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 Distrupting Balance.. Restraint and removal..

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Benjamin

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Join date : 2008-08-06

PostSubject: Distrupting Balance.. Restraint and removal..   Thu Aug 07, 2008 4:26 am

Hey Guys,
Just wondering if you know much about restraint and removal type tactics? I know in RBSD for the most part this isn't needed and its only needed if its required for a job or maybe the old 'drunk uncle' scenario.

In my experience.. when I trained with Glenn Zwiers he taught me an interesting concept called the 'fall line'.. for example get someone else so you can get this simple concept.

Get them to stand however, e.g left foot forward stance. And you draw a triangle between their feet on the diagonal.. either way and that is where they are weak in balance, and the opposite is where they are strong in balance. Its hard to explain with text, but a little experimentation will help you get it. Its just a simple way to think about it and to communicate it to beginners.

And when you are training takedowns or whatever, you keep in mind the fall line and utilize it to take them off balance.

Now takedowns are different than restraint and removal, though they are needed at times, most of the time you don't want to take them down, you want to take them out of the place.

I have found that from getting a grip of the 'fall line' from training, at times I am able to make up stuff and have it work. Only a few times have I been able to use 'technically correct' type things that i've trained, usually it just comes out as something totally different. This may be what your talking about in your 'smooth vs ragged movement' video.. but I have to wait until tonight to see it at my friends as I have a crap connection at my place. But thinking about it, I have found that trying to do the techniques smoothly as trained there is problems, but being ragged and just like 'boom' and putting it on works better, even if not technically correct. (if that makes any sense?)

I have found that learning about the fall line, balance points and using the fence and element of surprise and as soon as they engage if I explode into the movement and not give them a chance because as soon as they try to grab or attack me i'm not going to play around because they have shown intent.

Of course it is preferable to have somebody on their other arm, your backup.. but at times that is not possible, like they may be dealing with other people who are fighting so you both have your hands full.. so my belief, as I was taught by a mentor, 'prepare and train as if you have to do the job yourself, and if you have backup then even better'.. (of course always take backup when possible, as its not ALWAYS possible).

And the other option, is a little, soft shred type thing to distract them and then drag them out, or a little stunning shot..

I forget what my point was now, I did start with a point in mind.

I guess just to get more points and tips about this area from other people with experience, or even to just be told 'your off base there, how about doing it this way'..

And what training options do you have in this area Richie? I know that most of your clients don't need this type of training so you may not have thought about it much..

-Ben
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thugsage
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Join date : 2008-04-17
Age : 51
Location : Washington DC

PostSubject: Re: Distrupting Balance.. Restraint and removal..   Thu Aug 07, 2008 6:30 pm

i was restrained by a secret service dickhead once...he grabbed my hair tight against the scalp. he was out of line, and i had to play it
smart, but i didn't forget the feeling. if you're being 'professional' and someone's not really fighting back, just sort of trying to move
back out of control you can work the hair and cup the elbow while bending the hand (palm back against the forearm). that's something
i think will feel just uncomfortable enough for someone who really isn't fighting yet. and the guy's your size-ish
i don't know if this translates the way i wrote it...one hand twisting an arm, the other really gripping his hair.

but the mistake i've made is confusing minimum force with minimal force. if you aren't convincing enough, they tend to drag it on and on--
thinking you're some weak dickhead yourself. i had an experiance where i realized this mid-process (working security). i wasn't afraid or
threatened, but i was trying not to look like a thug. this had the reverse effect as the struggle went on and on. finally i applied maximum
speed and strength--more of your grappling sort of force, and bum-rushed him off the main area (where all could see). i think this pays
off. run that jerk full throttle like a animal into the back, let him feel your potential, then the softer stuff may be enough.

again, i'm really not talking about a fight here. i'm just saying that if you don't make enough of a power-showing right away, it may actually
turn into one. i got blind sided this way, i was lucky he was just trying to floor me (like a u.s. football ramming) and look good getting away.
he didn't--just wanted to throw that in, but i remember it well. a more dangerous person would have knocked me out with that kind of
explosive and surprising reaction.

i'm bald now--an aside to having my hair grabbed for the first time...hmmm the sacrifices we must make.
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daringdoer



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Join date : 2008-07-12

PostSubject: Re: Distrupting Balance.. Restraint and removal..   Fri Aug 08, 2008 7:28 am

Yo Ben, the old push/pull principle works great eg
1)U get chest to back, smack ur eyes ,over the perp's (taking away his sight,disorienting him,) then pull his head back to ur body so his face is parted up,u "push" with ur other hand on his eg his back/or his neck and walk fast with his head realigned up,plastered to ur body, his balance is lost and he will have to backpeddal really quickly to keep up with u!
Try out other variations eg in frontal situation, u forcefully push his jaw upward so his head is misaligned and staring at the sky, but instead of the conventional judo foot sweep, u stabalize his back by placing ur hand on his back. This pull/push fulcrum principle will make him lose his balance and u can easily rag him out of the bar.
Test it out with ur buds and get back
W
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