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 a paradox...your thoughts?

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thugsage
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PostSubject: a paradox...your thoughts?   Tue Aug 19, 2008 6:06 pm

i train for peace of mind. because being formidable brings me peace. i feel violent/restless the more vulnerable i am. when i'm injured
i'm probably more dangerous and edgy. so even as i fixate on what to do in any situation, i can't help notice that protecting my family
makes me feel awkward when i'm on the street. like an achilles heal. i notice the body language i send out gives me breathing room when
i'm walking alone--but makes certain individuals almost play a game of 'chicken' with me if i'm walking my son in his stroller. or walking
with my wife, or all the above. others, i'm sure, are playing on the idea that if there is more than one--my family will always be vulnerable.
the closest thing to peace i've ever managed on this subject is to let go of them for an instant (if something happens) and become such
and attacker/predator, that the attention is so far from focossing on my family, that it's more concerned with putting me down or getting
away from me.

what do others feel when they know they are the only fighter in a group. it feels like a paradox to me. like i have to completely forget my
family for seconds so that they will be safe. or suffer the consequence of keeping a nervous eye on them while i'm dropping my guard in
various ways while i try and do something about an attack. it hasn't happened yet, but it's happening all around me, and it's a situation
i can't afford to lose. i've even had a scenario--years back, when two men and a women try and mug me and a girlfriend. on that occasion,
because the women was not really very concerned with the girl i was walking with, and one of the guys just didn't have his heart into it,
it was quite comical. i was much more forgiving back then--laughing at the guy left to deal with me and slapping him on the back before
walking off. i've changed alot since then; there are too many unstable young thugs out there. everywhere. fighting, and taping it on their
cell phones. it's quite epidemic. i've met alot of subconcious body posturing, etc challenges head on. eventually someone's going to have
some follow through.

any thoughts from anyone?
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AdamM



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PostSubject: Re: a paradox...your thoughts?   Tue Aug 19, 2008 7:13 pm

personally I've always thought it unhealthy to define yourself as a fighter unless you're a sports combat athlete.
I put a lot of time, effort and thought into my training and that of my students, but I don't think of myself as a fighter. I'm husband, father, guitarist, designer, friend..............who can look after himself a bit. If you're stepping in the ring / cage then you have to live and breath fighting but as we know, that doesn't necessarily transfer to self protection. When I started training in 1994 aged 21 I trained 4 nights a week, twice as a kickboxer and twice in street self protection (before RBSD existed in anything resembling it's current form). Even back then I was a lot of things before I was a fighter. It's something my instructor (and now club co-instrictor) instilled in me from the start.

To a degree I understand your point. I'm uncomfortable in big crowds, especially where alcohol is involved. Busy night clubs / venue bars, festivals, football matches, etc. I find myself on edge, aware of the intrisicly higher threat level these places present. I personally believe if someone's walking in broad daylight consciously scanning everyone they walk past for threat level, they are taking it to far. Let your peripheral vision and subconscious pick out the genuine threats. If you've done the work in training you'll walk with more confidence and will be less of a target. Your background awareness will be higher than the average joe. If you walk round glaring at people you make yourself a target. As Richie says in his intro clip on the main site, if you walk down the street and approach a group of lads in your path and make eye contact, the fight has already begun. Now I'm not saying avoid eye contact with everyone incase it starts a fight. Quite the opposite. 99+% of people in the street me us no harm. If you're staring out any males 18-50 especially any with tattoos, hoods, muscles or hands in pockets you're going to be in a constant state of coiled spring.

I worry about people taking it TOO seriously almost as much as I worry about people not taking it seriously enough. You have to strike a balance. Train hard and realistically in dangerous and uncomfortable scenarios but then don't walk the streets thinking you're constantly in danger. Stop to smell the roses and worry less about the pricks in the undergrowth flower
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PostSubject: Re: a paradox...your thoughts?   Wed Aug 20, 2008 1:01 pm

good advice.
i think i get more ballistic when i have an injury. but i only feel
like a 'coiled-spring' when i'm with my son. i walk daily through
areas where there's alot of posturing and what i might call
lithmus (don't know how to spell that) tests. it doesn't faze me
when i'm on my own, just when i have people with i care about,
because it's almost never by someone by themselves--always by
several young-ish men.
i catch your drift though. many roles to live out properly.
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PostSubject: Re: a paradox...your thoughts?   Wed Aug 20, 2008 2:27 pm

