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p.j



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PostSubject: Worked for me...   Mon Aug 11, 2008 11:32 pm

Hi guys im new to this forum so i think i should begin by saying hi to you all. Smile

I came across this video the other day, and can say that i'm glad i did.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shPj5xidsQo&feature=related

you see, because on saturday night at about 3 in the morning a group of pissed up chav's in there late teens early 20's decided to smash the wing mirrors off my car and also set about kicking the doors in. so i got on the phone to the cops, and while i was waiting for them to show up, me and my brother ventured outside to at least stop them damaging my car any more. After a few words was exchanged they decided to square up to us both. there was 5 of them and 2 of us. im only 22 and not that big, and i think that if i hadn't seen this vid i would have been pretty intimadated, but i remembered the first part about keeping cool and confident. i had 3 lads in my face doing the "head pecking" and "hot stepping" waving their arms about and shouting a load of abuse in my face, you know the stuff " I'M GOING TO F@CKING KNOCK YOU OUT, SMASH YOUR FACE IN, KILL YOU" etc etc. but all i did was stand there calm and casual, looked at them and calmly said "OK" and smiled. they suddenly stopped shouting, and backed away - but still giving me abuse. It was as if i had put fear into all 3 lads.

I couldn't believe it lol.

so i just wanted to say thanks for sharing that technique.
and it really does work Smile
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cocktail

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PostSubject: Re: Worked for me...   Tue Aug 12, 2008 3:49 am

Glad to hear it worked for you! Also glad nothing else happened. Its funny messing with someones head isnt it :-)

Btw, welcome to the forum :-)
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Richard Grannon
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PostSubject: Re: Worked for me...   Tue Aug 12, 2008 10:14 am

Hi PJ

Cool
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p.j



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PostSubject: Re: Worked for me...   Tue Aug 12, 2008 8:01 pm

Police ended up doing F... all because i couldn't say which ones done what... Mad Mad

But cheers cocktail Smile
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Tom1985



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PostSubject: Re: Worked for me...   Wed Aug 13, 2008 3:39 am

Quote :
all i did was stand there calm and casual, looked at them and calmly said "OK" and smiled.

Hey I'm glad it worked this time for you but it sounds like the guys just weren't too serious to begin with. Sounds like they just wanted to frighten you. It didn't work and they just didn't wanna take it further. Not to take away from your victory but if I were you, I wouldn't really ever do that again unless I was SURE that the guys bluffing...

If it was 2 vs 5, I would go rummage for some baseball bats or something (if it was parked outside your house) or for some random junk from the street and just scare them outta there by running at em like a maniac and screaming "get away from my fucking car!! I'll kill you!!" (and beating them if they chose to stay).

Casual + calm + accepting insults = Prey

If that doesn't make any sense to you then I guess you just live in one of "those" neighborhoods..
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Richard Grannon
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PostSubject: Re: Worked for me...   Wed Aug 13, 2008 8:32 am

Tom1985 wrote:
Quote :
all i did was stand there calm and casual, looked at them and calmly said "OK" and smiled.

Hey I'm glad it worked this time for you but it sounds like the guys just weren't too serious to begin with. Sounds like they just wanted to frighten you. It didn't work and they just didn't wanna take it further. Not to take away from your victory but if I were you, I wouldn't really ever do that again unless I was SURE that the guys bluffing...

If it was 2 vs 5, I would go rummage for some baseball bats or something (if it was parked outside your house) or for some random junk from the street and just scare them outta there by running at em like a maniac and screaming "get away from my fucking car!! I'll kill you!!" (and beating them if they chose to stay).

Casual + calm + accepting insults = Prey

If that doesn't make any sense to you then I guess you just live in one of "those" neighborhoods..

hang on a sec

Quote :
It didn't work and they just didn't wanna take it further.

1. how do you know that from the written description of a scenario you werent present at?

Quote :
If it was 2 vs 5, I would go rummage for some baseball bats or something (if it was parked outside your house) or for some random junk from the street and just scare them outta there by running at em like a maniac and screaming "get away from my fucking car!! I'll kill you!!" (and beating them if they chose to stay).

2. you're saying if you were being fronted in the street outside your house by a group of chavs kicking your car, you would go into the car and get a baseball bat? then what?
... are you seriously advising people to run around the street throwing " junk" and screaming threats???

