fence against an on guard opponent rushing with straights?

Me and a buddy have been practising scenarios together with strong visualization, physical pressure and contact, with an agressive determined state while trying to make it as realistic as possible and we have come across one interesting challenge. While having the fence up and one of us comes from a distance already with fists raised and starts to throw straights. We are not sure wether to use Blauer's predisposing technique or Spour's crashing through technique. We haven't seen anything by SFS other than the crashing through method. Niether one feels comfortable to us so we basically throw the lead palm out and try to land blows over the aggressor's blows while side stepping a bit. Also it's strange working with him because he's a southpaw so niether one of us is very confident with any of these three methods when we switch up as defender and aggressor. Can anyone advise us or help us out a bit, even if it's just to tell us to pick one and drill it until it becomes good, effective and natural? Thanks

I dont think there is going to be any neat answer to this because your creating a very testing and eniterly unnatural scenario!

but well done for pushing yourselves... why not make it tougher and instend of startin from a fence start with your hands held behind your back?

the thing is you've got to agree within the confines of the drill when the Defender is "becoming aware" of himself being attacked... obviously we are playing a violent game of "lets pretend" with these drills because in "real life" you know your training partner is going to attack you and what with dont you? because its pre agreed, you know he wont keep smashing you in if you accidentally fall and twist your knee or something

first off, lets be very clear and try and be as rigourous and scientific with this drill... what is the drill's objectives? are you trying to figure out the "best move to do against an opponent coming at you with straight punches"??? because if you are you've got a long task ahead of you!!

there is no best answer: the Blauer method, or Bobs elbow cover to crash through, or palming the face or crouching tiger hidden ballsack attack... none of them will give you a cast iron SOLUTION to the problem

why not?

well because one doesnt exist! but Im not saying dont do the drill, DO IT... but no the limitations of your objectives or you and your mate are going to stand around pontificating and poncing intellectually when you could be getting more benefit by doing some light sparring or grappling training and DEVELOPING SKILLS AND ATTRIBUTES instead of trying and failing to CREATE SOLUTIONS

the solution to any fighting question will always be realtive to the circumstances and the skills of the attacker and the defender, so here is a solution for you that is cast iron

your % increased survivability in a fight = (the sum of your fighting skill/relevant attributes developed over time) + your violent intent to fcuk the attakcer up

heart + skill = you got a better chance... that as good as it gets mate

by the way, the point of the fence is that it is a psychological (not physical) launch pad for a preemeptive strike... if you have a fence up and someone tip toes one tippy step over the line in the line in the sand YOU should be attacking HIM with a series of straight line punches! (or whatever)

I tell you what nothing screws up a persons ability to attack you like being 1. forced off balance or smothered 2. being made to experience pain or fear 3. having their bones broke and their ligaments torn and 4. being put to sleep

dont buy into the step by step "if you do this I will do this " robotic defensive mindset mate... you sound like me when I was 20!

stretch yourself

1. if doing the drill as a fence drill, your objective is to practise/ develop your ability to switch from off to on with as much violent intent as possible and to smother your attacker with ferocity (read Musashi section on "Holding Down a Pillow")... the "attakcer" is only really there to be the stimulus that switches on your attack... do not wait to see what he will do... do him first!

2.if doing the drill as a reaction drill, put your hands down by your sides to simulate unpreparedness ( using the fence means you were prepared dont drill it so that you then are simulating non preparedness its counter productive) and have them attack you from the front side and back with various attacks... again you must specifiy when your "awareness point" is in this game of "lets pretend I dont know you are about to attack me"

3.i would say have a go at only allowing yourself to defend by grappling, or only allow to defend by kicking (just for fun, great for fitness), only defend with left handed punches (simulate your right arm being injured)

drills are there not to develop technical solutions as to develop and TEST skills and attributes

good question, you are on the right lines, dont think so rigidly, film it and get it on youtube
let us know how u get on

Richie

Thanks alot Richie! You laid a load of great pointers out for us to think about, modify and apply. We are very serious about this so rest assured your time was not wasted in writing that response. We are going to use it and let you know how things are going. This is an awesome forum. Our motivation and excitement level is in the Red Zone now after reading your response

Quote :

read Musashi section on "Holding Down a Pillow"

I read the Book of Five Rings about 10 years back. Is this a drill of Musashi's or a mindset? We fortunately don't have the "if you do this I will do this " mentality because we both grew up fighting on the streets(he's been in 2 fights this month) but we do want to get better and faster at inflicting damage and diffusing situations alltogether. BTW we ordered some of your latest cd's today so we are looking forward to listening to them, applying the knowleadge gained and benefitting from that. We like how you balance everything out in your material like becoming a better person, building a better self image and self esteem, finding common ground, understanding people more, etcetera. That is something that is missing from other instructor's materials.

thanks mate, I think when you described the drill you were doing I could tell you were pretty committed and moving in the right direction, I just wouldnt want poeple sincerly looking for answers to lose heart because they hadnt thought things through properly (like I did years ago doing what you were describing)

penetrating the Book of Five Rings is a pretty slow process and some of the material needs to just slosh around in the contemplation department of the mind for a while... but much of it can applied to physical and psychological SP training directly... Musashi never gives full solutions, but he hints at them... he says at ceratin points in the text things like "this must be studied deeply" and then moves on to the next subject.