...
just for clarity though, i'm pretty comfortable by myself. the 'new frontier'
for me is walking with my family--pregnant wife & two year toddler. i
started fighting and learning how to fight in my early teens and i'm 42 now.
i thought i had achieved a balance or sorts, but it's been a while since i've had to really look out for other's safety. so what i was hoping to convey in
my subject was what a good strategy might be having several vulnerable
people in your charge as it were.
i used to have to look after my mum in this way--or i should say i was on
many occasions put in a position to look out for her. i haven't had to think
about anyone else's skin but my own in a long time.
for what it's worth, i'm one of those tattoo'd hoody wearing guys myself.
generally when i say hello to individuals, i'm more likely to get a sigh of
relief and a reciprocal hello. i'm specifically referring to group threats in
areas of higher-than-average incidents in my daily movements.
i think what you were responding to was an inciteful bigger issue perhaps
as it related to several other things i've written. i often need to cool out
and gain a perspective. in this case, i think it would be the subject of this
forum regardless of personality types.
i like your advice though, this isn't meant to sound like a retort, but since
you do have experience...what might you do if faced with a real group threat as a father.

i would like to give you credit and say that if that much of my personality
is coming through--it shows i need to get back to meditating more which used to really give me a balanced perspective of familial, professional, spiritual and defense related topics.
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AdamM



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PostSubject: Re: a paradox...your thoughts?   Wed Aug 20, 2008 3:25 pm

My comments weren't really aimed directly at you, rather they were an observation of the challenge people who train face in finding that balance. Obviously I had your post in mind but wasn't directly making judgments on your own personal balance.

I have two kids of my own and so can empathise with you here. Our first home was in a run down area of town with a couple of alleyways near by where drug deals took place. I regularly walked through them on my own and only had one run in with the lads doing business there.
"You looking to score mate?"
"Do I look like Ryan Fucking Giggs?"
"Alright, sorry mate, just asking."
Must have got the eye contact right because he put his hands up like I was holding him up Very Happy

When walking with my daughter (she's 8 now but would have been more like 3 at the time) I would take a slight detour and not walk through the alleys, but there was no avoiding the ends of them. I just kept switched on and stayed between her and any blind corners. The dealers weren't interested in me and my kid and we weren't interested in them.

Obviously if I'm in a public park with the kids I'm aware of any groups of lads who might be sinking a few cans but I try not to let it worry me too much. I've never had a situation arise where I felt the family were at risk.

I grew up with long hair and a leather jacket, I have tattoos and am relatively small and look less dangerous than I probably am. All good reasons for me to know better than to judge people by appearance. I never assume someone is going to behave in a certain way because of how they dress, style their hair or decorate their bodies. I never over or underestimate someone's abilities and although might make initial glances towards groups or individuals that might carry a stereotype of being a threat, I always assume they mean me no harm. I'm quite confident that if that turns out not to be the case I'll pick it up quite quickly.
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PostSubject: Re: a paradox...your thoughts?   Wed Aug 20, 2008 4:46 pm

makes sense to me. i try and detour as much as i can, but there are
a few unavoidable places where alot of hold-ups take place. there's
always the issue of drug deals in washington d.c. which makes lads
very territorial and emotional (and volatile)--because it represents big
money, etc...
i get the feeling i had deadened myself to it until my son came around.

anyway, glad we both elaborated...alot is lost in a written venue.
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PostSubject: Re: a paradox...your thoughts?   Wed Aug 20, 2008 7:54 pm

I should clarify I live in a small 40,000 population town with some small time crooks and thugs. I'm under no illusion I stared down serious drug barons Very Happy
I may well feel differently if I lived in a large metropolitan area with a higher level of serious crime.
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PostSubject: Re: a paradox...your thoughts?   Wed Aug 20, 2008 11:20 pm

Russel, I don't know where you live but it's gotta be a war zone for thugs to play chicken with you when you're walking with your son!