Quote :

Casual + calm + accepting insults = Prey

3. sure about that?
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p.j



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PostSubject: Re: Worked for me...   Wed Aug 13, 2008 5:18 pm

Quote :
Hey I'm glad it worked this time for you but it sounds like the guys just weren't too serious to begin with

They were serious enough to smash my car up so i guess they were serious when they came squaring up to me... but i could be wrong... but round by mine you see gangs of chavs causing trouble all the time and 95% of the time they out number the victims, and as a result the victims do nothing and the chavs end up getting away with it.

Quote :
If it was 2 vs 5, I would go rummage for some baseball bats or something (if it was parked outside your house) or for some random junk from the street and just scare them outta there by running at em like a maniac and screaming "get away from my fucking car!! I'll kill you!!" (and beating them if they chose to stay).

But i wanted them to hang about until the police got here. It would have looked bad if they were on the floor bleeding and me and my brother was stood there with bats and all as the police arrive. The GM police are the type that don't use common sense, they would just have bang me and my bro up. all i wanted was the twats to pay for the damage.... but as i said before .... the police told me they can't do any because i cant link each chav to the damage that - that chav caused. Which i think is a load of shit.... all they did was take their names Mad Mad Mad
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Tom1985



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PostSubject: Re: Worked for me...   Fri Aug 15, 2008 3:33 am

to Richard Grannon

Quote :
2. you're saying if you were being fronted in the street outside your house by a group of chavs kicking your car, you would go into the car and get a baseball bat? then what?
... are you seriously advising people to run around the street throwing " junk" and screaming threats???

I didn't say if you get fronted, I said that's what I would do before I got out of the house if I wanted to get them out of there so they don't do anymore damage. It's either scare them off and attack if necessary or stay in the house and call the cops. Looking at the situation now maybe calling the cops was the better solution. That way they would have driven right onto the scene and witnessing the drunks wrecking the car. That way it would have been pretty much undeniable.

Quote :
... are you seriously advising people to run around the street throwing " junk" and screaming threats???

I'm not advising anybody to do anything, I said that's what I would do. if I had to advise the average person I would tell them to call the cops and let them handle it, which is almost always the right thing to do if you don't wanna get hurt.

Quote :
1. how do you know that from the written description of a scenario you werent present at?

You're right, I looked into it too much. I was just under the impression that p.j. misunderstood the video and thought that it works just like that, as if just being confident will save you in every situation. there's no 100% foolproof jedi mind trick and if it's 2 against 5, you shouldn't go out relying on that. If you they attacked you and you couldn't outfight them, then you'd have been in serious trouble.

P.J. - If I looked into it too much and got it wrong then I hope you don't take it personally.

Quote :
Quote:

Casual + calm + accepting insults = Prey


3. sure about that?

If that's all you're showing then yeah, I'm dead sure about it. If it's part of a layered act that somebody very experienced with lots of confidence plays, then that's a different story. the examples you showed in the video would probably work for most people if they used it as a step by step technique. But having 5 unknown guys yelling threats at you and just smiling and saying OK isn't a good idea for most people to try.

It worked for him which is good, but my point was that people shouldn't read this and be like "Ok, that's what I'll do if it happens to me then!".

The drunks probably just wanted to wreck something, but weren't serious enough to hurt somebody in the process. There are many different types of people out there and situations like this should always be treated seriously.
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p.j



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PostSubject: Re: Worked for me...   Fri Aug 15, 2008 1:42 pm

don't worry about it tom i don't take it personally.
i know what your getting at. lol

But i didn't allow the lads to come and square up to me knowing all i had was a smile and an "ok" ive had it taught to me since i was a 6/7 years old by my dad that if that type of situation arises .... take out the biggest, loudest ,meanest looking one first lol,

so i mean that i wasn't stood there thinking "ill smile and say ok but if they hit me then ill stand around and do nothing"

i was acutally thinking that there really isn't a need for this situation to get physical seeing as the police was on its way, so i would try richies method to try and stop a potential fight before it starts, but be rest asured that if 1 of them was to make a move that i took as a real threat to me then i would have unloaded my fists. Just from their body language i was 95% certain that if they had started throwing punches.... then it would have been big swinging hay maker style shots and i was ready to land a straight right to his chin.

