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 some ideas I wanted to spin your way guys

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Richard Grannon
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PostSubject: some ideas I wanted to spin your way guys   Wed Dec 02, 2009 7:56 pm

remember when we were getting really close to having a system? a lot of really sensible ideas were being spewed from you 3 at me

and then I sort of had an epiphany and 2 days before i was due to shoot it I cancelled

there was a few things leading up to it:

1 was the LCDT lowest common denominator article that Maija posted, I realised I had been looking backawards to the level of what the weakest students can do which is hardly progressive

2 I went to a shopping centre on my own, a very minor event happened, but my bottle dropped - now notthing came of it and if it had I would have just gritted through it Im sure, but I dont like being a full time instructor and having my bottle drop

now... I know what it happened, just wanted to know what your thoughts were

put into a question: are there certain disadvantages to being an instructor?

(this will come around to the "system thing" but I wanted to get some feedback from you chaps and chappette)
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PostSubject: Re: some ideas I wanted to spin your way guys   Wed Dec 02, 2009 8:21 pm

Richard Grannon wrote:
are there certain disadvantages to being an instructor?

(this will come around to the "system thing" but I wanted to get some feedback from you chaps and chappette)

my personal negative is that the pace is often dictated. i can be purist as you please but at some point the flavor of my
vision has to constantly shapeshift according to who's putting in the most time. in my case, one of the guys who i didn't
start off being all that fond of [not representing my values, etc...trouble with the law, etc...] was the alpha of my class
and more commited to my fight goals. he was sort of an impulsive bully. i found that i'd been mildly--not by much, been
accomodating certain aspects of his flawed personality to keep the fever at a high pitch and the learning curve high.
at some point i had to realize that there were two almost exclusive images that i previously thought of as one--that represented my idea of what constituted my pure vision for my teaching: hard core feverish pitch [1]; the absence of side shows and personalities to accomodate. in order to keep the pace high [which i wanted] i had to do alot of emotional baby sitting. that was the big negative. if i trod on any of the those the most serious in the group--a small one in my case, the ideals would fall apart under the values relating to work ethic of those that remained.

in short. in the mix of flavor in the room--the meal was getting it's own flavor and had to be reseasoned constantly to
stear it back to what i still found pallatible. who cares right? for some reason i felt that there was enough drama everywhere in the professional and domestic realms...i wanted this to be my church--this is not everyone's vision. it's great when you
attract devotee like people who see your goal and wish to mesh their efforts with yours. it sucks when their own visions mildly overlap for time, commitment, absorption, long term commitment...makes one fear and understand how the neighborhood karate studios came about affraid

it always worked best for me to keep it selfish, to see the sea of students that came and went--largely not taking it too far,
as one's own work out partners that symbiotically gain from your own inner promise to give them as much as you feel they'll
need in return for taking what is going to benefit you. i am now sort of used to the idea that my intensity lends to tides and seasonal like turnovers, and on some level i'm aware that it could be taken further if some remained with me--but on another i'm aware of keeping the white belt mind aspect and that includes continually stressing students be allowed to test me and try and take me down in drills and mild contest like reality drills.

i hope that wasn't ALL OVER, and made some sense. i've never gone into belts, etc...luckily my guys haven't questioned me too much about that. i circumnavigated this by 'giving them their props' upfront, to include the idea [constantly revisited] that any one of them shouldn't assume they cannot take me down. this keeps the learning curve real--or closer to real. if ever they persist with levels, i'll go the route of beginner, intermediate, and advanced or something and create a shpeel
that supports it--relating to SP and keeping one's head out of their collective arses for token respect.

the next HUGE part that i didn't have to put up with is that you'll need a place to train, you'll need several months rent before hand, and you'll need about 100 guarantee'd [or whatever] students before hand that agree to come on board. with this level of 'relationship' like scenario, you may again find the need to compromise if it relates to bills that have to be met--to include contractual shite, etc...i think you may not have too much of this problem since you're a psychiatrist/therapist [forgive me but i confuse the two] and so in the absense of needing all your bills from this, you have an edge.

my daughter just awoke...arghhh...may as well consider this all my points Laughing

off topic but check out this thingy below:



no time to put it on another thread...i'm off

Wink

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PostSubject: Re: some ideas I wanted to spin your way guys   Wed Dec 02, 2009 8:57 pm

Quote :
that represented my idea of what constituted my pure vision for my teaching: hard core feverish pitch [1]; the absence of side shows and personalities to accomodate. in order to keep the pace high [which i wanted] i had to do alot of emotional baby sitting. that was the big negative.

sounds like the forum!

hahahaaha!

sorry I wasnt clearer mate, I mean are there any disadvantages to YOU as a practitioner in being an instructor

does teaching others in some way corrode ability and confidence?
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PostSubject: Re: some ideas I wanted to spin your way guys   Wed Dec 02, 2009 11:52 pm

Richard Grannon wrote:
Quote :
that represented my idea of what constituted my pure vision for my teaching: hard core feverish pitch [1]; the absence of side shows and personalities to accomodate. in order to keep the pace high [which i wanted] i had to do alot of emotional baby sitting. that was the big negative.

