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 Collapsible Batons

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4444



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Join date : 2008-10-04
Location : Boston

PostSubject: Collapsible Batons   Sat Oct 04, 2008 1:27 pm

Hello, all,

Here's a question for the community. A non-MA friend of mine asked me the other night why, as someone committed to self defense, I don't carry a collapsible baton. I was about to offer an answer when I realized that I don't have one. Do any of you have experience with these weapons? Gimmick, useful tool, requires specialized training, limits one's tactical thinking and response? Other?

Your thoughts would be appreciated.

--Dave
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cocktail

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Join date : 2008-07-15

PostSubject: Re: Collapsible Batons   Sat Oct 04, 2008 3:38 pm

They are actually a GREAT weapon......problem is, they are illegal in the states now from what i hear......maybe it was just NY though, i cant remember.
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4444



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PostSubject: Re: Collapsible Batons   Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:41 pm

That settles that. Just checked. They are, in fact, illegal in my state. Thanks.
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Constantine



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PostSubject: Re: Collapsible Batons   Sat Oct 04, 2008 6:09 pm

If you cant carry a baton, carry a can of pepper spray. Just as good for a split second distractor before continuing the damage.
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cocktail

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PostSubject: Re: Collapsible Batons   Sat Oct 04, 2008 6:57 pm

Constantine wrote:
If you cant carry a baton, carry a can of pepper spray. Just as good for a split second distractor before continuing the damage.
I personally dont suggest carrying around a can of mace......but a nice folder can do the trick.......only thing is re-action time in order to deploy that item/weapon.....in most cases the odds are against you in getting to your item/weapon in time.
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Nav



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Join date : 2008-05-20

PostSubject: Re: Collapsible Batons   Sat Oct 04, 2008 7:37 pm

in the uk you cant even have anything that could be used as a weapon with you, you're not allowed to have a wrench in your car unless its in the boot
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ttruscott



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Join date : 2008-08-28

PostSubject: Re: Collapsible Batons   Sat Oct 04, 2008 8:14 pm

Well, in Canada we can choose to be armed if we fear violence and a collapsible baton is not restricted unless it is spring loaded. Then it is prohibited.

The list of prohibited weapons in Canada (as excerpted from my book Canadian Law and Self Defence:

Prohibited Weapons
• any device designed to be used for the purpose of
injuring, immobilising or otherwise incapacitating
any person by the discharge therefrom of
(a) tear gas, mace or other gas, or
(b) any liquid, spray, powder or other substance
that is capable of injuring, immobilising or oth-
erwise incapacitating any person;

• any instrument or device commonly known as
“nunchaku,” being hard non-flexible sticks, clubs,
pipes or rods connected by a rope, cord, wire, or
chain;

• any instrument or device commonly known as
“shuriken,” being a hard non-flexible plate having
three or more radiating points with one or more
sharp edges in the shape of a polygon, trefoil, cross,
star, diamond or other geometric shape;

• any instrument or device commonly known as
“manrikigusari or kusari,” and any similar instru-
ment or device, being hexagonal or other geometri-
cally shaped hard weights or handgrips linked by a
length or lengths of rope, cord, wire or chain :

• any finger ring that has one or more blades or sharp
objects that are capable of being projected from the
surface of the ring;

• the device known as Taser public defender being a
gun or a device similar to a gun capable of injuring,
immobilising or otherwise incapacitating a person
by the discharge therefrom of darts or any other
object carrying an electrical current or substance, or
any other similar device;

• any device that is designed to be capable of injuring,
immobilising or otherwise incapacitating a person
or an animal by discharging an electrical charge
produced by means of the amplification or accumu-
lation of the electrical current generated by a bat-
tery, where the device is designed or altered so that
the electrical charge may be discharged when the
device is of a length of less that 480 mm, or any other
similar device;
• any device commonly known as a Crossbow, with a
stock of 400 mm or less, or any other similar device;

• the weapon known as the “Constant Companion,”
being a belt containing a blade capable of being
withdrawn from the belt, with the buckle of the belt
forming a handle for the blade;