I think you may be looking at your problem in the wrong way. In reality you're just insecure at an abnormal level. No amount of punching the bag will help in that department. You need some therapy or something.

When walking around, I sometimes spot these completely average looking people, going around and staring down blacks, youths, anyone dressed in gangsta apparel, as if they're saying "I know you wanna attack me... ..Im ready!!". When I see them I think they might as well have just painted a target on their forehead. If you're noticing too many people looking at you as if you're prey, it's probably cause you're acting the part!

Any behavior out of the ordinary stands out to the actual predators out there. Like if you're too happy, you're turning heads cause people think "what's that dickhead so happy about?". Same goes for being mad, sad, etc. Going around looking like you're about to kill somebody actually is seen as overcompensation and therefore it means you're actually weak.

If you look confident, then nobody will question why you're there. You'll just become part of the scenery, why would anyone attack YOU when there's little old granny standing by the ATM there?

Problem is, if you're paranoid like that, you'd have to be a professional actor to pull off looking confident. I recommend some sort of therapy. This isn't a problem that will be solved by reading something in a forum.
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PostSubject: Re: a paradox...your thoughts?   Thu Aug 21, 2008 3:32 am

Well with most of the people I hang out with I am usually the person to sort out problems. And I realize how unaware most people are.

For a while when I started security and my awareness was going up, it was a bit too much.. my friend who was teaching me said it has to be more subtle, he noticed I am alot more aware, but it is too obvious.

So it sounds like you are aware which is good.. especially if you are walking around areas with alot of posturing and such, but you may just have to find a balance.

Eventually I found a balance with it.. I am aware and take notice of things, and if I need to focus more on something that is 'a bit off' then I will..

It is harder with family.. I am much more likely to use avoidance if I am with family or whatever, but if they are threatened or harmed and it can't be avoided, I am much more likely to go full out to protect them.

If you go too far with it you will get certain feelings regularly, maybe little adrenaline or whatever, which isn't good for you all the time, you know the delayed adrenaline dump where you are waiting for something to happen and it is there for hours or even days, you know how shit that makes you feel? I don't know if that is what you get, but you may just need to work on being aware without being too full on with it, like staring at everybody etc..

I know this because it happened to me, and my friend told me this, that it might make me a target, so I had to learn to do it more subtly.

Anyway don't have alot more to add, I think i'm repeating myself.

And Tom1985, are you having fun talking shit to Russel? Seems like you wanted to get one in on him after he told you to calm down on the other thread, and he was right.

No therapy is needed for Russel, it seems to be a stage people go through when improving awareness, it happened to me and I learnt to balance it.

But i'm sure you have a good time keeping your therapist in business, don't you tom Laughing

-Ben
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PostSubject: Re: a paradox...your thoughts?   Thu Aug 21, 2008 7:37 am

hang on benjamin, Tom raises some decent points. He's right in saying that by glaring at everyone as you walk around you're making yourself look more like a target, rather than less. He's also right to say that if you're having constant feelings of being in danger in public when you're not that there might be psychological issues that need addressing.

re-read Toms post. It's perfectly reasonable and not at all "talking shit" to Russell.
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PostSubject: Re: a paradox...your thoughts?   Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:03 pm

i'm going to carefully word this because i see the potential for
some spiraling (out of control) messages.
rather than debate whether Tom1985 was taking issue with my
previous post, or whether Adam (who has also mildly not been
keen on some of what i've written) was correct in seeing what
is valid in Tom's response. i will just say that whatever my human
flaws are, i'm capable of seeing/hearing the truth and processing
it and moving forward.

