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Richard Grannon
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PostSubject: what do you bench?   Thu Nov 19, 2009 7:32 pm

Ive never been that big on benching, its boring

just wondering do people bother with it?

In the last few months Ive been forcing myself to do a lot of pressups and its obvioulsy paid off a bit, tried a 110kg bench on a smith machine yesterday and got 4 sets of 5 reps and was made up with myself, apparently thats ok for my weight




but then


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BlDWdfTAx8o

Razz

Ive got a good (enough) cheap gym round the corner for me right now, so I might see if I can push myself on it over the next month (its a smith machine, i got no training partners right now) - me mate just told me he can do upwards of 135kg for single rep max affraid


Russ, MarkH - I know you are into your weights, you into this benching thing?


how combatively relevant is it? I mean I suppose you want to be able to move more weight in a shorter period of time with explosivity, so does lifting quite heavy weight for fewer reps make more sense for what our objectives are?


just putting it out there...

I lift weights because I like it, so I'd keep doing it whether it was combatively relevant or not, just wondering if people trained with specific goals in mind
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PostSubject: Re: what do you bench?   Thu Nov 19, 2009 7:52 pm

hiya mate,

i haven't weight lifted--as such, in about literally ten years.
when i coupled it with things martial, the best results came
from low reps, high weight, explosive--which meant partial
cheats and more weight than i probably would use if i was
doing it strictly powerlifting [for slow form, pause, and back up].

what i didn't really like was that then i was punching with
my fist and on the odd occasion my power mattered alot if
i had sloppy punch form [eg///my wrist got damaged once when
i didn't make a tight fist during a heated haymaker].

that all said. in those days [sorry for the lack of conversion
skills], i did the warm up set of free weights at 225 pounds,
i got a 5 rep out of 275 pounds, and i'd get a one rep [that was
probably un'necessary and why i had periodic rotator cuff injuries--from
tiny stabilizer muscles in those weak link areas in my shoulder]at 315.

so really, the 275 pound bench for 5 reps served me for a good while
until injuries set me back.

that an some dumbell bench [100 pound each hand] for about 8 to
12 reps; then seated military where i get the desired rep range [8 to 12]
185, and occasionally a 1 rep [un'necessary] at 225.

now, i'm happy to just hit the pads with extreme emotion, i don't touch
the weights and don't feel it's needed for the way i get the resistance.
and what's better [for me] is that the resistance is closer to translatible
for all the areas of my body--from my waist to my shoulders, etc...
i haven't had the injuries, appear to still lift [though not quite as large],
and have alot of practical strength left--even for grappling.

my two P.

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Last edited by Russ the Muss on Thu Nov 19, 2009 10:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: what do you bench?   Thu Nov 19, 2009 7:57 pm

ta Russ!
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PostSubject: Re: what do you bench?   Thu Nov 19, 2009 8:03 pm

Quote :
What do you bench?

The most macho question a man could ever ask another man Very Happy

I've been off sick for a while and haven't done hypertrophy type weight lifting for few a weeks, but my comfortable 8 reps is about 65kg I think (bear in mind, I weigh a bit LESS than that). One rep max I haven't tried with bench before.

To be honest Richie, for me, smith machine doesn't count. Sorry. But any machine that guides your range of motion and compensates for imbalances in form, just doesn't compare to free weights. But still, 110kg is a lot! Hat's off for sure.

Combat relevance? Not a hell of a lot I guess. Delta press ups are more punching-like I think.

But then again...

For general strength training; ESSENTIAL in my (and many other's) humble opinion. It's the one big 'pushing' type of resistance movement.

I know you didn't ask this, but I think the essential top weight lifting moves for strength/size training are:

Deep Squat
Deadlift
Bench
Pull ups
Bent over row (underhand grip)
Overhead press (clean and press for advanced training)
(and I add cautiously to the list, shrugs)

One things for sure, it should all be done explosively. That is to say the contraction phase done as explosively as possible and the lowering phase done nice and slow. Although, that slowly lowering thing isn't as essential as the explosive lifting phase... it's quite overated according to me personal trainer friend.

It's hard to believe but i've been into the weights for a long time. I'm in there at least 3 times a week. You think I'm slim (dare I say skinny) in my videos? You should see me when I don't train! It's a good thing I enjoy it, because when I don't lift, my body goes into it's state of natural super-skinniness. It's almost like an illness lol
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PostSubject: Re: what do you bench?   Thu Nov 19, 2009 8:53 pm

a curable condition mate:

kebabs, pies, peanut m+m's, choclate mikshakes and jaffa cakes Razz

I will try it sans smith machine when I next get a good trainin partner and see what I get
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PostSubject: Re: what do you bench?   Thu Nov 19, 2009 8:59 pm

Richard Grannon wrote:


kebabs, pies, peanut m+m's, choclate mikshakes and jaffa cakes Razz


Dam... sounds good... too bad I can't eat any of it right now... Crying or Very sad

I am currently cooking whole wheat pasta with diced tomatoes, corn, peas and lima beans with a white sauce made from cannelloni beans. Doesn't that sound good...




