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JS

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PostSubject: self esteem VS self image   Thu Jun 05, 2008 11:05 pm

I'm not very clear on this, any advice?
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Ben



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PostSubject: Re: self esteem VS self image   Fri Jun 06, 2008 4:59 am

If by self image you mean how you see yourself, then self esteem and self image are the same thing.
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JS

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PostSubject: Re: self esteem VS self image   Sat Jun 07, 2008 2:34 am

Thanks Ben I'm likely making many things more complex than they are in reality. Another thing to work on for me.
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Richard Grannon
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PostSubject: Re: self esteem VS self image   Sun Jun 08, 2008 5:38 pm

self image is how you percieve yourself

self esteem is how you value yourself

not the same thing gents pirat but both equally important for a healthy psychological outlook
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Ben



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PostSubject: Re: self esteem VS self image   Thu Jun 12, 2008 5:08 pm

Maybe this is what I'm lacking. I've never really had much self esteem, time to build it right up.
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PostSubject: Re: self esteem VS self image   Thu Jun 12, 2008 5:47 pm

if you can uncover the secret of self esteem mate, let me know, we'll make a million!

if you could bottle self esteem...

well, i think it doesnt come from good grooming, pushups or nice clothes... i think it comes from doing good things for people unexpectedly/anonymously without personal gain

do good things and you will feel good about yourself.
your sense of self is largely unconscious so you cant impact it powerfully with visualisations and affirmations, it wont be tricked that easily.
you have to do genuinely good things so your unconscious can say:

"I know that I am a good person because I did x, y and z, switch on the self esteem feelings"
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Ben



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PostSubject: Re: self esteem VS self image   Thu Jun 12, 2008 6:12 pm

Richard Grannon wrote:
if you can uncover the secret of self esteem mate, let me know, we'll make a million!

if you could bottle self esteem...

well, i think it doesnt come from good grooming, pushups or nice clothes... i think it comes from doing good things for people unexpectedly/anonymously without personal gain

do good things and you will feel good about yourself.
your sense of self is largely unconscious so you cant impact it powerfully with visualisations and affirmations, it wont be tricked that easily.
you have to do genuinely good things so your unconscious can say:

"I know that I am a good person because I did x, y and z, switch on the self esteem feelings"

Good points, but that raises the question, where do bad people get their self esteem from? I'm talking about general scum, you know the kind of people that will rob you of all you got then stab you, just for a spliff.
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Richard Grannon
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PostSubject: Re: self esteem VS self image   Thu Jun 12, 2008 6:45 pm

they do NOT have self esteem or respect or worth or value

that is why they are bad, because they were trained by the cum that spawned them that they are worthless peices of shit, so that is how they act out.

if you can give a person self respect and self worth and self love (no not the hands in the pants kind) many problems and negative behaviour patterns dissolve, no further therapy necessary

I met an interesting bloke ( a therapist) on a plane the other day who spoke of this, I will see if I can get him to post here

Some US prisons have had really good feedback from allowing prisoners to look after dogs (selected prisoners controlled environment obviously) and apparently the rehabilitation effects are astonishing

http://www.coyotecommunications.com/dogs/prisondogs.html

just put "dog rehabilitation prisoner" into google

if you start to really care for someone or something whos positive regard (cant say "love" on a manly martial arts forum) is unconditional then the effect is therapeutic... not rocket science is it?

the people you are talking about Ben have probably never been cared for properly, dont really care about anyone or anything... least of all themselves, depsite the pretense they maintain.

Ever notice how showy and ostentatious "gangsters" with material wealth? Call me an armchair psychologist but its pretty clearly to mkae up from a deep seated lack of self worth that comes from being abused or ignored as a child.

sorry for long winded answer, i took a caffeine pill before training What a Face
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Richard Grannon
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PostSubject: Re: self esteem VS self image   Thu Jun 12, 2008 6:46 pm

I meant "scum" not "cum"... you know the definition of a Freudian slip?

saying one thing but meaning your mother

Rolling Eyes
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Ben



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PostSubject: Re: self esteem VS self image   Thu Jun 12, 2008 6:59 pm

Richard Grannon wrote:
I meant "scum" not "cum"... you know the definition of a Freudian slip?

saying one thing but meaning your mother

Rolling Eyes

Went well with the sentence though lol, "from the cum that spawned you". Laughing



I get you now. It's just they all act as if everyone is beneath them, as if they matter above everyone else so I got the impression they had high self worth and value.

The prisoners looking after the dogs thing makes perfect sense, and a damn good idea I think. Our prisons should do that, instead of supplying prisonres with playstation's, cable t.v and pool tables.
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PostSubject: Re: self esteem VS self image   Thu Jun 12, 2008 8:08 pm

quick psychology lesson for you Ben mate

from wikipedia:

Superiority complex refers to a subconscious neurotic mechanism of compensation developed by the individual as a result of feelings of inferiority.

Those exhibiting the superiority complex commonly project their feelings of inferiority onto others they perceive as beneath them, possibly for the same reasons they themselves may have been ostracized, i.e. viewing most, possibly all others as "ugly" or "stupid", and beneath oneself.


Ever notice how if someone say for example feels themselves to be fraudulent (for example), thats the first thing they will accuse you (or others) of being?

insider jedi mind trick:
If you want to get an insight into what people are most insecure about listen to what they accuse others of most pathologically and vehemently.


