left or right, brother or sister.

The Pirahã never sleep for more than a couple of hours and talk through much of the night. They live as hunter-gatherers in villages along 50 miles of the Maici River deep in the Amazon forest. They have plenty of contact with river traders and other outsiders but display no inclination to change their ways.

Their peculiarities have caused a great stir in the academic world. Much of the excitement focuses on their language's lack of "recursive" constructions. The Pirahã have no ways of coining long phrases like "John's sister's boyfriend's" or "the cat that killed the rat that ate the malt". This contradicts the widely-accepted linguistic theories of Noam Chomsky.

According to Chomskyan orthodoxy, humans have a set of genes – a language instinct – that forces all languages into the same recursive mould. A few mavericks have always been sceptical of Chomsky's grammatical genes. In their view, common linguistic features stem not from genes but simply from the similar cultural needs that different languages are designed to serve. If the unusual requirements of the Pirahã allow them to do without recursion, despite their human genetic endowment, then it looks as if the mavericks were right all along.

Nearly everything we know about the Pirahã comes from Daniel Everett. He first visited them as a missionary in 1977 with the intention of learning enough of their language to translate the New Testament; 30 years later he is no longer a Christian, let alone a missionary, but chair of languages, literatures and cultures at Illinois State University, and something of a celebrity on the international lecture circuit.

Don't Sleep There Are Snakes tells the story of his repeated sojourns with the Pirahã. Related in episodic style, the book is destined to become a classic of popular enthnography. Life in the jungle is harsh and steamy, for missionaries and natives alike, and Everett employs an understated litany of narrow scrapes to help us understand the quirky Pirahã worldview.

Everett thinks that much about the Pirahã is explained by their literally limited horizons. They have no mental space for things outside their experience. Any report in their language must be grammatically marked either as something they have witnessed or that was witnessed by someone they know.

This would never do in our modern world, where we trade constantly in information from distant sources, but it works fine in a community of small villages where everybody knows everybody. Everett argues that this commitment to immediate experience explains why the Pirahã are so disinclined to learn any lessons from outsiders. Everett tried to teach the Pirahã some simple arithmetic. They were more than willing, for they knew that their innumeracy handicapped them in their dealings with the river traders. But after a few months the lessons were abandoned. Not one Pirahã got as far as 1 + 1 = 2. Some would argue that the Pirahã are hampered by the absence of number words. But Everett reminds us that many peoples with similarly limited vocabularies have no difficulty in becoming arithmetically adept. The Pirahã aren't incapable of counting; they choose not to. They just can't see the point of jumping through intellectual hoops unrelated to their experience.

Given this, it's no surprise that the Pirahã are missionary-proof. At one point, Everett's villagers told him politely that he was welcome to stay, but they didn't want to hear any more about Jesus. Later, he thought he was getting somewhere when he found them replaying his recorded version of the Gospel of St Mark. But it turned out that they just liked the bit about John the Baptist ("Wow, they cut off his head. Play that again.") Everett confesses that there is no record of even a single conversion in over 200 years of Christian missions to the Pirahã.

As Everett tells it, the Pirahã are a very happy people, even self-satisfied. They think their way of life cannot be bettered, and they may be right. But one fears for their future. They may have seen off the missionaries, but they are going to get a lot more visitors. Hundreds of high-powered academics will even now be writing grant applications to go and check Everett's startling ethnographic claims. Let us hope that the Pirahã are not spoiled by all the attention.

David Papineau is professor of philosophy at King's College, London

On sheep ....
Tried to find my copy of a book called "Of Wolves and Men" by Barry Lopez to quote accurately from it. But no. Instead I'll have to rely on my memory (which is sometimes dodgy so apologies in advance if I'm remembering wrong).
Lopez spent a large amount of time watching wolves in the wild and came to the conclusion that when a wolf corners it's prey, there is a dialogue between them and it is not always sure that the wolf will prevail. Sometimes the prey does not want to die and the hunt is unsuccessful.
Lopez compared this to a common complaint amongst ranchers, that a wolf will kill indiscriminately in a flock of domestic sheep say, leaving the majority uneaten. Lopez postulates that the domestic sheep have lost their ability to communicate with the wolf so the dialogue is missing from the interaction. They just wait to die whereas wild prey do not.
Another thing, apparently during the 1800s when the Europeans drove the Native Americans into reservations, one of the chiefs complained bitterly about being fed farmed meat, saying that all the power had been taken out of the food and eating farmed animals would keep his people weak.

On another note, people here love car bumper stickers. A couple entertaining ones:
"What if the Hokey Pokey IS what it's all about"?
"When The Rapture comes, can I have your stuff".

