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Richard Grannon
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PostSubject: Supra State Concept in Fiction   Sat Oct 31, 2009 12:17 pm

Manchurian Candidate

Long Kiss Goodnight

Bourne Trilogy
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Blakops

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PostSubject: Re: Supra State Concept in Fiction   Sat Oct 31, 2009 2:20 pm

The Secret Life Of Walter Mitty? bit weak, sorry, must do better Very Happy

Identity (2003) with John Cusack. A little bit more pertinent, sorry I'm having a off day.
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PostSubject: Re: Supra State Concept in Fiction   Sat Oct 31, 2009 8:30 pm

Just been going through the Supra States course - very useful ideas and concepts in there Richie.

As for fiction, check out the John Rain series by Barry Eisler. As well as having the best fight scenes in fiction including one in the Gracie Barra in Rio (the author is a martial artist) the main character is a half-Japanese, half-American assassin who when he has to do something really dark goes into a "supra state" he calls the Ice Man.

They're bloody good thrillers anyway, especially if you like the Bourne and newer Bond movies.
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PostSubject: Re: Supra State Concept in Fiction   Sun Nov 01, 2009 12:18 am

Blakops wrote:
The Secret Life Of Walter Mitty? bit weak, sorry, must do better Very Happy

Identity (2003) with John Cusack. A little bit more pertinent, sorry I'm having a off day.

Walter Mitty? He was outed as a Walt wasnt he? fookin Waltin bastid Very Happy

nice one Traceur, that sounds goood

here is a relevant facebook pm I got

Quote :
Your examples of movies are some of my favorite and for the same reason. I know what triggers me into a totally different state (crying uncontrollably haha). Check out LtCol David Grossman's book "On Killing." It is parallel. I've had lots of correspondence with him in the past and he's a real gentleman. For an unknown movie on the subject - old one, "Time Bomb." I read an interview with the director. Israeli, ex-commando. He wrote it as a way of working through the conditioning he received. D.Grossman's book described something I had been interested in and concerned with for a long time and was the first time I saw a book about that topic (like Bourne Identity, I'm sure there are and I'm sure they're unreachable). How things like movies and video games desensitize the player to violence and he said the 1st person shooter games are completely the same in theme to what is developed for the military. Recently, I've heard (re current conflicts) LtCol types remark how this is the first generation who seems to have little difficulty killing. What you saw in my heavy bag or shooting videos, I flip into that state and am dead serious. Snipers call it going into your bubble (that's more precision and fine control than unarmed). For me, if someone I care about or have responsibility for is endangered, I flip - it's like disassociation. If you read good military and oral history, you see one thing over and over. Men don't kill for the flag or politics, it's to save their teamies/squaddies. I'm digressing here a little but it's the human aspect of conflict and the fact that I'm such a scardie-cat which has caused me to study this for decades! I have friends with connections which are unbelievable who believe the Manchurian Candidate w/o hesitation. "Is this Richard?" "Yes" "Is this Richard Grannon?" mouth opens slightly and eyes glaze... Wink

I'll keep that one anonymous for obvious reasons
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Blakops

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PostSubject: Re: Supra State Concept in Fiction   Sun Nov 01, 2009 2:44 am

Cool

Games for training. May I present one I have myself for the old Xbox.

America's Army: Rise of The Soldier.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America%27s_Army:_Rise_of_a_Soldier

Training & recruitment tool for the US Army. Though the wiki doesnt state it, apparently it is available for free as playable PC game from a US ARMY website. It was considerably more realistic than a lot of army based shooters when it came out. Training you to shoot centre body mass & in the early stages sending you back to Boot camp if you dont adhere to the NPC's requests.

And you didnt mention Zoolander in the original list Laughing (but you did on the vid)
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Traceur



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PostSubject: Re: Supra State Concept in Fiction   Sun Nov 01, 2009 9:11 pm

Another one I just thought of - Viggo Mortensen's character in A History of Violence.

This is a great movie and worth watching so here is a SPOILER WARNING
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Viggo Mortensen plays Tom Stall a family man who runs a small town diner. One night two bad guys come in with some seriously antisocial intentions. Stall kills them both using a hot coffee pot and then one of their own guns.

It turns out in a former life Stall was Joey a mob killer. There are only two or three violent scenes in the movie but when he gets going he doesn't waste any time - palm smashes to the face, web hands to the throat, windpipe stomps etc.