Ive seen it a few times now here in rochdale and in birkenhead and im sure most of you guy's will have too where you are,
a group of lads shouting bouncing waving their hands/fists about trying to intimadate who ever they are wanting to fight, and as soon as the ring leader/front man, as been taken care of the rest of the group almost give in. it's asif they were pinning their hope on the ring leader to get them through the ruck, but once the loud-mouth, 10 men is out of the picture then it's a different story.... if this makes sense?? lol

and thats the impression i got from the lads i was having trouble with, and that why i was focusing in on taking out the one that had the most to say and do.

Still thought i could have been totally wrong and got fucked up, but i was using my own judgement along with the technique i seen richie doing and for me @ that moment i worked amazingly.
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Richard Grannon
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PostSubject: Re: Worked for me...   Fri Aug 15, 2008 4:19 pm

Tom 1985

You just contradicted yourself and then tried to make it sound like that was your whole point all along.

You are welcome to make suggestions with the caveat "in my humble opinion" to people on my forum but if I think you are talking horeshit I reserve the right to say " you are talking horseshit".

You just said you were "dead certain" that whenever someone is calm and accepts threats that they "= prey"... thats how you expressed it... with an equal sign and the word "prey".

I put it to you that

Casual + calm + accepting insults DOES NOT = Prey as you originally stated... yes or no?
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Tom1985



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PostSubject: Re: Worked for me...   Fri Aug 15, 2008 6:09 pm

Richard, my original post obviously displeased you. It must have been the equation thing...

Well all I can say is that initially I didn't fully understand p.j.'s situation and saw it completely different than now that he's shed some light on it.

You guys are all talking as if there are some kind of cozy rules of the universe that keep you safe, like "If you hit the biggest and loudest, then the whole gang runs away" and Richard trying to say that if anybody takes insults and threats with a smile that the attacker's gonna shit his pants thinking that you're just a VERY humble shaolin monk.

The biggest and loudest rule for example, that's a schoolyard thing, or a teenager thing... ..I've known several people who fought as a gang whoever the hell got attacked first or taken out it didn't matter.

I also got away with the smile technique myself on some occasions, yet on another I actually took out the guy who was doing the "casual, calm" thing on me. I gotta say the trick worked though, cause I thought he was alot stronger than he actually was, but the point is, it didn't stop me, why would it stop the next guy?

Jedi mind tricks shouldn't be relied on, which is what I was trying to say from the first place. No amount of NLP will save you from somebody who really wants to attack you.
Quote :
Casual + calm + accepting insults DOES NOT = Prey as you originally stated... yes or no?

Richard, you seem to be trying to drive home the contrary opinion with that statement. You're saying that, YES, it's enough to be nice to the other person and they won't ever see you as prey for it.
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p.j



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PostSubject: Re: Worked for me...   Fri Aug 15, 2008 6:53 pm

Im not having a go at you tom, i just originally posted to share an experience with every one, saying that i used richies technique and it worked for me at that time, in that situation. It stopped a potential fight before it began, thats all, im not telling people to stand around and smile if some one is kicking off on them.

im just telling people about a personal experience where me remaining calm was the best result on the night, and not losing my rag and chasing people down the road with a bat or what ever i could find laying about as you suggested.

Quote :
Jedi mind tricks shouldn't be relied on, which is what I was trying to say from the first place. No amount of NLP will save you from somebody who really wants to attack you.

Yeah i know but i though i could either give it a go and see if i could make them think again OR just start hitting the lads possibally resulting in an all out 2 ON 5 fight....... WHICH ONE WOULD YOU SAY IS BETTER TOM?

Quote :
The biggest and loudest rule for example, that's a schoolyard thing, or a teenager thing... ..I've known several people who fought as a gang whoever the hell got attacked first or taken out it didn't matter.

As i said before ive seen the people this usually works on and the lads fitted the picture.... late teens / early twenties chavs - all mouth and no experience.... probly closest they have been to learning to fight is - watching the training sequence on the rocky films lol

NOT 20's - 40's big burley bruisers that look like they have experience in fighting.
If it had been fellas that looked like they were handy, i wouldn't have done it seeing as i don't do any training. I'm just an average joe with some but not loads of experience in fighting, although im not scared of people i would rather have a situation end without violence.

But at the end of the day i used my own judgement and and a non aggressive technique and it paid off.
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Tom1985



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PostSubject: Re: Worked for me...   Fri Aug 15, 2008 9:03 pm

P.j., My only problem was that you connected your situation to the video.