The Pirahã sound pretty much like they're the zen people. I think we do have something to learn from them. The ability to stop thinking seems important. At least I've found it to be useful. Misapplied thinking tie people's minds into knots. That's where complexes come from, or at least what seems to be the engine behind them. Thinking about and around things. Unless it's fun or useful why do it? It's a action. An unconscious habit for most but an action nonetheless. Better to stop the mental chatter and do proper thinking when it's fun or useful. Otherwise...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYLMTvxOaeE



The wild sheep Vs. domesticated sheep and wolf hunting thing makes sense. The extent of the communication taking place is questionable but in nature the stakes are pretty high. An injury such a broken bone or bad wound can have fatal consequences. Plus expending a lot of energy on a failed hunt isn't good either. So a lot of sizing up is going on. I guess that might look a bit like a dialogue. Domesticated animals are basically retards. Even adult dogs are more or less like wolf puppies from what I understand. Plus domesticated sheep usually don't have horns and I doubt they have the "tribal unity" of a wild flock. So when a wolf happens upon a bunch of domesticated sheep then I guess it's a bit like an all you can eat buffet. FREE LUNCH!!!

And it appears not only humans load too much food on their plates under these cirmumstances. "yumyumyumyumyumyumyumyumyum... awwwwghhh I'm stuffed, after only two sheep."

a lot of good points but I got to be brief(ish)

during my psych degree I studied Language and I have to say I have no fuckin clue how Chomsky's "Language Acquisition Device" pet theory ever got any credence ( a part of your brain that just acquires language- how convenient!) - like many psychology theories they usually start up a psychologists ass before he or she decides to whip them out, at least Freud was honest about it:

Freuds' hypotheses were explicitly based on "introspection", which is as good as saying "I reckon this is the way it is because thats what I reckon"- a far more honest approach that harkens back to Psychology's truer, cleaner Philosophical roots- this obsession with turnining Psychology into a "proper science" is an agenda that encourages ridiculous constructs like the "L.A.D." notion of Chomsky's and that same agenda which encrouaged the Psychology community to twitter on impotently about genetic causes of behaviour- Impossible to prove, dangerous and fatalistic to assume and creates a framework for pharmaceutical psychotherapy:

"your psycholigical problem is genetic and /or its a brain chemical imbalance.... so we will use chemicals to heal you!"

a seemingly simple logical leap

anyway thats my little rant... there is about as much evidence for Chomsky's ideas as there is for David Icke's theory that the queen is a blood sucking reptile, its basically a Conspiracy Theory: little evidence, bags of agenda and pet theories shoehorned into predecided foregone conclusions

Chomsky, the same guy who says there is no evidence for foul play in the 9/11 incident and that "it really doesnt matter who killed JFK, presidents get killed all the time, it should be no concern of ours."

Domesticated sheep who dont challenge the wolf? Positively encourged by Darth Chomsky.

That neatly led us back to the beginning didnt it?

Theories and hypotheses really shouldn't be taken too seriously. A theory that has withstood many attempts to break it has earned a bit more credibility. But the fact that humans believe something to make sense is absolutely not a stamp of quality. The list of retrospectiely understandable idiocies that have been deemed to make sense on a large scale is gargantuan. On the contrary it should make researchers particularily concerned with eliminating biased thinking. If you really like a theory, what you should do is try to completely slaughter the thing by throwing facts at it. Which of course flies straight in the face of human nature.

This time we're living in now might very well be some future point's dark age. Then again, technological and social progress isn't a given. There could very well be a global Africa down the pike. And, on a completely different note, maybe other talking animals. Mostly dogs. Brilliantly created in genetic labs by the CIA to act as secret agents and so on, only to become double agents for nothing more than... Sausages!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UHKB6nQrzM&feature=rec-HM-rev-rn

Yes. That is the real truth about that dog! And they tried to cover it up by claiming it was because of the beer... conveniently "no longer available"...


Apropos of that, and Darth Chomsky's LAD. What about animals who mimic sounds, such as ravens and parrots? They seem to possess both an ability to tie the sound pattern to specific things as well as keep these things oriented in their head. Enabling them for crude verbal communication with humans. Maybe human language developed from some earlier types of ape-men who mimicked animal sounds for hunting and stuff. That a set of instincts could have formed around such a tendency, based on reproductive success and survival stemming from increased ability to cooperate, seems like a possibility. But this LAD thing sounds a lot like a bunch of BS made up to sound impressive.

Psychology shares a trait with martial arts in that they both share an aura of mystique and power in the popular mind. That's probably a big reason why many get into it at all and some never wise up. Lots of people with degrees meticulously adorned with many letters by their names really don't seem to understand what the hell they're talking about. It's more like they simply repeat what they've been told with an air of authority.