sounds like the forum!

hahahaaha!

sorry I wasnt clearer mate, I mean are there any disadvantages to YOU as a practitioner in being an instructor

does teaching others in some way corrode ability and confidence?

lol!

in my humble opinion, not really...but mostly because it's my vision that is actualizing. if my confidence or ability is
waning, i've let go of something in the training part. in someone elses dojo/lab/facility/gym, i can see where certain
bases might not be covered for my needs as they may not be the teacher's needs and hence be off the radar, but
since i've been teaching--greedily, i've made it something i enjoy first, they benefit from as collateral nicey nicey
returns.

i'm better off now than when i trained with others, for others, etc...but also it all depends how one teaches. i sneak in
the idea of "LEADING FROM THE FRONT" as a blatant whoring of my faux teacher status wrapping around my own
training. in the absense of "LEADING FROM THE FRONT" ahem...i'd fall into the mythical and soft figure of the average
[i say average because i know there are some tough ones out there] untouchable and worshiped sensei type.


again, in my opinion. mostly because in my world i teach what filled all the gaps that i looked back and saw in my
years devoted to the stuff. perhaps what i've left out--hopefully not, is some of the foundations that i take as a given.
your preemptive stuff [Richie]--with concepts like sticking and forward drive, really went a long way. hearing it from
the outside in, i was able to retrace the steps of my mundane life and see the fights that went well, and those that most
certainly did not. i built an entire focus around the agressive blast. and i make sure that i sneak in what doesn't make it
to my personal workouts--the two people drills. the only bummer is that sometimes, in spite of most of the people being
bigger and taller than myself--or quite inner city macho, i find it hard to get them really into the plan B stuff. the nasty
take downs. in that sense, my plan B has suffered. you want the student to learn so you go easy--and yawn and grumble
within, but at some point you sneak in your own honest work and put some off. few really want to feel that pressure.
i have a few, but they're not always there for consistancy. that could be said for anyone i train with though.

the timing is different for all.

alot of roaming on my part, but in short...it's been a plus [i could've been more concise]. you are past the point of needing input, but to answer your direct question, i'd make sure that the stuff that concerns you over your own game factors into the foundation--and for good measure branch out and try and address everyone elses needs.


that may sound a wee bit naughty, but i'm always chinamasta at the end of the day. if i'm happy, they're happy. the only
time i sort of bend backwards is with my paying customers--hmmm. i've split the two worlds in a way that takes the money
i'm not getting [from the non paying crew] out of their collective arses. i don't feel guilty because the half dozen solid little
group that stays relatively focussed has been coming back with smiles on their faces over the young dude fights they've
been getting themselves into for living in the bad lands. glad i'm not 18-ish any more.

if that doesn't answer it. feel free to chastise me and rephrase it...i'm famous for needing it
S-P-E-L-L-E-D OUT TO ME on occasion, i'm so into my own creapy little violent comic book imaginary world where
ninjas crawl past my window and special organization seek my talents--then i wake up and find that it's time to go
to work, have a good cry, and realize i'm just a PE teacher Laughing

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PostSubject: Re: some ideas I wanted to spin your way guys   Thu Dec 03, 2009 9:44 am

Quote -' .....I mean are there any disadvantages to YOU as a practitioner in being an instructor

does teaching others in some way corrode ability and confidence?'

Hmmm, Interesting question.
This is going to be a disjointed reply, but I'll put down a couple thoughts that occur right now.

I think I enjoyed being a student more than I do being an instructor, but not because I don't like teaching ....
Because I teach, I now spend less time on my own training, just because there is not enough time for both. I think I've learned alot from teaching, but I do feel my own level is not progressing like it was when I was a student.
Do I believe I can find a creative way to generate progression as a teacher? Yes, but I'm not satisfied with it yet.

Now, this lack of progression might be just a perception thing .... becuse I don't have a regular peer group to test with, I feel I'm losing skills, but maybe I would find I've not lost what I think? .... don't know.
Problem is, the longer you go without feedback, the less you are SURE of what you have.

I have also found that when I do get workout with my peer group, we are not fellow students any more, but instructors which means that there is a defference we tend to show to eachother that seems to have come out of nowhere, and ultimately means we don't push eachother enough. Noone wants to teach the others.
Weird.

Then there's the whole status and ego thing. Somehow one's status can inhibit both self and students from behaving naturally. I try to stop this when I see it, in both me and my students, but it sneaks up sometimes for sure. Suddenly you're like 'hang on a minute, no, actually aim for my head please, not off to the side - really, try and hit me'.

