Its easier to crush a larynx than a beer can- Im stating this as fact... ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvPJqeAQRo8

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easier to crush a human larynx than an empty beer can... please assist!

At least he seems to mean well, larynxes are genuinely real serious targets, but as I said in there, they can take a bit more whacking than that before giving in.

I gave my two cents worth at the comments section. Cheers!

Hmmm, so the dude is saying that soft connective tissue cartilage structure of a larnyx can withstand more psi of X strike than a metal beer can
Warren

Asfi

is this you?

Quote :

Actually, it really does take more pressure to crush a beer can than the larynx.

Note, I used the word larynx. Not neck.

This can be pictured as two opposing forces facing inwards towards the larynx acting on the sides of the throat.

Very much like choking. The 2 handed, triangle and most chokes follow this principle.

And it really doesn't require much force. I know I didn't.

My 2 cents.

maybe the confusion here is the word "crush"? "crush" to me implies you have caused irreperable damage, you have squashed the larynx and flattened it permanently

also he is saying an EMPTY beer can, not a full one.

I couldnt hit hard enough to crush a full beer can and I seriously doubt even with a running jump I could hit someone hard enough to crush their larynx... unless they lay flat and I stamped on it.

A chop to the throat wont "crush" the larynx though!!!

Think about it: if I gave you a pig carcass and told you to crush its larynx flat by chopping it what do you think would happen? how many attempts do you think it would take before it was flat?
I suspect even with a dead pig lying still and open for repeated shots you wouldnt cause noticeable damage with the edge of your hand within 10 shots

The larynx and the surrounding structures will move and bend to absorb shock and the head will move backwards (there is no opposing force to hold the head still in the example I give)

Now Asfi if you are talking about straight bar chokes across the larynx (are you?) you can cause enough bruising and swelling to the area within a short period to cause death, but that still leaves the larynx uncrushed


Im open to testing this viewpoint with my own larynx any ideas how to do that? teach my girlfriend to chop a beer can flat then let her repeatedly twat me in the neck?

Enough fucking speculation.
I posted this question to the doctor. (Not the TARDIS doctor)
I'll post his answer when I get it.

Apologies, mates. Maybe I wasn't too clear.

I failed to point out the difference between frontal and side strikes to the larynx.

The question was pertaining to a front strike to the larynx, while I was explaining the dynamics of applied pressure to the sides.
Chokes work by either blocking one's air intake, or interfering with the flow of blood in the neck, or both.

The "empty beer can" or "unopened beer can" theory is relative.

On to striking.

A well aimed strike with enough force to the neck can plausibly cause a damaged (maybe crushed) larynx, which in turn can obstruct one's bronchi, thereby cutting off one's air supply.

By crushed, I don't mean like totally destroyed. Maybe squashed in from two parallel sides, or bent on two opposing areas? I don't know the term. All I know is that it's not "beer can crush" where it's all compacted.

IMHO, I think that maybe a strike to the front of the larynx must probably be damaging to the receiver, but a strike on each side of the larynx simultaneously is much more sever, possibly fatal.

I say this because one of my uncles suffers from a crushed larynx. He talks using a device that makes him sound like a monotone, tweedy Darth Vader.

It wasn't because of an accident. In the 70's, two of my uncles heavily participated in Muay Thai tournaments in Malaysia, in which they made some names for themselves. When they crossed the border to Thailand (to make bigger bucks, they say), they didn't expect the competition to be so fierce. Know that the sport wasn't as heavily regulated then as it is now. I think Bob Spour can vouch for that. So it was, in a "Tiger" fight, that one of my uncle received a left elbow and a haymaker to his larynx. His brother, my other uncle, said that it was so forceful that my uncle KO'd while still standing. He fell, blood flowing from his mouth and nose, and unable to breath, said my other uncle.

It took them quite some time to receive proper medical attention, since back then, there weren't any proper medics on site, but a local doctor who was on site (paid by the organisers, I'll bet) attended to my uncle. He did some sort of crude incision on my uncle's neck, I'm not so sure what the procedure was called, but it did help save my uncle's life while he was rushed to the hospital.

As it is, my uncle quit fighting professionally and now helps run a Muay Thai school his brother set up in Malaysia, though over there it's called Muay Kelate.

So, though I may have interpreted the question wrongly, and answered vaguely (or wrongly, I suppose, maybe due to a bad choice of words), I hope this reply could clear up some stuff. I hate typing. The fonts are just too small to see anymore. Also, English isn't really my native tongue, so it's difficult sometimes to get my ideas across. Well, at least there's still spellcheckers.

By the way, my whole family comes from a line of martial arts enthusiasts. Everyone in my family is a practitioner of at least one MA (usually silat).

Even my grandma.

No hard feelings for the miscommunications!

Cheers,
Asfi

ah thats cool asfi

when you say his larynx was damaged by a simultaneous elbow and haymaker... my understanding of the word "haymaker" is it implies like a long locked out punch, so was he caught with the forearm ? like a silat gunting to the neck with forearm?

that- that i wouldnt want doing to me, instinctivly I just think strikes to the bits either side of your larynx are too sensitive and Ive had first hand experience of messing with this location and getting weird results- in real fights and training...

I think Ive bored everyone plenty of times with the c grip causing an instant ko story... I used to do ninjitsu, one session we were practising a kata that had chops to the neck, after about 10 minutes we were all really nauseated and dizzy some of the lads chucked up

anyways, here is my video response

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlu2_1ECNBs

Email reply from my friend, a medical doctor:

Could certainly be lethal, primarily if it causes enough damage to crush the
trachea rings and/or enough swelling to obliterate the tracheal lumen/vocal
cords. The airway obstruction would be pretty quickly fatal w/o doing an
emergent cricothyrotomy. Not sure how much force is needed, but the
following lay article makes it sound like it would not require superhuman
efforts:

http://www.organicmma.com/Articles/Dec_07/071203_Throat_Trauma.html

I've seen a large hematoma in the neck from a post-surgical bleeding vessel
cause enough pressure/swelling to obliterate the airway. The outcome wasn't
good...