Philosophical stuff should be kept philosophical. Creating these wild ass hypotheses is actually a good thing, so long as they are kept philosophical and only taken seriously to the point that they stand up to attempts to break them. They feed scientific exploration. I believe proper science psychology would be a good thing, so long as it is real science and not just posturing as it. Neuroscience at least deals with something tangible. Figuring out the wiring and physiological functioning of the brain seems like a sturdy foundation.

We are biological things. Defects and injuries do occur. And the brain is a physical organ. Genetics and behavior do seem to be connected. Dogs for instance can be bred, altering temperaments and all sort of things. There's definitely a link. But drawing conclusions is mighty early. Saying ridiculous things like "there's a gene for this" or "gene for that" means nothing. Environments can alter how genes work. Hormones and things turning on and off genes. Genes altering how other genes work. That whole thing is real complex so I won't even bother guessing for specifics. The fact that the function of the brain can be altered with something that changes how the brain functions doesen't mean the problem is automatically genetic.

The biggest problem with pharmacology is that there's loads of money to be had from it. That virtually guarantees corruption of some form and degree. Secondly they currently don't have the ability to pinpoint their physiological target but have to basically resort to carpet bombing the entire body with the chemicals in order to produce an effect. For psychopharmacological stuff that basically means they can alter any too high or low levels of certain neurotransmitters but by doing so set all other parts of the brain that make use of the same type out of whack. Creating many side effects, some of which can be worse than the problem they were meant to solve in the first place. And it is reached for far too soon. As far as I'm concerned it should be an emergency tool used strictly short term. It's a brute force method applied to a very fine tuned machinery. And affecting one part may change how other parts perform.

Proper nutrition is a big factor. Neglected of course. Very little money to be had. There's a lot of modern day things that may work on the physiology of the brain that is not taken into account. The artificial sweetener aspartame for instance, when broken down in the body alters all sorts of things pertaining to neurotransmitters, and shitloads of other stuff. How many other such things are there that are not being taken into account?

As said, this may very well be some future point's dark age. What the fuck were those yahoos thinking? Is what they might ask. There's a lot we don't know.

But back to aspartame. The only way that poison could have been approved for consumption, and kept approved to this day, is through some form of corruption. It's a profit maximizing chemical. Here's just some from the top of google.

http://www.jcrows.com/aspartame.html

http://www.wnho.net/to_firefighters_union_members.htm

Screw the illuminati and the tin foil. This shit is the real form of conspiracy. While everyone is looking at the things that grab attention. Worrying about aliens and satanists. The real business goes on within the everyday, boring stuff. The things that are normal, and have to be pointed out to even be noticed. Asking the frog "has the water gotten warmer lately?"

Quote :

Screw the illuminati and the tin foil. This shit is the real form of conspiracy. While everyone is looking at the things that grab attention. Worrying about aliens and satanists. The real business goes on within the everyday, boring stuff. The things that are normal, and have to be pointed out to even be noticed. Asking the frog "has the water gotten warmer lately?"

to be fair to Darth Chomsky- what you said there is HIS stance on conspiracy theories, he thinks 9/11, JFK are ludicrous diversions from the real provable conspiracies that go on all the time, so fair play to him for stepping up and trying to expose them. I just have a bee in my bonnet about anyone who says "shut up, stop thinking, dont look at the evidence, the official story is the only bedtime story you need : crazy muslims/ communists/ the lone nutcase done it"... like that fat tool from penn and teller

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcrF346sS_I

warning! this clip may make you gag and vomit into your mouth simultaneously

on the subject of genes, I used to go out with a bio genetics student- we had some good rows, during which I learnt that the word "gene" can have different meanings, its not necessarily a singular thing, but it could be- anyway I knew we were doomed as a couple when she started on the "they have found a gene for homosexuality" routine... " no, no its PROVEN, scientifically, unquestionably" ranted the thoughtless idiot

one way of heating water so the frogs dont notice is to turn th heat on and off at intervals... in hypnosis we call this effect "fractination"... gets them used to a certain state of "heat"...

last I heard I.D. cards were off... now they are back on but voluntary

http://uk.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUKTRE54520120090506

yes they REALLY are saying with a straight fucking face that VOLUNTARY (yes voluntary) i.d. cards will fight terrorism and illegal immigration


wait


unless...


unless...

a few particulalry cunning terrorists and illegal immigrants slip through the net by NOT volunteering?


"I rule you, you rule me, everyone rules us secretly...."

What Chomsky was saying sounded mostly like "there is nothing to see, go after white collar crime or something." What I attempted to say was that there does seem to be something fucked up going on, but you'll never find in in the rubble of those events.

9/11 and 7/7? False flag operations. The Americans supposedly even had the plans drawn up for using an airplane to strike a building for that very purpose way back. Yes, governments are willing to sacrifice people for percieved greater good. Nothing new.