Even though I know you didn't mean it that way, people take it as "Wow, it really works, repeating the videos step by step will solve all my street fighting problems"*. It's not that the videos are bad in any way, they're actually very enlightening. It's just that giving people the impression that you resolved the situation from watching and repeating what was done in some video clip is dangerous advertising.Other people could get hurt if they take it at face value.

I was just surprised nobody else pointed it out and was trying to put it into context.

*Since you explained the situation more clearly, I understand you were obviously not blindly following video clip instructions. You acted understanding of what the situation was. Your initial post on the other hand, reflected something totally different:
Quote :
so i just wanted to say thanks for sharing that technique.
and it really does work Smile
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Richard Grannon
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PostSubject: Re: Worked for me...   Sat Aug 16, 2008 10:40 am

Quote :
jedi mind tricks shouldn't be relied on, which is what I was trying to say from the first place. No amount of NLP will save you from somebody who really wants to attack you.
Quote:
Casual + calm + accepting insults DOES NOT = Prey as you originally stated... yes or no?


Richard, you seem to be trying to drive home the contrary opinion with that statement. You're saying that, YES, it's enough to be nice to the other person and they won't ever see you as prey for it.

I have a special level of contempt reserved for those folk who play word games to avoid and obscure criticial objective thought.

Tom you cant have it all ways mate. Stop trying to put words in my mouth and answer my question which was put to you plainly enough.

Casual + calm + accepting insults DOES NOT = Prey as you originally stated... yes or no?

simple question Tom, the answer is either YES or it is NO... which is it?
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RichardB



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PostSubject: Re: Worked for me...   Sat Aug 16, 2008 1:42 pm

I agree with Tom here when he says "Jedi mind tricks shouldn't be relied upon" but a key thing here is that you're not relying upon it. It does in no way replace fighting ability. It is only one layer of the approach. You can get away with not being able to back it up, but you really should have a solid ability and immediate plan B in case it breaks down. That is the general idea and I'm pretty sure this is mentioned in the video.

Needlessly escalating it into a place where you have no choice but to fight is generally not a good idea. When you run out there with that bat threatening to kill them. If you're bluffing they will have no fear or respect of you if you do not immediately attempt to do so. The only option is to fight. De-escalation at that point is no longer available. If it reaches court then you caused the fight, even though they may have totalled your car. And if it is possible to resolve this by de-escalating then it is far better than risking being stomped and/or stabbed by five guys. If you win the fight, you'll likely lose in court. If you lose the fight, will you lose your life? Or recieve permanent debilitating injuries?

These are always risks in a fight. Why take it there unless you have to?

The "Jedi mind tricks" are for trying to avoid having to go to that level. Always with the understanding that it may not work and to draw a line at some point where you are not willing to risk standing around any longer. You are ready for plan B, to pre-emptively attack or retaliate if they start it.

At that point you are locked into the fight, but you did try to avoid it for as long as you were willing to risk it, and if you were sincere you should be able to defend this in a court. In many cases there will be no fight - you've won - but if it continues to escalate, the fight is what it is. There are no guarantees outside of the laws of physics. But there is a good chance that if you demolish the guy that does the talking, and move on to the next target, making examples out of them as best you can - blitzkrieg - that it can put doubt into the minds of them, and if this makes them run, great. If not then the fight still is what the fight is, in any case you continue until you win or have lost. Same as if you had gone in immediately screaming threats.

But again, why take it there unless you need to? The people in graves and the prisoners who put them there didn't plan for themselves to go to those places, but they're there. Shit happens. Fights have resulted in years of corrective surgery, drooling retards and broken backs and necks. "It's fun until someone loses an eye." There is no call for paranoia and phobia about fights, but these are very real risks which are good reasons for giving the psychological angle it's place before anything else. Even more so when outnumbered.

It is not about being nice to them, it's about not feeding into that kind of interaction, which would normally only escalate up to either a fight or one part being intimidated into submission. It is really a feeling-out stage where each part is trying to figure out what kind of guy the other is. The mind trick is to not escalate, not give them much to go on as for feeling you out and not providing them with any rationalization or excuse for attacking you, which they will seek. No bad guy is a bad guy in his own mind. "Yeah I raped and killed those babies but that's just because of X or Y, they had it coming." Simultaneously you're not being submissive or acting frightened. It's just too many unknowns for most people to just jump in. And if they do; plan B.