my edgy response in a previous message to you Tom was because
you showed disrespect to Richie in my opinion. you called him out
in his forum in a manner that reaked disrespect. you may not have
intended it to come off that way. we're all capable of having our
blood pressure raised--myself included, from time to time. so if i
should have written that with less of an edge. i stand corrected. it was
antagonistic, so i got my antagonistic response from you in your
message on the subject of walking with my son. i get it. what you are
correct about is that it is possible to blend, and this is what happens
most of the time. you read too much into my response and assumed
too much, because i annoyed you previously. that's fair. i understand
human nature well enough, and i'm not perfect enough to do too much
judging. i do get the occasional challenge in my area (sorry but it's true)
even if i'm mild mannered. it is a neighborhood of alot of drug deals,
many street crimes--the bulk of the victims are people who pose minimal
risks to the perpetrators--including little old ladies by ATM's.
all theory aside, it's the ones that carry themselves with an edge--in my
neighborhood, that go unmolested more often then the ones that appear
unaware and mild-mannered. eye contact, greetings, and confidence go
a long way. my take on my neighborhood isn't jaded or exagerated, i was
just less concerned with it before having a family. that said. i'm done with
this series of messages. it's gotten too far off of the point, it hasn't tackled
the question i originally asked, and it was overly concerned with insights
into my character and not...

tactical strategies if you happen to be with non-fighting family members.

thanks Ben for the back up, but i think i'm not going to get the answer
i wanted from this so i'm just going to move on. in future, i'll keep my
criticisms less edgy--so we can all stay more focused. there's a cause
and affect side of this that i own up to, but lets not even pretend it was a real response. i've been keeping a balance between the street, the job,
and everything else for years.
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PostSubject: Re: a paradox...your thoughts?   Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:37 pm

Sorry, I should say again Russell, I'm not being critical of you personally and I'm not particularly backing Tom up. I think I've missed the posts your talking about between him and Richie.

If in my post you replace all the "You" with "Some people" my point is better made.

Your post is an interesting one Russell and it does indeed highlight an issue we all have to deal with. Training realistically with awareness of what real violence is like but balancing that with not feeling paranoid about how much danger we're actually in at any given time.
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PostSubject: Re: a paradox...your thoughts?   Sat Aug 23, 2008 7:15 am

I thought about what you said Adam..

I get what Tom is saying, I just felt that he looking to far into it and it was a bit much from that to suggest that Russel needs therapy.

And also Russel I quite like and respect this..

Quote :
i will just say that whatever my human
flaws are, i'm capable of seeing/hearing the truth and processing
it and moving forward.

I know sometimes I may get a little 'edgy' in my responses as well.. and sometimes reading something on a forum its hard to really get where somebody is coming from..

Thats why its good for people to challenge each others difference of opinion. I know that atleast it gets me thinking Very Happy


-Ben
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PostSubject: Re: a paradox...your thoughts?   Sat Aug 23, 2008 11:28 am

may one just add:

Ben, Adam and Russell, you are having an intelligent reasoned debate with some conflicting points of view which is all groovy and what forums are for...

Tom1985 has an agenda, Ive banned him but he will be back. He was sniping at Russell and fo shiz talking to him in a way that he would NOT if we were all sat in a bar together face to face.

Also want to say that, Im not a politically correct mong, but some of Toms post was just plain racist. Im not having it.

Are you all familiar with the notion of a toxic personality?

http://www.greenwood.com/catalog/C6017.aspx

google "destructive narcissistic pattern"

I lived and worked with people like this for years and you cannot win with them. They have been known to even drive Psychiatrists crazy! They will make you feel perpetually insulted, demeaned and frustrated but in such a subtle sneaky way you never notice until your feeling like crap every time you talk to them- and you dont know why, so being a reasonable person you blame yourself.

The other thing these DNP personailities (or "twats" as I like to call them) do is revel in causing arguments between people.

Now Im not going to delete the clinically twattish post because i want people to see it, study it and understand what is happening, but I really think you guys should go back to making your original points

and please... try and observe some considerations for objectivity and subjectivity

ie

try and make your posts as objective, specific and clear as possible in a succint way

and be aware of what the other peoples subjective experience of reading your posts is...
for example, if you post after someone they will think you are responding to them tit for tat, when often you are standing next to them looking at the same issue and just giving your point of view... so make it clear and be careful of your use of the word "you" Razz I sound like my english teacher (and my posts are filled with the misuse of the word "you" even this one is you see?)

Often when you say "you" you mean "one". So what "one" should write is that "one" feels that delivering a savage headbutt to the nose of a felon is a fine opener with which "one" may follow through with a veritable shit storm of violence.