You got any mates who are alwsys accusing people of being gay?

feelings of insecurity and doubt = inferiority which = overcompensation = superiority complex +projection = accusing everyone of being everything they hate in themselves

beware any martial arts/ RBSD instructor who spends a lot of time ripping other instructors apart... pay particular attention to what they accuse them of (all the following are actual examples of what I have heard instructors say about other instructors):

"he lies about his past/experience"

"he steals other peoples material"

"he has no stand up/ ground game whatsoever"

"he is a fraud and a (insert disqualifier here)"

"he is a (disqaulifier) trying to play tough"

"he is gay" (Im not joking, thats a real one flower )

etc, etc...
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Ben



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PostSubject: Re: self esteem VS self image   Thu Jun 12, 2008 8:22 pm

Finally I'm starting to understand. I have plenty of those mates who constantly brag about being superior to other people, and also others who seem to take a little too much pleasure in calling everyone gay all the time.

One "mate" of mine is always going on about how good he is at fighting and how hard he is. Beat him at something completely different, and his comment will be, "Well let's have a fight then, I'll kill you," or something to that effect. Does my head in to be honest.

Cheers for the lesson Richie.
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JS

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PostSubject: Re: self esteem VS self image   Fri Jun 13, 2008 12:55 am

I found a definition for self esteem in a book. It said that self esteem literaly translates as self-love. It has a definition for self-image and self concept that is completely different from self esteem and they stress that these 2 concepts are so important that people really need to understand the difference before progress will be made and people can start applying actions otherwise it's a waste of time and will not help at all. Thanks for the responses and guidance on this topic. Raising self esteem has many small actions and decisions that seem insignificant but everything I have read say that's what increases self esteem.
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RichardB



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PostSubject: Re: self esteem VS self image   Fri Jun 13, 2008 6:25 am

Very cool stuff. I'll sharpen my ears a bit when listening to people talk. Cool
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PostSubject: whats the difference?   Sat Sep 06, 2008 1:01 am

so then are self esteem and confidence the same thing? because i know some people who aren't very nice to people and don't do good things for others, yet they have confidence like i've never seen...so i understand that raising self esteem requires raising the level at which you value yourself, but, how do you gain confidence?
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Richard Grannon
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PostSubject: Re: self esteem VS self image   Thu Sep 11, 2008 1:35 pm

self esteem= by product or symptom of high self value

which comes from doing/being/acting in a way you beleive to be right/compassionate/forgiving/fair etc

"confidence"= a state and or skillset

both can be induced or developed... self esteem is something you "just have", confidence is something you "do"

Quick test of this?

Try the Anthony Robbins Exercise "The Cape Walk"... its fun and silly and an excellent demonstration of how your physiology affects your state, your feelings and your thoughts rather than how we usually think of it: physiology responds to thoughts/feelings:

i.e. I suddenly think of a kitten, I experience happiness, my face starts to smile, I tilt my head and face upward and do a big satisfied sigh

but if you do the "tilt head, smile and happy sigh" kata before feeling good you will find you can "falsely" induce these feelings very easily and quickly
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maija
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PostSubject: Re: self esteem VS self image   Fri Dec 19, 2008 3:58 pm

OK, another older thread, but it got me thinking ...
I believe a large component of developing self esteem is to stop lying to yourself.
I have found that something as 'easy' (HA!HA!) as following through on promises, for instance, is a great place to start. If you say you're going to do something (I'll go check out that class tonight, I'll be there at 7, I'll have a talk with that guy tomorrow, etc), DO IT. Simple as that.
I believe you can set up a negative loop in your brain if you are constantly promising things you don't get around to doing, that is bad for your self esteem.
You have to really KNOW yourself (like Clint Eastwood said:"A man has to know his limitations") to be able to keep your mouth shut when you CAN'T make something happen, AND you have to make yourself do the things you said you would, however irritating or inconvenient they are at the time. The positive benefit of this is being true to yourself, and sending a healthy 'esteem' loop through your brain that makes you feel good about yourself.
Does this make sense?
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PostSubject: Re: self esteem VS self image   Fri Dec 19, 2008 4:58 pm

nicely put.
because saying, "i'll be there at 7" and not showing, or knowing you wont show--is playing into a script that is shared with cowards, etc...it's another way of not taking things 'head-on'. like just saying, "i don't want to go, maybe another night...sorry"

i had things i had to change in my life as a (late)teen. getting away from hooligan friends, my boss would lie for me--because they were up to really serious things. while it was nice to put some distance between them--and i appreciated my boss knowing i was trying to make changes in my life. it felt cowardly and didn't feed my self honesty. i needed the more polite version of, "i've grown out of you mate".

i've also noticed the same drop in esteem/ability from people who are dishonest. Richie described it as 'having God on your side'. truth is a hard road. not many people can follow it. usually there's some stop on the way that is just too inviting, or easy, not to explore
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maija
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PostSubject: Re: self esteem VS self image   Fri Dec 19, 2008 5:18 pm

Yeah, and not showing up/doing what you said you would, creates all kinds of excuses and self delusions that become real .... like, "being there at 7 is not that important anyway/ This other thing I'm doing is more interesting and those people are not as cool as this/ I'm just too important and busy to just drop everything for them" .... etc etc. Ego stays intact. Everything is someone else's problem. No need to change anything.... BUT I do believe on a subconscious level you KNOW this is BS, and this dichotomy is a problem for self esteem. (Nice cross reference here to the 'delusion and confidence' thread) Arrow Smile
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