Somebody, just kill me now..... Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad



.
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PostSubject: Re: what do you bench?   Thu Nov 19, 2009 9:02 pm

Strength and health and a long life Roadkill Very Happy


Strennnnnngth ! cheers


Shar, Ive just spoken to my weights sifu, he says smith bench doesnt count at all... dammit.

According to him only useful in bench for explosivity work
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PostSubject: Re: what do you bench?   Fri Nov 20, 2009 12:41 am

Ever seen these guys?
Totally sick
http://www.bar-barians.com/Multimedia.html

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PostSubject: Re: what do you bench?   Fri Nov 20, 2009 1:17 am

Unexplainably hungry after reading this.

Let us know how you get on Ritchie.

Been wondering about trying to improve strength for quite awhile. Should dust of the free weights & work, Lower back & coccyx very bad at the moment but could work upper chest & squats maybe. its only an old 50kg argos set.

Any suggestions about exercises? Was going to pm you back & ask Russ, but since its come up as a topic........
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PostSubject: Re: what do you bench?   Fri Nov 20, 2009 1:33 am

Rich,

I'm not much into bench pressing anymore, but I used to be pretty strong in benching when I was younger. When I went to the police academy at age 27 I had the record for my class. I weighed 178 lbs. (80.7 kg) I benched 365 lbs (165.56 kg) for five reps. I occassionally throw it in for nastalgia and can still manage about five reps in the 265 lbs (120.2 kg) range.

I now concentrate more on push up variations like clapping push ups and the like for explosivity (lends better to striking whereas the benching only seemed useful in grappling particularly when on your back). As to lifts I think Russ covered it pretty well. I also mix in other bodyweight stuff, kettlebells, pullups, rope work, etc.

maija,
Good stuff and pretty damn athletic. I am a huge fan of this guy's work:

http://www.rossboxing.com/

Keep safe and train hard/smart, Mark H
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PostSubject: Re: what do you bench?   Fri Nov 20, 2009 1:37 am

Blakops wrote:
Lower back & coccyx very bad at the moment
Any suggestions about exercises? ........

i once had a sports doctor tell me to NEVER weight train again for all the abuse i've inflicted
upon myself in sports fighting, and weight lifting. [related to my diminishing flexibility in one
leg, which related to my lower back, etc...] i didn't take it too seriously until the year i stopped
stretching as much for time. i ended with really severe sciatica--which is kept to a low burn now
for all the time i comitted to reversing what was acute and as pervasive as it was invasive.

my advice to you mate, if you're asking me to attack it from my vantage point/my lens...
stretch like crazy, and get the whole body mechanics of strikes going on the pads. save your
fight game now, before you get some flare up of something. get your moving-water thing going.
i sincerely think that our bodies behave like our worry wart doctors say they do---when we stop
working our bodies. i almost don't use my legs at all, but i've nursed my strikes back to where
they sound obscene for the impact. i was hitting the pads outside one morning, and my mate said
he heard it like the sound of a construction site from really far away as he got off his bus and
walked the rest of the way to work. i had no choice but to salvage my boxing skills, and forsake
my kicking game [keeping only several low kicks that come out more from sensibilities than
training--under pressure].

to translate my gibberish: i'm saying to hit the pads like iron mike...and let your natural strength
develop over time--to include varying the way you strike...it has sorted out my back to focus on
the type of strike and what it does for my muscle groups, physiology, body mechanics, etc...
example being:

cross jabs on mon/thu--like i'm trying to kill something in a hurry, like i'm daring my arms to fall off
from the effort

jap slaps tue/fri--same philos [the jack hammer]

hammer fist coming from a 'backfist direction' for my opposite twist [to the j-slap], working my back
and shoulder in a different way [wednesdays, etc...]

i've turned my resistance routine into pad work, and as a benefit i've gotten some muscular growth out
of it, and alot of speed and power that i wasn't exploring before for my once split lifestyle between weights
and fighting. i haven't lifted a weight [gym weight] for about 10 years, but have found the practical stuff
[to include drive back and head control drills] actually lent to my all round body strength. i condescended
to grappling the other day with lads half my age. i surprized myself and i think i owe it to the cautious way
i was trying to salvage my fight game. i could sense, though, that i shouldn't 'grapple' all the time--for
the pressure i was putting on my lower back making those guys eat dirt and sniff my arm pitts.

this may not help you at all, but it's my honest answer--for what it's worth

Embarassed sorry if it's shite lol!