Tom, in the beginning of this thread, I think you said something that made sense to you, and to be fair it isn't without merit. I would perhaps have chosen a knife however as it tends to be more intimidating and more effective when they stay to fight, seeing that going all out is at that point the only option. The problems with the approach have been outlined above. If I was a thug living that lifestyle, fighting other thugs, this is the approach I might find more appealing. It'll give you a reputation as a hardass, problems with the law, all good things that you can brag to other thugs about. Otherwise it isn't a good one...

As the discussion has developed it looks like you have painted yourself into a corner, trying to not look like an ass, and to salvage your point. Be careful with putting too much ego into things. You are not your forum posts. But the ego influence can make you feel as if it actually matters. People get pissed off, feel miserable, or whatever. That's when people become defensive, and try to wiggle their way out of the hot spot and be right, or at least not be wrong. It's stupid. It looks stupid. I've done it many times. But you learn more when you let it go. You can choose to swallow you pride at such times if you catch yourself doing it or you can choose not to. This is just what it looks like from where I'm sitting.
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p.j



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PostSubject: Re: Worked for me...   Sat Aug 16, 2008 2:25 pm

Quote :
When you run out there with that bat threatening to kill them.
????? I never did this ?????

Quote :
Tom, in the beginning of this thread, I think you said something that made sense to you, and to be fair it isn't without merit. I would perhaps have chosen a knife however as it tends to be more intimidating and more effective when they stay to fight, seeing that going all out is at that point the only option.

Do you not understand when i said i had called the cops and was waiting for them to arrive, I didn't want to scare them off down the road, i wanted to keep them there so that it would become a police matter - hoping i would be compensated for the damage. Would have been a very clever thing to be seen with a knife , by the police. Rolling Eyes Besides maybe next time i see them in the street, they could all carrying blades to get me?? I would rather take a beating off 3 lad than get stabbed off 5.

Quote :
It's just that giving people the impression that you resolved the situation from watching and repeating what was done in some video clip is dangerous advertising

If i was watch a video of some one doing an arm-bar i would take that step by step technique to a gym and practice it there and practice it during sparring. But as far as i can think of the only way to try out the "staying calm" technique is by doing it in a real situation, but please enlighten me if you know another way.

I know for a fact that if i hadn't seen the video i would have just lost my rag and let my emotions get the better of me - probly resulting in me throwing wild swinging punches....... But even if the staying calm hadn't have worked, i would have still been in a better mind set and would have fought better. I KNOW THIS WOULD DEFFO HAVE WORKED FOR ME.

Quote :
As the discussion has developed it looks like you have painted yourself into a corner, trying to not look like an ass, and to salvage your point. Be careful with putting too much ego into things. You are not your forum posts. But the ego influence can make you feel as if it actually matters. People get pissed off, feel miserable, or whatever. That's when people become defensive, and try to wiggle their way out of the hot spot and be right, or at least not be wrong. It's stupid. It looks stupid. I've done it many times. But you learn more when you let it go. You can choose to swallow you pride at such times if you catch yourself doing it or you can choose not to. This is just what it looks like from where I'm sitting.

seems a little patronizing - but maybe it's just me
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RichardB



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PostSubject: Re: Worked for me...   Sat Aug 16, 2008 2:58 pm

p.j wrote:
Quote :
When you run out there with that bat threatening to kill them.
????? I never did this ?????

Quote :
Tom, in the beginning of this thread, I think you said something that made sense to you, and to be fair it isn't without merit. I would perhaps have chosen a knife however as it tends to be more intimidating and more effective when they stay to fight, seeing that going all out is at that point the only option.

Do you not understand when i said i had called the cops and was waiting for them to arrive, I didn't want to scare them off down the road, i wanted to keep them there so that it would become a police matter - hoping i would be compensated for the damage. Would have been a very clever thing to be seen with a knife , by the police. Rolling Eyes Besides maybe next time i see them in the street, they could all carrying blades to get me?? I would rather take a beating off 3 lad than get stabbed off 5.