JFK apparently pissed off powerful forces in the intelligence, military industrial sector and organized crime, by trying to dissolve them. Killing people you dislike is one of the all time great pastimes of the human species. The man clearly had no survival instincts.

When you've decided to mistrust the official story, the direction of suspicion is pretty clear. What more is there to conclude from those events?

This clip summarizes my attitude on this pretty well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7zYVEyG9vM

The mechanisms of real control where you can actually try to figure out larger patterns are to be found in the boring, mundane, day to day events. The real magic happens when and where people aren't paying attention.

But what is the point and purpose of all this? Presumably a will do something about it. But everything conspiracy theorists do seems to be about these same damn old events and informing "the people." In the event of a coup d'etat type of thing "the people," will never do anything but submit. Torches and pitchforks may have worked back in the Roman empire and similar, but I expect any rebels, AKA terrorists will be dealt with rather swiftly. It was bad enough for anyone going up against the soviets or the nazis. If they possessed current technology the rebels wouldn't last a week.

When it comes down to it. As far as I can tell it is all about power. Absolutely everything. Tangible real power. Fuck "illuminati" and all that woo woo crap, that entire reality tunnel is completely fucked up. It's so clogged up with bullshit that it's just useless. Think organized crime instead. Except, organized white collar crime primarily. Which is where these insanely rich and very low profile people fit in so nicely. But it's all guesswork from here. Scattered pieces of information. A lot of it is probably out there, but I haven't looked that much at this stuff. These autors were interesting, and seemingly down to earth:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/How-World-Really-Works-Jones/dp/0964084813/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1241690954&sr=1-1

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Best-Democracy-Money-Investigative-Globalization/dp/1841197149/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1241691014&sr=1-2

The only fact is that power can be broken down and understood structurally. Which is what I was getting at in the first post when I wrote "Functionally, an organization is a social machine, it has certain needs and ways of functioning. When you understand their structure you've got your strategy for tearing the machine apart."

It must be broken physically, tangibly. Destroyed. And the people will not help. Not unless you can manipulate them more effectively than your enemy. And maybe a rough idea of what something like this would require becomes apparent? Power! All kinds of subtle and not so subtle forms of power. Intel, secrecy, contacts, money, the list could become extensive. Not 4th generation warfare, but 5th? 6th? Fuck if I know...

Which is why I "blank" it. It's just too far out of my league to even bother messing with. Like a mosquito attempting to rape an elephant. Unless it seems even remotely realistic, I'm not going to walk around with a fucking planet on my shoulders. Besides, I could be nuts!

I think you've got the right attitude for staying switched on and staying sane

I like the long kiss goodnight link, not a great film overall but it does have some good lines and some nice performances... Brian Cox is awesome ever playing the Illuminati Mind Control Handler in some form or other... then his son played the Young Sherlock Holmes, a film littered with secret society symbology if you look for patterns you find them, that isnt theory thats an observable function of your brain that is a survival requirement (doesnt mean there arent patterns tho )

here is another clip from Long Kiss Goodnight re. "blaming them Ay-raaabs to justify a budget increase"



some would say weirdly prophetic, but not me, I think its just the state of play

I like the "sytems thinking" approach you take to power, it's surely the most sensible and "science style" way emprically building a picture based on clearly observable facts- I personally dont think the machine needs dismantling, we havent evolved beyond needing it yet so we keep it and so we keep it going.

Only a shift in consciousness will make a difference.

Did I just paraphrase Obama?

Agreed - a mosquito will have a hell of a hard time raping an elephant - probably not worth the risk! But you can choose how much you play into the game. Like Jim Hightower said "Even a small dog can take a piss on the corner of the largest corporate building".

But I do think it's probably helpful to relax into the idea that only YOU are responsible for yourself, you are never really going to know if butter is good for you or if new advances in chemistry or genetics are really safe. No one really cares about you as an individual just as long as the system keeps trundling along.
I think it's safe to assume that the powerful always try to keep their power and that if the shit goes down, no one is coming to help, you are on your own.
Best make your own decisions and find some trusted friends.
I'm OK with that.

Just my link contribution to everyone's paranoia/revelations.
123RealChange is Siebel Edmonds new blog with her views on U.S. politics, the press and security. It may evolve into something kewl... or not.

Wasn't sure whether to put this here or in the 'Quotes what I like' ... either way it made me laugh - so thanks 'choff' from the SP forum!
Quote:
"As far as 'God bothering' goes. Each to their
own.... I really don't care..... I do find all that talk a little
concerning but....... I find the fact that people believe in a Jewish
Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you
symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him
as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is
present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking
snake to eat from a magical tree all a bit disturbing too"