• any knife commonly known as a Push Dagger that is
designed in such a fashion that the handle is placed
perpendicular to the main cutting edge of the blade;

• any device having a length of less than 30 cm and
resembling an innocuous object but designed to
conceal a knife or blade, including the device com-
monly known as the knife comb, being a comb with
the handle of the comb forming a handle for the knife;

• and any other device similar to the device described
as the constant companion, the push dagger, but not
including the aboriginal “ulu” knife, and the knife
comb.

the device commonly known as a “Kiyoga Baton” or
“Steel Cobra” and any similar device consisting of a
manually-triggered telescoping spring-loaded steel
whip terminated in a heavy calibre striking tip;


• the device commonly known as a “spiked wrist-
band,” being a wristband to which a spike or blade is
affixed or any similar device;

• the weapon commonly known as the “Yaqua Blow-
gun” being a tube or pipe designed for the purpose
of shooting arrows or darts by the breath, and any
similar device;

• the device commonly known as a “Morning Star”
and any similar device consisting of a ball of metal or
other heavy material, studded with spikes and con-
nected to a handle by a length of chain, rope or other
flexible material;

• the device known as the “SSS-1 Stinger” and any
similar device that consists of a single shot weapon
of any calibre and is designed or of a size to fit in the
palm of the hand or in a cigarette package and

• the device known as “Brass Knuckles” and any sim-
ilar device consisting of a band of metal with finger
holes designed to fit over the root knuckles of the
hand.

Ted
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cocktail

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PostSubject: Re: Collapsible Batons   Sat Oct 04, 2008 9:39 pm

the good 'ol brass knuckles Twisted Evil lol!
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VictorS

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PostSubject: Re: Collapsible Batons   Sat Oct 04, 2008 9:55 pm

In Florida if you have a CCW you can carry one.

790.01 Carrying concealed weapons.--

(1) Except as provided in subsection (4), a person who carries a concealed weapon or electric weapon or device on or about his or her person commits a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.

(2) A person who carries a concealed firearm on or about his or her person commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

(3) This section does not apply to a person licensed to carry a concealed weapon or a concealed firearm pursuant to the provisions of s. 790.06.

(4) It is not a violation of this section for a person to carry for purposes of lawful self-defense, in a concealed manner:

(a) A self-defense chemical spray.

(b) A nonlethal stun gun or dart-firing stun gun or other nonlethal electric weapon or device that is designed solely for defensive purposes.
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Richard Grannon
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PostSubject: Re: Collapsible Batons   Sun Oct 05, 2008 8:06 pm

4444, I dont recommend a baton for the reasons you gave in your first post

I'm pretty anti "sort of weapons"... either no weapons empty handed or a proper weapon would be my choice-

an extendable baton to me is a "sort of weapon" is hard to deploy and just doesnt deliver enough when they are deployed IMHO, only used one once and ended up just punching the chap and got more out of pushing him over a bin that twatting him with the thin bit of metal

Ive been maced when I got mugged and I think its a formiddable opener if you had premeditated doing someone in, but getting it out if attakced and using it? you'd be better of doing something with your bared hands, elbows, claws etc and then spraying them after for pubishment

Ive used deodarant for exactly this- a cheeky opener- was told afterwards that it can collapse a lung though

I dont recommend anyone doing this as its illegal- Im making the point that the best defensive weapons are probably not legal to carry knives and small sidearms made for that purpose so why bother?

If I lived in a state in the US where people could carry guns, I would consider getting one, if I thought I was really really at risk of being attacked by one


ttruscott

strictly speaking in the uk, you "can" carry an illegal weapon if you can prove you had to... Im saying "can" to the extent that you may get caught and not do time for it if you can justify it- still illegal though.

VictorS, is your state becoming the most vigilante friendly state in the U.S.?? Very Happy
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VictorS

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PostSubject: Re: Collapsible Batons   Sun Oct 05, 2008 9:26 pm

Richard Grannon wrote:

VictorS, is your state becoming the most vigilante friendly state in the U.S.?? Very Happy

Damn near. Florida was the first state to pass what is now known as the "no duty to retreat" law regarding self-defense and deadly force use. Now, it's been adopted by many other states.