Quote :
As the discussion has developed it looks like you have painted yourself into a corner, trying to not look like an ass, and to salvage your point. Be careful with putting too much ego into things. You are not your forum posts. But the ego influence can make you feel as if it actually matters. People get pissed off, feel miserable, or whatever. That's when people become defensive, and try to wiggle their way out of the hot spot and be right, or at least not be wrong. It's stupid. It looks stupid. I've done it many times. But you learn more when you let it go. You can choose to swallow you pride at such times if you catch yourself doing it or you can choose not to. This is just what it looks like from where I'm sitting.

seems a little patronizing - but maybe it's just me

Are you Tom? Wink

Most of that stuff refers mainly to Tom1985's first post in this thread.

Tom1985 wrote:
Quote :
all i did was stand there calm and casual, looked at them and calmly said "OK" and smiled.

Hey I'm glad it worked this time for you but it sounds like the guys just weren't too serious to begin with. Sounds like they just wanted to frighten you. It didn't work and they just didn't wanna take it further. Not to take away from your victory but if I were you, I wouldn't really ever do that again unless I was SURE that the guys bluffing...

If it was 2 vs 5, I would go rummage for some baseball bats or something (if it was parked outside your house) or for some random junk from the street and just scare them outta there by running at em like a maniac and screaming "get away from my fucking car!! I'll kill you!!" (and beating them if they chose to stay).

Casual + calm + accepting insults = Prey

If that doesn't make any sense to you then I guess you just live in one of "those" neighborhoods..

I probably am patronizing. But, I'm not deliberately trying to rag on anyone here. Just giving my .02 and with the caveat that I could be getting this whole thing ass backwards. I am probabaly far more ego driven than I would care to admit to myself. Anyway, read it in the tone of someone discussing the finer points of quantum mechanics as applied to knitting, if it helps. To the best of my memory I do not think I ever had an angry moment of writing in that post. Just neutral. But don't fall asleep. Sleep
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p.j



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PostSubject: Re: Worked for me...   Sat Aug 16, 2008 4:38 pm

No worrie RichardB lol

next time i might try this... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pB5W_N7RQUI affraid affraid affraid
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Tom1985



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PostSubject: Re: Worked for me...   Sat Aug 16, 2008 5:46 pm

Quote :
I have a special level of contempt reserved for those folk who play word games to avoid and obscure criticial objective thought.

You must hate yourself then, cause you're latching on to every word I say, nitpicking and dissecting my post endlessly...


What's so hard to understand? The answer is that being calm,casual and accepting insults is the equivalent of leaving your front door open. Put it in the right neighborhood at the right time of day, and you're gonna get robbed. Acting that way, in the end, is just being passive.

Are you really relying on the other guy to be like "wow, this guy's staying so casual and calm even after all the death threats, I better not mess with him cause that MIGHT mean that he MIGHT have some kind of hidden advantage.... ..hmm the odds are a million to one, I better not take that chance!"

I know for a fact that somebody who was ready to hurt you from the beginning wouldn't be bothered by this "technique" one bit. Is that clear enough of an answer for you Richard Grannon?
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Richard Grannon
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PostSubject: Re: Worked for me...   Sun Aug 17, 2008 8:24 am

Hey forum warrior Very Happy


no mate its really NOT clear enough for me ... Ive asked you a very simple question twice and twice you've wriggled out of it as best you can by trying to put words into my mouth.
That kind of tactic might work with some people "Tom" but you know, Im intellectually vain enough to believe Im capable of some objective, critical thinking, which in this case is unlucky for you. Razz

So... third time is a charm... here we go:

I put it to you (again) that:
calm + accepting threats DOES NOT = prey as originally stated, is your answer "YES" (positive/agree) or "NO" (negative/disagree)?

can I also politely suggest you start your next post with either a "Yes" or a "No", then go on to give some kind of "qualified" explanation. T
hat doesnt mean that you are "qualified" like being a qualified oxygen thief or adolescent loudmouth know it all, it means that your argument is "qualified" with some objective facts or evidence and a clear straightforward presentation of your point of view, not just the way you would like reality to work.