In true samurai fashion he doesnt try and spoon feed the reader, he expects us to work it out for ourselves... by doing things like standing in a fence and getting your training partner to come at you with a flurry of punches for example!

Some times the answers have to be struggled for, if they are just given then they can fall on deaf ears. No struggle= nothing learned.


Richie

That would be fabulous! Thanks Richie

Quote :

dont buy into the step by step "if you do this I will do this " robotic defensive mindset mate... you sound like me when I was 20!

I caught myself doing this last night. UGLY I've got to work on that, am glad you pointed it out. I need to judge myself more objectively from this point in all aspects.

Video blog : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePdz5y0_LzA

Fence vs flurry 1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzBDXoOyelY

Fence vs flurry 2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qtxLO_QLNw

Fence vs flurry 3 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mXb1sK_qMw

Richie,
video blog is a brilliant format. nothing lost in translation, and i'm a visual learner--this adds a dimension.
-Rus

We have, in the system I study, two combative techniques that deal with this type of attack. A boxer coming in with flurries - i.e. 1, 2 combo while moving forward - we call attacking offense. The goal of the attacking offense is to overwhelm your attacker with a barrage of straight punches (pistoning), while moving forward at a speed that will cause him to be on his heels as he backs up. As long as your opponent is on his heels, his only recourse is to defend.

The second combative technique is called attacking defense. In this situation you are the underdog, since the fight has been initiated by the attacker - i.e. you got clocked or deflected the blow - the worst thing that one can do is to decompose under pressure. We immediately take our fighting stance (left or right lead depending on wether you are right handed or left). Our fighting stance is a modified boxing stance with the rear heel being slightly elevated off the floor. The weight distribution is 55% on the front leg and 45% on the rear. Immediately throw a 1, 2 combo (jab/cross). If neither connected, swing the front leg back so that your stance is now reversed - right/left leg forward depending on your strong side. You immediately throw a straight punch with your strong hand.

The swing back allows you to back up without being put on your heels. Once you connect, immediately launch into the attacking offense. It can be with fists, palm strikes etc...

From fighting stance the drill goes as follows - punch with weak hand (jab), punch with strong hand (cross), swing the forward leg back to change the stance (your lead hand is now your strong hand) and throw your strong hand punch again. If you didn't connect, swing the front leg back and repeat the cycle.

The system I study deals with what I call the "Oh Shit" situations - a.k.a. being ambushed.

Hope this helps...

What is the system you study VictorS that uses such boxerish strategies in such a streetish way? sounds interesting

It is called HaganaH - it has elements of Hisardut, Krav Maga, and some other high-speed/low drag Israeli Spec Ops stuff mixed in. The main difference between the other systems and ours, is that regardless of the situation we are confronted with, we strive to always take a point of reference and either restrain, incapacitate, or terminate the attacker.

BTW - love the video blog idea.

This is an Isreali style like Krav? I bet like Krav it has many manifestations, can I get a link to your school, sounds good.

Speaking of Israeli styles I watched Adam Sandlers new film "you dont mess with the zohan" last night... its about an israeli psecial forces guy moving to america to become a hairdresser... the jewish israeli insider gags flew far over my head, but the fight scenes are very funny

Hi Richie,

The website is www.fight2survive.com and the main school's website is www.haganah-usa.com

As a warning - Ignore the foo foo marketing...It makes the system sound cheasy but it's far from it.

Don't Mess With the Zohan - That movie was hilarious. I work for an Israeli and my instructor is Israeli so I definitely got the humor.

mmm, the guy who runs the fight2survive youtube account just called me a moron and I wasnt too impressed with the formulaic stuff he posted on his videos of hagannah

https://www.youtube.com/user/scottrchick

I will check out the website though

I don't know him.

Don't go by that guys stuff - he's not affiliated with the HQ, I believe he is a student of one of our blackbelts who is deployed to Kososvo right now. His instructror would rip him a new ass if he found out...

Check out this link - https://www.youtube.com/user/FightNYCity

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0V6LWQZjYRk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pXeyiBRP4s&feature=related


Haganah does not have a youtube site. The link for FightNYCity is of Evangelos - I know him personally and he is one of the top traininers in our system. The other two are clips of our DVD's done by the Chief Instructor himself.

ah right, thanks very much mate

Back on topic...
There's a drill in Bukti Negara called Kilet that would fit the criteria of the thread title.
Actually works quite well against the "straight blast" in JKD. (Chain punching or whatever
the hell the Wing Chun guys call the same thing.)

And yes it's just a drill, a TOOL.

It is useful, though.