I know there's also a big part of me that does not want to be one of those delusional nutballs in a gold trimmed outfit and a long title walking around like I have a bad smell under my nose ...... but sometimes I can certainly see the temptation ..... It's all about MEEEE, It's all about MEEEE farao Wink clown

OTOH ..... I have no choice but to find a way for this to work - i.e. generate progression through my students, becuse they are basically the only ones who are there for me to play with, and as we all know, playing with yourself too much makes you go blind Laughing Laughing Laughing

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PostSubject: Re: some ideas I wanted to spin your way guys   Thu Dec 03, 2009 10:26 am

maija wrote:
OTOH ..... I have no choice but to find a way for this to work - i.e. generate progression through my students, becuse they are basically the only ones who are there for me to play with, and as we all know, playing with yourself too much makes you go blind Laughing Laughing Laughing

I store these occassional cheeky gags of yours in a special scrap book you know Razz


thanks guys, still digesting still processing

but in essence, its gone from me thinking "fuck look at people thinking and thinking and thinking about the subject and getting less and less confident" (Jam Idiocy)

http://streetfightsecrets.darkbb.com/psychology-f1/strange-post-t102.htm

Quote :
Jam Idiocy

In chapter 5 Gladwell describes an experiment performed by Psychologist Jonathan Schooler, who came up with the term Verbal Overshadowing
(... if I ask you to remember someones face, you can do it effectively, but if I ask you to describe that face in words your visual memory actually becomes impaired by that process! thats verbal overshadowing)
In the experiment a group of food experts were asked to rank the quality of 24 different jams. Schooler took a group of college students and asked them to rank the jams too. How close was the students ranking to the experts?
"Pretty close" says Gladwell "What this says, in other words, is that our jam reactions are quite good: even those of us who arent jam experts know good jam when we taste it."

BUT
What happened in the experiment when students were given a questionnaire and asked to explain their choices of jam? Total disaster... there was little correlation at all with the experts choice of jam.

"This is reminiscent of Schoolers experiments I described in the Van Riper story (about verbal overshadowing) in which introspection destroyed peoples ability to solve insight problems. By making people think about jam...Schooler turned them into jam idiots."


to me seeing that in myself

teaching and thinking about teaching ALL the time is constantly taking me "out of the moment" and corroding my personal self confidence

which is crazy if you think about it, I expect more from myself

in the same way, the last couple of fights I got into, I did ok, but I expect more from myself really, I mean... this is my full time job!

I think Im suffering from the effects of working to the LCD line.

I want to be selfish again, I wonder where I would be up to now if I had just been selfish for the last couple of years

make sense?
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PostSubject: Re: some ideas I wanted to spin your way guys   Thu Dec 03, 2009 10:34 am

to be more specific

its got to the point where Ive trained my mind to think

not what can I do?

but to only allow for

what can I train other people to do? and then the very least of the people I can train?


so its like Im almost mentally deconstructing my own skillset

as an instructor you cant just teach fancy stuff you can because you have the attributes and ability, you have to keep going back to "well what can a lazy muppet who doesnt want to spend the years and take the risks you have do" lol!

now I dont resent that, I accept it as Im paid to... where I draw a line is when I am actually having to mentally press the control alt delete buttons because MY confidence goes!

its almost schizophrenic to have to double question everything with "ah yeah, but can it be taught easily and can it be worked by someone with limited skills"

the freedom to just say "fuck you, I CAN do it, if you cant its because you SUUUUUCK!" looks really appealing right now

tell me if this just sounds like half baked drivel Razz
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PostSubject: Re: some ideas I wanted to spin your way guys   Thu Dec 03, 2009 11:40 am

So, Richie,
How would you improve your own skill level at this point? Is there anything about teaching that improves you?
Do you think there is always room for improvement, or do you think the urge to seek improvement can be troublesome because it can cause too much thinking and subsequent creation of exraneaous bullshit ....?

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PostSubject: Re: some ideas I wanted to spin your way guys   Thu Dec 03, 2009 6:06 pm

Quote :
How would you improve your own skill level at this point?

repeatedly asking the question over a period of time: how can I improve my own skills? instead of how can I improve other peoples skills? at this point it seems like the two pursuits are mutually exclusive as the gap between me (and most people with over 10 years martial arts training) and the LCD line is too large.

(and thats the first time I crystallised that thought so thanks for asking that quesion Very Happy




Quote :
Is there anything about teaching that improves you?

it improves my ability to teach, to think, to design solutions - but not by ability to deliver teh str33tfighting ninja vilences



Quote :
Do you think there is always room for improvement, or do you think the urge to seek improvement can be troublesome because it can cause too much thinking and subsequent creation of exraneaous bullshit ....?

always room for improvement... seeking for the "Next" thing can create extraneous boolsheeeet, but seeking only to improve, not entertain, not ego wank (there it is again!), not "acquire" but to just IMPROVE objectively

...

and by that I have a sort of a vision

some kind of training environment (we havent even come close to developing what is possible, because it just isnt the focus in this field right now) that mirrors the context so we have CONTEXT driven training

not just paying lip service to it, but actually really doing it

we get passed discussing tecnhiques or strategies, we define specific TASKS and find the most ergonomic effective way of doing them and drill them to death

same way a swat team or SF team would to perform... I dunno , skillset whatever

its testable, definable and totally DICTACTED by context, purely and wholly

you dig?

join my cult

we will run around in hills of colorado in Richies vision of a combative holodeck with clubs and pubs and kebab shops made out of plasterboard and zombie bad guys running around in protective gear Very Happy
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