Answer the simple YES/NO question, is that clear enough for you Thomas?


ps thanks RichardB, I was getting a headache. Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Worked for me...   Sun Aug 17, 2008 7:53 pm

wow...i missed alot.
i just wanted to say 'good on ya' to PJ. after i got jacked up badly years ago, it took a long time to get my confidence back. i suspect
that you can't sell a 'wolf-ticket' like that unless you carry with you a wee bit of confidence--good for you i reckon. when i did get my
confidence back, gradually, i found myself playing a mind-game or two (thinking my head had to be the biggest muscle, okay my
brain). but i don't think i would have pulled it off totally without a little fire in my belly. two guys were going to rob me ex-wife and i...
we were coming out of a club at 2 or 3 (she was washing dishes in a punk bar/club and i was walking her home). they moved toward
us like synchronized swimmers. i had an angry kind of calm, even though i felt that things could go really badly. i had an instinct to move
my hand in a gesture that looked like i 'had my hand on my gun'. i did this feeling i was playing into a value system they had as
robbers. i felt really hyped and crazy enough to have a plan B. and i was working on the assumption of 'increasing their perception
of risk'. i did virtually the same thing again when i was a young lad naked at the end of a parking lot in a car with a girl (don't ask...
fucking idiot in retrospect). all i could do (two again) was hold my expression in a way that really did reflect how i was feeling. i wanted
to not fight two people in the nude, i wanted the girl to be safe, so i made this ridiculous gesture because i felt my mind was stronger
then theirs--collectively. i really can't say what i would have done. i had less experience then, but i felt angry enough to skin them
alive for this shit, i meant they were probably more than just robbers. i'm glad they took my 'gun' bluff. i never do this any more. i try
and not put confidence in real weapons, or in imagined weapons. that way i always feel psychologically covered. all this to say, i believe
you wouldn't just sit there--attitude wise, if they didn't call your bluff. maybe you can use the image in your head to figure out some
possible scenarios for how to act (dad says biggest one, take him out...etc). i like Richie's advice, in cultivating a real violent intent.
it translates. nothing has remotely happened to me in a long time, but i want someone to feel like they are very unlucky, like they've
just inherited their worst day on earth...like they've just met the devil and should have stayed at home and watched t.v.. i try and take
the mind stuff to heart and couple it with drills that build speed, and a predatory mindset. i always feel from many more of my near
misses, than real fights, that i was sucking the life out from them when i took their minds/hearts. sorry if this goes on too long. i've been
around long enough to know that some people have all confidence and nothing to back it up--i'm not validating those people. i've
watched my lunatic father out psych people all his life, because i think somewhere deep down inside he thinks he can do anything. my dad
has taken a beating before (cab driver in a foreign country), but also issued at least one i know about. he's someone that should've
trained also (ha). but i reckon if you're writing to this site, you're training like the rest of us. the mind feels most important in that dual
partnership though.
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PostSubject: Re: Worked for me...   Sun Aug 17, 2008 9:29 pm

Forum warrior? You have your own forum Richard yet you don't seem to know what a forum is...

If you'd have ever spent 0.24 seconds searching "definition of forum" on google, this is what you would get:
Quote :
a. The public square or marketplace of an ancient Roman city that was the assembly place for judicial activity and public business.
b. A public meeting place for open discussion.
c. A medium of open discussion or voicing of ideas, such as a newspaper or a radio or television program.

I've tried to be respectful in my posts and I think I've already mentioned that this is just a discussion and not something to take personally, yet whatever I say, you try to make me out like the bad guy just for having a different opinion?


Now, onto your question. You're asking me for a YES or a NO to a question that can't be answered so simply.

It's like if you asked me "Is the sky blue, YES or NO??? give me a clear answer!!" You can't answer that because the sky can be all sorts of colors depending on time of day, weather, location, etc.

In my initial post on this topic, I said:
Quote :
Casual + calm + accepting insults = Prey


I was obviously referring to P.J. and the situation I thought he was in. It was never a general statement for the world to live by, If I hadn't cleared that up so far, I hope this is straightforward enough.

Just a note about the video though, I don't know if your experiences as a bouncer really translate into something that might work for regular people on the street. Maybe I'm wrong but don't bouncers deal mostly with "bar brawling" scenarios?, I'd say street crime is what the average person (who doesn't rot in some club on every possible occasion) would most likely encounter, right? And thats more like a cop's expertise not a bouncer's.

But anyways, just for the sake of the argument, how about you answer your own question? You're the expert after all!

I tried to answer as well as I could, but now let's see if you can actually pull it off while still respecting your own guidelines.