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PostSubject: Re: what do you bench?   Fri Nov 20, 2009 2:27 am

maija wrote:
Ever seen these guys?
Totally sick
http://www.bar-barians.com/Multimedia.html

Dam they kick ass... I will be going back to that site... That's how you build real strength IMHO. It's the eye of the tiger workout mentality, not shiny and hi tech... just grunge. Explosive strength training when someone holds you back while your trying to push through... and then they release.
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PostSubject: Re: what do you bench?   Fri Nov 20, 2009 2:34 am

Cheers Russ. I am going to sort out something to hit. old kit bag or something. Had a plan following our pms for making something. Ritchies post made me think about addressing the strengtth & grip we were discussing.

Bar barians. Seen a few of their vids before very impressive. As is Ross.

Thanks for the links.
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PostSubject: Re: what do you bench?   Fri Nov 20, 2009 11:47 am

ghetto gymnatics - "muscle brick ups"??? no, no, no, no No they look 'orrid!


MarkH, thats some impressive numbers there mate, sorry to hear about the lower back stuff like


Quote :
Unexplainably hungry after reading this.

Let us know how you get on Ritchie.

I was hungry writing it, and my hungry intent was absorbed thru your eye holes by the magic of the internets Mad

weight training Sifu has me doing ridiculous squats at beginning of workout on empty stomach before doing regular upperbody split

hunger? ridiculous hunger, I will eat a dumbell


re. the other thread, another two very nice friendly Yanks in the gym, and one "reserved" (miserable and unfreindly) Brit... I think we have social anxiety disorder built into our culturual programming, needs rewiring


apparently its common knowledge that smith bench press is cheating, and in this way and many others I expose the depth of my ignorance about the gym Razz I like the training, I just dont like reading the literature on it, its boring and the culture that goes with it is all a bit egotisitical and vaguely homo erotic, which is fine... if you are erotic for homos

but then I really like the figure models, who have bodies that are muscly for girls - perhaps the illuminati have succesfully mind programmed me as part of their "gay agenda"... no wait please listen to me... wait... Sleep



In Thailand, the culture is that only gay men do bodybuilding, "real" men do Muay Thai - they do this little mime routine that I think means "you might be big but you will still get knocked the fugg out"





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PostSubject: Re: what do you bench?   Sat Nov 21, 2009 4:02 am

Machines may be cheating, but if you've got no spotter they're the safer way to go. Someone I know was in the weight room by himself, tried to bench a little more than he could handle and got stuck under the bar. Luckily, he hadn't bothered putting collars on, and he was able to tilt to one side, then the other and get the weights to slide off.
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PostSubject: Re: what do you bench?   Sat Nov 21, 2009 5:45 am

Karunamama wrote:
Machines may be cheating, but if you've got no spotter they're the safer way to go. Someone I know was in the weight room by himself, tried to bench a little more than he could handle and got stuck under the bar. Luckily, he hadn't bothered putting collars on, and he was able to tilt to one side, then the other and get the weights to slide off.

aaah the shame!

Ive been training on my own for years (sniff Crying or Very sad ) but I have found a good spotter, someone you can really trust to make a huge difference psychologically

just before I left the UK I asked the guy who owns the little spit and sawdust gym I was using to spot me on my LAST set of dumbell bench - I smashed my PR , 12 reps of 45 kg, on my THIRD set!!

Its pretty clear we get into these "safety zones" and I had thought 3 sets of 5 was all I could do - but the fear (that I might fail and drop the weight on my head causin injury AND/or the shame of dropping a weight mid rep) that it would go wrong held me back

he really only assisted on the last 3 reps, just knowing he was there (and that he knows what he is doing) made a huge difference

I need a good spotter I tihnk Cool
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PostSubject: Re: what do you bench?   Sat Nov 21, 2009 1:27 pm

Karunamama wrote:
Machines may be cheating, but if you've got no spotter they're the safer way to go. Someone I know was in the weight room by himself, tried to bench a little more than he could handle and got stuck under the bar. Luckily, he hadn't bothered putting collars on, and he was able to tilt to one side, then the other and get the weights to slide off.

My god, this happens so often. ALMOST happened to me too. It's actually not as dangerous as it sounds in most cases IMHO. Once it's resting on your chest (hopefully not your neck) it doesn't take much to tilt the thing over, even with the clips on. Heard a story once of this happening to a guy who used the kind of bar that has collars that screw on. He had to screw one side off while the bar sat on his neck lol!