What many in the US don't realize is that self-defense is up to each individual. To many sheeple think that by dialing 911 they can be protected by the police.
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Richard Grannon
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PostSubject: Re: Collapsible Batons   Mon Oct 06, 2008 9:42 am

how is it affecting crime rates? or I should say: is it affecting them? does it help?
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k9nfm



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PostSubject: Re: Collapsible Batons   Mon Oct 06, 2008 9:48 am

Forgive me if it has already been mentioned but ASPs and CS/pepper spray are illegal in the UK. Similar gas/spray are actually classed as a S.5 firearm!
Both great weapons in my opinion BUT if not used correctly or the suspect is under the influence......they quite often do not work.... scratch lol
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Richard Grannon
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PostSubject: Re: Collapsible Batons   Mon Oct 06, 2008 9:54 am

just set the dogs on em K9!
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VictorS

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PostSubject: Re: Collapsible Batons   Mon Oct 06, 2008 2:52 pm

Richard Grannon wrote:
how is it affecting crime rates? or I should say: is it affecting them? does it help?

You be the judge.

http://www.fdle.state.fl.us/FSAC/Crime_Trends/violent/index.asp

http://www.fdle.state.fl.us/FSAC/Crime_Trends/violent/fa_index.asp

http://www.nraila.org/Issues/FactSheets/Read.aspx?id=206&issue=007
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Richard Grannon
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PostSubject: Re: Collapsible Batons   Mon Oct 06, 2008 4:59 pm

when did the "no duty to retreat" law come in?

looks like crime went up from 2006 to 07... but Im not great with stats so may have got that wrong-

the law must have been welcomed by you and others in your field though VictorS right? people in your line of work are pretty vulnerable I shoudl imagine
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VictorS

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PostSubject: Re: Collapsible Batons   Mon Oct 06, 2008 5:12 pm

Overall crime in Fl has actually gone down. But the population has exploeded...

Here's a better graph.

http://www.fdle.state.fl.us/fsac/Crime_Trends/violent/index.asp#Total%20Violent%20Crime

It goes in cycles and with the economy the way it is right now it's nice to know that if you justifiably defend yourself, you won't get fucked in court - criminal or civil.

The law was passed in April of 2005 and went into effect in October of the same year. The law didn't really affect people in my line of business so much as it helped the average citizen.

Here's a summary of the law...

Florida's "Castle Doctrine" law does the following:

One: It establishes, in law, the presumption that a criminal who forcibly enters or intrudes into your home or occupied vehicle is there to cause death or great bodily harm, so the occupant may use force, including deadly force, against that person.

Two: It removes the "duty to retreat" if you are attacked in any place you have a right to be. You no longer have to turn your back on a criminal and try to run when attacked. Instead, you may stand your ground and fight back, meeting force with force, including deadly force, if you reasonably believe it is necessary to prevent death or great bodily harm to yourself or others.

Three: It provides that persons using force authorized by law shall not be prosecuted for using such force. It also prohibits criminals and their families from suing victims for injuring or killing the criminals who have attacked them. In short, it gives rights back to law-abiding people and forces judges and prosecutors to focus on protecting victims.
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roadkill

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PostSubject: Re: Collapsible Batons   Mon Oct 06, 2008 7:24 pm

I too live in Florida and though many people think its becoming more of a vigilante state. The opposite occurs and we maintain the rights we have as citizens so we don’t have to depend on 911 dial a prayer. However, we shouldn’t loose site of why we have the second amendment in the first place and that is in case they forget the rest of the amendments.

You may find this interesting:

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k9nfm



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PostSubject: Re: Collapsible Batons   Mon Oct 06, 2008 8:28 pm

Richard Grannon wrote:
"just set the dogs on em K9!"

Spot on Richie lol!!! Twisted Evil Wink Tell you what, jokes aside, talk about violent intent....not much beats a dog!! Give me a dog over an ASP any day!! My favourite partner in crime!

Sorry 4444, I didnt see you were in Boston, probably legal there.....not such a risk then lol!
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