There is one great scene where he turns to his son and you don't know whether he is Tom or Joey. You could say Joey is who he really is and Tom (the nice guy) is his supra state.
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PostSubject: Re: Supra State Concept in Fiction   Sun Nov 01, 2009 9:51 pm

Good call, History of violence is one of the few movies that I have kept the dvd of after ripping it.

Also slightly more in keeping & to make up for my poor efforts earlier, Telefon (1977) with Charles Bronson & Donald Pleasence. USSR sleeper agents in the US activated by a rogue KGB agent, the Russians cant inform the US Govt so send in Bronson, undercover to stop the sleepers. They are activated by the last stanza from Robert Fro's poem Stopping By Woods on a Snowy Evening


The woods are lovely, dark and deep.
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep.
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PostSubject: Re: Supra State Concept in Fiction   Sun Nov 01, 2009 10:21 pm

Hmmm.. To go out on a limb here, what about Chopper?

Seems to me that when he's violent he's not exactly himself (in the film interpretation).

Oh crap, I misinterpreted the entire bloody thread. OK my new entry is..

Total Recall.. after an entirity of thought. It might pass as one.. Laughing


.. There must be a James Bond film where it's occurred ..
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PostSubject: Re: Supra State Concept in Fiction   Tue Nov 03, 2009 4:04 am

What about Clubbed? Based of Geoff Thompsons book.

It shows a transformation of a timid guy who doesn't stick up for himself to someone who decides one day to get it handled.

Shows good changes in mindset.

Coming from a nightclub security angle, thats why I like it alot.

-Ben
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PostSubject: Re: Supra State Concept in Fiction   Tue Nov 03, 2009 9:32 am

Good example of change of state. Hated the film though. Please dont kill me, Geoff!!

Bouncer with Ray winstone & Paddy Considine was much better, even though it was a short. won an Oscar for that one. Can be found on Youtube.
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PostSubject: Re: Supra State Concept in Fiction   Wed Nov 04, 2009 10:15 pm



Thought this was a pretty good example. Met the guy who made it once. In an MMA class of all places Smile
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Sharif H



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PostSubject: Re: Supra State Concept in Fiction   Wed Nov 04, 2009 10:18 pm

Beyonce has obviously been having personal therapy sessions with Richie...

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PostSubject: Re: Supra State Concept in Fiction   Thu Nov 05, 2009 11:42 pm

Unfortunately the only reason we are allowed to view "entertainment" fiction that features any mind control concepts at all is "The Revelation of the Method", predictive programming and preemptive coverup (public knowledge comes first from the fictional film than exposure to fact), all designed to maximise the Matrix's control and weaken our Resistance.

I just don't think the vast majority of assertions made by Fritz Springmeier are actually true, I KNOW the vast majority of his claims are true. I have studied the evil shitpit that is MK for 15 years and believe me, I wish the sensational tell-alls of supposedly "freed" "ex"Mind Kontrolled slaves were mostly fantasy, yet most tales are almost all true!
If one has a basic understanding of one's own psychology and can use logic then Fritz's propositions of trauma-based MK will eventually, no matter how horrific and "far-out", be seen as completely reasonable and beyond plausible, indeed very probable and expected. Once you know the common techniques to bear in mind while checking the mass media news you will be delighted to discover that the Programmers are laughing at you on a daily basis and the evidence of their Evil Machinations is blatant...

DON'T BELIEVE ME! Look for yourself. KNOW YOURSELF.
Very Happy
People who dismiss "The Manchurian Canditate" as a possibility are grossly arrogant and/or ignorant or well paid to lie.
Honest psychologists know that "Multiple Personality Disorder" (MPD, now DID, Dissociative Identity Disorder) has been well documented and insufficiently studied. The reason MPD gets so little attention from the shrinks and brain surgeons etc should be obvious but there will be some who don't click on to why straight away, so let me help:

IN FACT, THERE IS A GLOBAL MASONIC ELITE CONSPIRACY TO ENSLAVE EVERYONE. FACT. IN YOUR FACE. It's just Business.

Please, for the Love of anything whatsoever that might motivate you, AT LEAST DON'T COOPERATE WITH IT.
Oops! That would mean refusal of citizenship, taxes, losing most of your friends! Razz
I guess being gaoled or killed isn't high on your goal list... Laughing
I just thought a reality-based self-defence forum might be the place to find brains, bravery and balls... silly me!
You guys don't need my sermons... you are all switching on and secretly beavering away in infowar and intense chi kung to self-realise and save the world. Right? Wink Laughing
Razz Oh, I slay myself.