SO

more ojectivity... and more swearing... none of you swear and it makes "one" fucking nervous

ps not sure what the answer is to your first post Russell, but I tend to think if my mind is going down these lines Im giving myself to much time to think and probably not managing my state very well: I have never felt threatened when in a deliriously good mood, walking as fast as i can to catch a lift to go somewhere I really want to go whilst simultaneously texting my mate and diggin a number Ive written down on piece of paper in my wallet at the same time as wondering how good Keely Hazell would look on my bedroom floor etc etc etc

do you know what I mean?


Last edited by Richard Grannon on Sat Aug 23, 2008 11:39 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : one wanted to edit ones post)
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PostSubject: Re: a paradox...your thoughts?   Sat Aug 23, 2008 12:29 pm

yeah mate,
works for me. processing now.
many thanks sensei
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PostSubject: Re: a paradox...your thoughts?   Sun Aug 24, 2008 4:34 am

Yeah.. he was an 'interesting' character.

When you said this Richie, it got me curious..

Quote :
They have been known to even drive Psychiatrists crazy

I'm looking it up on wikipedia, just out of curiosity.. as i'm sure i've met people like this Shocked

Why does crazyness appeal more to me than normalness.. maybe i'm just a bit crazy myself.. Laughing

I get what you mean about 'one' and 'you' I never thought of that before.. things do get confused in that way because sometimes its hard to know who one is talking to.

cherry

-Ben
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PostSubject: Re: a paradox...your thoughts?   Sun Aug 24, 2008 4:52 am

And about the fucking swearing..

I do swear sometimes.. but I just get used to most forums where they don't really let you swear and it censors it out..

-Ben
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PostSubject: Re: a paradox...your thoughts?   Sun Aug 24, 2008 9:00 am

Fuckin' right! Try swearing on the snowboarding forum I also dabble in and they have a right fit about it Razz
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PostSubject: Re: a paradox...your thoughts?   Sun Sep 28, 2008 10:31 pm

...can't say for sure if this is 'the' truth or just mine.
i'll try (famous last words...) and be bried without being too cryptic:
-Richie helped with his mindset of thinking more like part of the terrain (sadhu/city-bum that i may ascribe to be--ish)
keeping it light. it helped, ALOT, but i knew there was still something more. or that i just needed to drop it altogether
-the part that i also needed reflected my relationship with my mom--in no uncertain terms i was her protector... i mean
full 'switched on' bat shit crazy if i had to be protector.
nothing ever sat right like that again. it was because she and i knew our roles implicately (sp?). we dichotomized into her being
the rescu-ee, and me being the devil. these roles were explored about a handful of times.

the missing piece was that her confidence in my role, her total acceptance in what i was there for--which included her stepping
back and watching the show, and being supportive/accepting/adoring about it, made all the pieces fit together.

like i said, this may only be my truth. in short i discovered that i was really reluctant but willing to offer anything similar to my ex
wife. she was the ultimate psych down. a cheating/derogatory/low-esteem parasite that sucked confidence and kept my undefined
as to what the fuck i was to her.

so in short (hmmm...) the missing other piece was getting people on board so they knew what role i was to play if ever such a thing
presented itself. this simple act allowed me the metaphorical switch i used to hold inside. i feel like i could switch on this animal again
at will. it may not be someone elses truth but for anyone who understands what i'm ranting on about, it's as simple as this:

if you have a psychological vampire in your life, take steps to remedy this. those close to you should accept how you perceive yourself,
and be on board, or at least aware of who you may have to be in their company.
my wife and i have an agreement. it is based off of running first, but leaving me to it second. i'm more than satiated with this missing piece.
nuff'said
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PostSubject: Re: a paradox...your thoughts?   Mon Sep 29, 2008 11:52 am

...or shorter than that. everyone knows their place and there's no more
guessing.


believe it or not. that alone contributes to lifting the heaviness of the subject matter to where i don't really feel fixated anymore. and the running part really should be implicit, but it was negotiated because my wife suspected that i really just wanted everyone else out of the way while i set about issuing a punishment Twisted Evil jocolor geek
don't know where she got that idea scratch study Sleep pig
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