Here it is, this is what you asked of me:
Quote :

So... third time is a charm... here we go:

I put it to you (again) that:
calm + accepting threats DOES NOT = prey as originally stated, is your answer "YES" (positive/agree) or "NO" (negative/disagree)?

can I also politely suggest you start your next post with either a "Yes" or a "No", then go on to give some kind of "qualified" explanation. T
hat doesnt mean that you are "qualified" like being a qualified oxygen thief or adolescent loudmouth know it all, it means that your argument is "qualified" with some objective facts or evidence and a clear straightforward presentation of your point of view, not just the way you would like reality to work.
Go for it!
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PostSubject: Re: Worked for me...   Sun Aug 17, 2008 11:55 pm

Tom1985,
what're you doing mate? pick your battles. too much emotion i'm sensing. this site is dedicated to growing in actual street self defense.
i'm sure you're an okay bloke and all. i doubt whether you don't have something good to offer, but all this attention to detail sounds
more like a jilted lover. move on. learn about fighting. contribute about your experiences. do you really think this last diatribe isn't potentially
your swan song. crikey.
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PostSubject: Re: Worked for me...   Fri Aug 22, 2008 4:40 pm

Tom1985

thats now 3 times you've failed to answer a perfectly clear question

Quote :
I've tried to be respectful in my posts and I think I've already mentioned that this is just a discussion and not something to take personally, yet whatever I say, you try to make me out like the bad guy just for having a different opinion?

a "bad guy"? no, deliberately effusive? oh hell yeah!

I hate blanket statements, hate, hate hate them. Blanket statements like "calm + accepting insults= prey" -what utter drivvle!

its just NOT true

you made the statement, you failed to qualify it... yes this is a forum and if I want to stridently voice my opinion I bloody well will! Just because its my forum doesnt mean I have to assume the humble demanour of a bumbling customer services rep. In my opinion your just being an arse, either answer the question or please go away

dont bother trying to be respectful, I dont need it or ask for it- but I DEMAND (as far as I can on my forum) that you be TRUTHFUL and FORTHRIGHT





Quote :
But anyways, just for the sake of the argument, how about you answer your own question? You're the expert after all!

I tried to answer as well as I could, but now let's see if you can actually pull it off while still respecting your own guidelines. Go for it!

Does calm and accepting insults = prey? yes or no....

wait for it...

watch Tom, this is how you answer a direct questiion from the heart,

...you might just learn something here:

OH HELL NO! NO that statment is utter bollocks!!!! TOTAL BULLSHIT!
No

the answer is no

the direct answer to the direct and simple question is NO

your turn....

last chance compadre, either answer it or remove yourself please, I havent got time for this- dont bother being "respectful" just be direct and honest (and apologetic) like this:

"My blanket statement about how street fights work was unfortunately cat poop and didnt make sense, I am sorry I made it without qualifying it- I should of expresssed it as my humble opinion applicable only to the situation described, by making such a strong statement I came across as arrogant and a know all and I am sorry. By wiggling around and trying to avoid answering the question directly I only annoyed and frustrated the other forum members (who I appreciate were only trying to help me- thanks guys!) and Richard Grannon who I respect and admire greatly which is why I am here, posting on his forum at his high and mighty sufferance. I apologise oh great one for taking a snotty tone with you and doing your head in. I will now cut off my finger Yakuza style and repeat the mantra "I must not make blanket statements that bypass rational thought and be rude on other peoples forums" 1000 times- the answer to the question is of course NO, no, no a thousand times no! I am enlightened, I thank you master."

p.s.
Tom1985- your last post looked and felt a lot cleaner and adult from the "I would throw junk I found on the street and scream at them" Tom1985... did you write it? are you two people?

pps.
good question regarding the "bouncer frame" translating to street scenarios, I will come down from the mountain to answer it when I have:

- a "NO"
- a little apology, the bowing and scraping outlined above is not necessary, just nice for me
- a severed finger (ok, just the first two will do)
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PostSubject: Re: Worked for me...   Sat Aug 23, 2008 4:04 am

Richard, I don't feel like I owe anyone any apologies. You're constantly evading my arguments by simply asking me an unanswerable question over and over and by accusing me of putting words in your mouth. Those aren't arguments.

Just because Russel and some others here are blindingly convinced doesn't make your argumentation any less shallow (read non-existent).


So here are the two options, either we agree to disagree and look no further into this debate since it's obviously not going to amount to anything, or if it really displeases you to have somebody disagree with you on your forum, just delete my account.

ps I am a tool


Last edited by Richard Grannon on Sat Aug 23, 2008 10:52 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : childish delight)
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