Hope this helps,

Carl Sagan wrote:

Email reply from my friend, a medical doctor:

Could certainly be lethal, primarily if it causes enough damage to crush the
trachea rings and/or enough swelling to obliterate the tracheal lumen/vocal
cords. The airway obstruction would be pretty quickly fatal w/o doing an
emergent cricothyrotomy. Not sure how much force is needed, but the
following lay article makes it sound like it would not require superhuman
efforts:

http://www.organicmma.com/Articles/Dec_07/071203_Throat_Trauma.html

I've seen a large hematoma in the neck from a post-surgical bleeding vessel
cause enough pressure/swelling to obliterate the airway. The outcome wasn't
good...

Hope this helps,

Quote :

primarily if it causes enough damage to crush the
trachea rings and/or enough swelling to obliterate the tracheal lumen/vocal
cords

WHICH IT DOESNT!

chop to throat "could" be lethal "if" it caused enough damage...

so could any technique

Check the video clip.
The human larynx is not crushed more easily than an empty beer can. End of speculation.

Yes Rich! You're all confident now, maybe even tonight when you're getting stuck into that curry! But you won't be laughing 2morrow mornin' when you're good wife nips through with a cup of tea to find you all bluey-white and staring up at the ceiling!!

How long did it take for the spinal fluid to pop out on your shirt last time? A good few hours after Bob had left I'll bet. Taking all yer biscuits with him!!

Seriously though great vid you're a tough fella. Keep it up with the DVD's all great stuff.

spooky... i did actually have a curry last night too

well the brian goo came out about 20 mins into shooting, on the unedited stuff you can hear me asking for more tissue to blow my nose with... but i didnt realise till the next morning when i commented to my flatmate, who is a doctor, "ummm, i woke up with a load of yellow fluid on my pillow" she observed me staggering drunkenly into the shower, whereupon i fell over and insisted I go to A+E... so the EFFECTS were immediate (after say the 20th shot to my head and 5th head rip takedown onto concrete ) I just didnt have the good sense to take notice of them

I could feel it when i swallowed food last night, but the effects were much much less than I expected.

Ah shit, i just remember who you were at the seminar! the youngest lad there who had done some muay thai?

I went to your class in Birkenhead back in March, certainly not the youngest -could've been the fattest!

Pity you aren't planning anymore for the time being, I took a lot home and it inspired a few workouts. Can't make Bob's seminars this time around but wouldn't mind enrolling if he should do another 6 mnth course afterwards.

I've done no formal training though you were impressed by my kneeing and elbows -all learnt off the videos!

ah thats right, I remember, your a bit of a natural as I recall, yeah try and get on Bob's next course if you can mate

Carl

please dont post on here when your pissed mate

but in answer to your point

Quote :

I have 17 empty beer cans next to me that says you are too busy trying to be right instead of learning about actual trauma to the larynx. Fuck these beer cans. No wait. They are okay, really.

Hang on a sec, lets just reclarify: I made a post about chopping people in the larynx, someone else, without my asking them too came along and told me publicly that I was WRONG for teching such a dangerous technique with the qualifier "the human larynx is easier to crush than an empty beer can- scientific fact"

I am not interested in learning about trauma to the larynx for its own sake! Why would I be?

Im not busy trying to be right, Im out to prove someone else who criticised me as WRONG which I have done. DEFINITIVELY. This is ridiculous, LOOK AT THE VIDEO!!!!

My larynx remains, uncrushed. Now I can tell from the comments that Ive upset a few peoples map of reality and we have people saying things like " you werent hit hard enough"

Look, Im sorry if Ive ruined peoples cherished little "fatal techniques" but its plain old fashioned run of the mill bullshit.

Its about the pursuit of truth and weeding out nimrods on youtube who make ridiculous claims.

Fuck all to do with trauma to the larynx- jesus christ If I wanted trauma to the larynx I would of done a straight bar choke/ stamp on the neck or used some kind of weapon.

So in answer your allegation that Im "too busy trying to be right" I say no... no i say! I was just dispelling the cherished myths of fantasy based self defence practising urban ninjas who think they hold the power of life and death in their hands because they know some techniques.

ITS NONSENSE!

trying to qualify things as scientific fact to support a wafty, silly argument is criminal in my view! thats how poor wazzacks all around the world get duped in to spending their money on bullshit styles

I defy it absolutely... Im not interrested in "trying to be right" for its own sake... except where I am right. WHICH IN THIS CASE I IRREFUTABLY WAS.

Is the human larynx as easily crushed as an empty beer can?

go watch video... um clearly not

Im sorry but whether this breaks one of the tactical urban ninja combatives favourite toys or not I dont give a shit... you are not as dangeorus to your opponent as you would like to believe.

case closed... unless someone wants to film themself failing to chop a beer can and actually crushing a larynx with one strike?

Ah rich maybe they meant chopping or striking the larynx with an axe !!

As rich said and PROVED, the trachea rings are designed to keep the tube OPEN. So if struck they will bounch back!! Unless it is ripped or cut it will bounce back. The body is designed very well, it is not a weak structure.

have you ever seen so much wiggling and bedwetting? go look at the utube comments!



just wait for the combative dudes to get onto this, they get really cross when you slaughter sacred cows like the "human body is made of bluetac and matchsticks" theory

Too many movies and books. Let them go out and do it....just piss the other guy off....then he batters them. Maybe they will understand/listen then.