States of mind are contextually stored and thus accessible. So the more trigger cues the better... linkage.
Everything is harmonic resonance, don't you know?

Soldiers etc. usually report that they simply "reverted to training".

What we don't want to is to actually be overwhelmingly possessed by an evil psyche that makes mistakes.
This "evil" should be our tool, not become "us". We would rather be open and sensitive and balanced etc, even while shit is flying at us, lest we miss a vital point and fail in some way, physical, moral, spiritual...

I think there are a variety of personality types that spell "leave alone" to a wide spectrum of baddies.
For example, I loud and obviously crazy lurching foaming at the mouth kinda role would repel 99% of shit if played right. No-one wants to get involved with a crazy.
I have not given it much thought so not got any answers for you, chaps, sorry. Embarassed
I simply feel that projecting a menacing persona has subtle shades of variance and some masks would only worsen a situation while some would be optimal for differing environments.

Just do me a favour will ya? jocolor

KILL YOUR TV.
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maija
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PostSubject: Re: Supra State Concept in Fiction   Fri Nov 06, 2009 12:12 am

HAHAHA! That was a great rant, OH - you made a few great points in there.
Don't have much time to address them all now, but I agree with the idea that the 'leave well alone' signals come in a spectrum. A female friend of mine who lived in NYC in the 70s and 80s, when it was somewhat darker than it is now, had a couple of ploys to use if she felt a weird vibe, especially riding the subway at night. She said she would either start brushing imaginary hairs off her shoulder erratically and hiss and talk over her shoulder to some unseen person, or if it was some guy trying to pick her up, she would start to pick her nose very obviously and inspect the boogers and eat them. She said it worked like a charm to put guys off! affraid Laughing
Oh yeah, and kill your TV, fo' sure!

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PostSubject: Re: Supra State Concept in Fiction   Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:58 am

maija wrote:
HAHAHA! That was a great rant, OH - you made a few great points in there.
Don't have much time to address them all now, but I agree with the idea that the 'leave well alone' signals come in a spectrum. A female friend of mine who lived in NYC in the 70s and 80s, when it was somewhat darker than it is now, had a couple of ploys to use if she felt a weird vibe, especially riding the subway at night. She said she would either start brushing imaginary hairs off her shoulder erratically and hiss and talk over her shoulder to some unseen person, or if it was some guy trying to pick her up, she would start to pick her nose very obviously and inspect the boogers and eat them. She said it worked like a charm to put guys off! affraid Laughing
Oh yeah, and kill your TV, fo' sure!

Cheers!

I tried to send a righteous reply but it died in transit. You know, one day, when I have written quite a bit of some mad divine ranting sermon, I'll remember to cut n paste n save my rant in case the old Net lets me down. Shit! I had me some poetical truth to deliver and now I got squat! Oh well..

Glad your friend had acting gross and crazy down pat in her safety skillset. Cool.

TIP OF THE DAY:

YIN YING WATER.

ADD BOILING WATER TO CHILLED to 4*Celsius WATER, 50/50 MIX.

SIP

Brought to you curtesy of Chunyi Lin, Master of Spring Forest Chi Kung, the Simplest and most Powerful

He's a Jedi Healer. Christian too! Mad world...

WELL YOU MISSED OUT ON MY DAILY GOODNIGHT EXTRA WARNING OF THE EVIL MATRIX AS NOW I'M gonna find the capslock key and go Sleep

G'night sunny
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PostSubject: Re: Supra State Concept in Fiction   Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:30 am

No time

Please post more 'O.H.'
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PostSubject: Re: Supra State Concept in Fiction   Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:18 pm

I liked the door video, it makes a good point. It changes you.

Oh well everyone has different taste, I quite liked Clubbed.
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PostSubject: Re: Supra State Concept in Fiction   Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:41 pm

I had to read those 2 streams of consciousness twice.

Yes, We dont like people who act irrationally do we.

Having a sibling going through some extreme mental health issues, I entirely understand why.

A good persona to adopt if circumstances, call for it.

Danite, I find cold steel eyed rationallity is nowhere near as unnerving though it does put me on guard.

Sorry cant think of any examples, re fictious supra-state creation.

Just different personal taste. Ben. Door was good.