Richie, 12 reps of 45kg. Ooh, you beast, you! albino

Profile pic had me rolling too Smile
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PostSubject: Re: what do you bench?   Sat Nov 21, 2009 4:09 pm

you're reminding me of my first love with this topic--no no, not a girl...bench pressing. i did it from about
14 onwards. but i should say a wee bit more. i'm OCD to the core, anyone seeing how i trained when i was
15 through 24 would have called me psycho, some actually have. my first wife told her pal 'donald' that
she had just started going out with me and his complete and succint response was, "that psycho weightlifter
guy, are you kidding?"

when i was little my mum was tired of my energy and suggested i run 'round the pool [in morroco]. i ran and ran
and ran--and several hours later my mother was sickened to realize that i'd been doing it the entire time.
lol!

when i really got into bench press, i was about 15yr old. all the weights i had totalled 205 lbs. my obsession was
not under doing what goal i had set for myself. my goal for sets was 20--i often could admit to myself that on
average, my sets would excede 60 [three times a week--two hours a pop, just bench press alone]. in short, my
physical genetic capacity was probably average--sort of track and field body at best...but i'd push the envelop
until injury many times. i once had a mildly dislocated shoulder for my effort, and taped/strapped my arm to my
body for about 3 to 4 weeks--hidden from all. my sole obsession was being compramised. one day i decided to load
up my bench with all i had [205] thinking it would either set things straight or kill me, and i was okay with either
...i took the weight down to my chest, heard a tremendous pop, and was able to finish the set with my shoulder
back in it's rightful place. this was the level of intensity to which i approached training. good thing i never really
approached dating that way affraid

i had a ridge across my chest like a giant foot callous [sp?]...from where i'd continually get stuck--making sure all
my sets were to failure, and await the return of enough energy to get the bar back up. needless to say, if anyone's
trying to figure out my occasional peeks in intensity, it comes from these qualities--that and a very real anger
management tendency [i believe] not so much from something like bi-polar, but from spending years as a kid that
passively took a few hiding before lashing out. sort of quick root from passive to volatile. bullied to lashing out.

anyway. bench-pressing was my first real journey out of my head. my first love. scary. after all the injuries in bench,
i obsessed with push-ups until the small of my back couldn't take it any more. i was up to 500 in one go. 1000 sit ups
in one go. 13 mile runs. etc. etc. etc. then calamity would strike and i'd turn into a sloth, and drink myself into
oblivion. so my friends, i appreciate that you all can stomach my personality, it's taken years of diluting to get it to
a socially palatible level. TMI right? lol!

BTW RICHIE: JUST SAW YOUR PICTURE/AVATAR...AMAIZING HOW MUCH YOU'VE TANNED SINCE YOU'VE BEEN
IN THE TROPICS, GORGIOUS MATE, AND THAT BEARD IS WORKIN'. AND THE EAR'RINGS. HOW LONG DO YOU
HAVE TO BE IN THE UK BEFORE ALL YOUR HAIR SORT OF GROWS BACK...AND THE BEARD FALLS OFF...AND...
AND...UHM. OH, IT WAS JUST A PICTURE, MY MISTAKE Embarassed


well this is embarassing, where are my meds scratch drunken Sleep

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PostSubject: Re: what do you bench?   Sun Nov 22, 2009 9:17 am

Quote :
Richie, 12 reps of 45kg. Ooh, you beast, you! albino

I know, Im amazing. Afterwards I kissed my reflection in the gym mirror. With tongues. I liked it.


affraid


Russ

Quote :
BTW RICHIE: JUST SAW YOUR PICTURE/AVATAR...AMAIZING HOW MUCH YOU'VE TANNED SINCE YOU'VE BEEN
IN THE TROPICS, GORGIOUS MATE, AND THAT BEARD IS WORKIN'. AND THE EAR'RINGS.

its the Tropical climate mate, gives me a lovely beard, a ferocious attitude, an impatience for "fools" ... and a fear of flying


So I went the local gym shop to get some protein goo drink and to look at the nice lady who works there and I casually picked up one of these magazines Ive treated with such derision over the years

they are actually very useful - quelle surprise! Razz a magazine devoted to lifting weights might teach you about... lifting weights

Flex magazine I think it was, very handy stuff
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PostSubject: Re: what do you bench?   Wed Dec 30, 2009 5:57 am

got to an old school gym yesterday, unassisted got , 3 (cautious set), 5 , 8, 5 with 100kg

and now Im posting that here... how full and interesting my life is at the moment Razz
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PostSubject: Re: what do you bench?   Wed Dec 30, 2009 3:14 pm

You should enjoy the slow pace of life while you can - I was going to post that famous Chinese curse "May you live in interesting times", but found out it's authenticity is doubtful .....
Apparently this is closer: Ning wi tipng quǎn, b zu lunsh rn
"It's better to be a dog in a peaceful time than be a man in a chaotic period" Laughing

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PostSubject: Re: what do you bench?   Wed Dec 30, 2009 3:36 pm

Im used to turbulence... the quiet disturbs me Suspect

nah, I decided today to capitalise on it while I can and the psych readjustment has me feeling settled again...

for now Wink
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