.
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PostSubject: Re: Supra State Concept in Fiction   Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:56 pm

okay, i'm sure i'm not sharing space with ANY comic book geeks...ahem...but i will say that my mate
who i train with and have known for over 20 years was always the world's biggest GEEK. sleeping on the
sidewalk before a new star-wars film debut, etc...going to star trek conventions. it was, to be blunt, time
for me to do other things when this happened. we fight, and train...then he'd smoke week and read
comic books and i'd hit the weight room, over eat, and get drunk. we were both, in a word, losers--in
one way or another.

but there was this one comic book he had me hooked on--the bastard. did i mention he was the manager
of a geeky comic book store in georgetown at the time, hmmm, i wonder why i didn't scratch Rolling Eyes

it was called...

THE BADGER

the guy's name was norbert sykes. he was a disturbed vietnam vet. and the beginning of the series has him
in the nut ward for multiple personalities. one was the traumatized vet, another was an 11 year old girl who
was scared and cried over some trauma, another was a little boy, the nasty rich twat,and yes...there was
THE BADGER.

the beginnings were awkward. a costume...beating up jay-walkers, etc...he was a martial art/combatives type
to begin with before all the mental ward stuff BTW.

enter HAM, a 500 yr old DRUID wizard--in the same mental institution for claiming to be said wizard. slowly amassing
a fortune whilst stuck in his padded cell, making his incantations and telepathically healing and building norbert
sykes in the next room...to include communicating with him.

in the end, THE BADGER, fights real criminals--just with skills that are honed, and occasionally demons because
of HAM's world.

the best part was that unpredictably, norbert sykes would occasionally be stuck as one of his other less desirable characters,
sniveling in the fetal position in a corner, or whatever. the states on occasion claimed him.


NORBERT SYKES: THE BADGER...probably long out of circulation--a small unknown comic company, about about 3 dozen comics before being discontinued...brought back a wee bit later for it's small following, then presumably dropped again.

probably haven't remembered the facts right but i just saw these three links:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Badger_(comics)

http://www.bloodyredbaron.com/index_files/badgercharacters.htm

http://abouttocharge.wordpress.com/2008/01/03/quite-possibly-the-greatest-superhero-of-all-time/

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PostSubject: Re: Supra State Concept in Fiction   Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:59 pm

Ooo Russ, that comic sounds wicked! I'll have to see if any of my comic book geek friends know anything about it .... Cool

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PostSubject: Re: Supra State Concept in Fiction   Sat Nov 07, 2009 1:40 am

Mate, I will but not tonight... oh OK then
Anyway, Richie, as your Official Hypocrite, I order to you take a massive dose of Thai Magic Mushrooms. A superheroic dose.
Just don't smash anything physical or drink booze. Alright?

I just spent about 2 hours writing and rewriting a reply on the tinfoil hat thread only for it to be lost as I posted it. I hate that my tiny mind needs to remember to save messages as connections to forums when you don't change page for a while often fuck up like that. Anyway I sent a brief bigup to Richie B and a flame there, I don't recall whether I called Danite an idiot or not, no, but I might as well had, and now have an email to type and I must crash soon... both of which i do slowly.

In brief... you know NLP better than me (I had 2 of the duo's books ages ago) and must have quite a bity of familiarity with the various ways of suggestion so I am not sure what i can offer. The trauma based MK stuff is hardly useful to us as we don't want trauma.
The electromagnetic stuff is of interest but not what we are looking for as we we'd like an immediately useful mindset intrinsically effective in combat/sellf-protection.
The effective persona roles are varied, from crazy dangerous to catatonia. Thereby we have many options to slip into. Even catatonia has been successfully used to escape Soviet execution. Don't flinch when they pop the spinal tap in, OK?! That's the life or death test.

My concerns are twofold:

A = How we do we learn to easily access these effective states, what technologies do we need? How much would that cost? Which is most practical and so how must we prioritise resources?.Many questions...

B = The danger of the "evil" personas, at least both in terms of potentially increased immediate risk from 'attracting' trouble and aggravating situations AND the longterm psychological effects. The question of whether the indulgement of these evil characters is worth the boost when maybe there are better confrontation harmonisers than these hyperaggressive roles. It has been my experience that assuming angry roles is harmful to my health and adds to my burdens, however valuable as it surely was in developing me as a fighter. I'd rather be a nice kung fu boy who doesn't say boo unless justice must be fought for but sadly I am a bolshy miserable bastard with a cob on. I just hide it under a veneer of charm like any common psychopath Wink Only joking. But then I would say that, wouldn't I?

I like the Animals to help in the fight. Tiger is my Totem so I have no trouble usually in responding well to a kickoff but that is to the degree, as with everyone, that I am not directed by fear.
Is there a better BodyMindSoul state to be in for repulsion of trouble?
Are there ways of being that don't require anger to intimidate an enemy?

As the kidney energy is lowered by alcohol and other toxins and overstressed adrenals quiver we all might feel weak at the knees when some huge thug threatens to knife us so how do we gets back to a more lively and more survival efficient dynamic of anger, an overheating liver? Spiritually and materially it may be too much of a burden or a risk of calamity to entertain anger yet if it is already sitting there, conscious or unconsciously, then there is no better place I guess than to fuel our SD training with it!

So if we have anger repressed in us and who does not? then we ought to channel it well and/or let it escape. By summoning that dark side one opens a can of worms but the sooner the boil is lanced the better for the Angry Impatient One. Thus instead of harmonising the energy by transduction into infinite frequency love spirit energy we squeeze it into the pressure cooker of our warfighting laboratory to forge our mind souls bodies into a bloody perfect surviving vessel for the Holy Spirit.
Or something like that. You get the idea.
Yet I suspect it would not heal the anger as it would not be released or changed much during training to fire it up and use it to fight fear and enemies. Indeed it may draw bad influences. It is a bit Shar Chi, bad karma. So I am most sceptical of the net worth of bad-assing it.

There is a Anger release Qi Gong that uses a horse stance and slow relaxed punches and an angry face. Hmmmm... not tried it much.

Well, so far lots of questions but few answers.
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PostSubject: Re: Supra State Concept in Fiction   Sat Nov 07, 2009 3:37 am

Damn Russ,

Now I've got to go into my storage and dig out my old issues of the Badger. Oh well who knows what other treasures I'll find.


Keep safe and train hard/smart, Mark H
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PostSubject: Re: Supra State Concept in Fiction   Sat Nov 07, 2009 4:30 am

We had a conversation on here a while back about something related to this ... but lord knows if I can remember where it was.
I think I asked something about if one had to be 'hot' angry/crazy, or if 'cold focus' would be as effective. I remember I was thinking of predators hunting lunch, as per OH's Tiger totem. There is no anger, berzerker or malice in that case, but NO uncertainty about what the intent is either.
I know the tiger probably has no social taboos, so I'm sure there is no inner conflict about killing to eat, but if a supra state can be 'personalized', surely there is scope for imagination? ....Or are there only a few 'characters' that would work - i.e. that a potential attacker would shrink away from?

Another thought - Most of the fictional characters on this thread, not all, get their state 'given' to them by others, to the extent that in many cases their original selves disappear. This doesn't seem to be the model that I would be interested in pursuing. If getting one is psychologically damaging in the long run .... I'm not sure if I want one just for the slight possibility of having to pull it out if I am attacked (which I believe is not that likely). OTOH, I love the idea of tapping into an alternative character that is the one that might almost relish those moments of physical madness. Developing a positive reaction - perhaps righteous indignation and the joy of meting out some justice, might be healthier to the individual if anger does not work? ....Or maybe not ....?
Not really thought this through, but questions breed more questions I guess .... scratch

As another thought, Grossman talks about the rituals traditional tribal cultures have before and after battle ... creating and dissolving the warrior as needed. He compares that with the lack thereof in modern day warfare and it;s connection to PTSD.
The Dog Brothers mimic these ideas to some extent by having the fighters fight at 'The Gathering' - A ritual space in a sense, but what I like about their approach is this idea that the aggression is a completely natural and healthy human state, but it's the context that has been lost. Their idea is to channel aggression into the protection instinct and away from the predatory (human not animal).

PS: OH - Ever practiced the 5 healing sounds? There is one associated with each element/organ/emotion. Interesting stuff.

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PostSubject: Re: Supra State Concept in Fiction   Sat Nov 07, 2009 12:36 pm

Sorry to be off-topic but, O.H...
Quote :

A superheroic dose

Is that not a Terrence Mckenna quote? Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Supra State Concept in Fiction   Sat Nov 07, 2009 1:23 pm

Many law enforcement trainers use this idea of the ritual in their survival training. I have used this concept myself for many years. The idea is that as you are dressing for work (uniform, vest, and duty gear) you try to shift metal gears from all of your issues and distractions of your personal life into a professional mindset focused around officer safety. This also includes doing a check of your various pieces of gear like sidearm, flashlight, cuffs, etc to ensure that they are functioning properly.

By ritualizing this it allows you to shift into your professional persona and remove distractions from your mind while stamping the process of checking your tools.

Keep safe and train hard/smart, Mark H
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